>tfw I realized UBI actually works...

Emberfire
Emberfire

UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME

How it would work:
Every adult citizen is paid a guaranteed amount of $20k annually to be used at their discretion. Almost everybody will use it to cover housing, food, and utility expenses (basic costs of living).
Companies, knowing that everyone is getting an extra non-taxable $20k, uniformly reduces ALL salaries by $23.5k
Overnight, every mid to large company nearly HALVES their wage expenses.
Thus, all these huge companies will suddenly be making A LOT more profit, which the government can then TAX at a higher rate, thus financing the UBI system.

IT ALL WORKS!

Even in the US, it would work:
Every adult gets $20,000
250,000,000 adults in the US
It would cost $5 trillion annually for UBI
Corporate profit is currently about $1.5 trillion annually.
With corporations' wage expenses cut in HALF, you could expect that number to be closer to $7 trillion (manpower is the most expensive thing, period).
Slap a fat 70% tax on corporate profits, and boom, UBI paid for, and the corporations have EXTRA half a trillion in profit that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise (now have $2 trillion versus $1.5 trillion).

YOU CAN'T DEFEAT THIS. THIS IS THE FUTURE.

Other urls found in this thread:

nasdaq.com/symbol/aapl/financials?query=income-statement
fortune.com/2016/11/08/china-automation-jobs/
money.cnn.com/2015/05/18/luxury/flying-cars-aeromobil/
kron4.com/2015/09/01/video-fully-automated-fast-food-restaurant-opens-in-san-francisco/
youtube.com/watch?v=cyxxE1AcUSM

Flameblow
Flameblow

rent now costs $40k annually

RumChicken
RumChicken

No one would pay it. They would just live in NEET vans.

StonedTime
StonedTime

less people working because why work with UBI
companies, in order to attract workers, decrease wages
???

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

Corporations leave countries that raise corporate taxes. Due to technology their ability to do so is becoming easier.

It's not implementable now or in the near future, yet an automation revolution will bring it.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

food now costs $40k annually

JunkTop
JunkTop

communism, by a different name.

but..but my communism will work this time

BunnyJinx
BunnyJinx

(manpower is the most expensive thing, period)
Wrong, the largest expense on the majority of income statements for firms within the US is cost of good sold (production costs).

Use this for example (i know it's a tech company but bare with me):
nasdaq.com/symbol/aapl/financials?query=income-statement

That is the I/S for Apple. Look under the section titled "Operating Expenses" and then look at SGA (selling, general, and admin.) which is where the Wage Expense lies within the income statement. Cut that in half and Operating Income only goes up by $7bn.
Now look at Gross Profit. This is what corporations pay corporate taxes on. It is just the difference in Revenues and SGA. The wage expenses aren't subtracted from until Operating Expenses are taken out so a deduction in wage expenses for firms would not yield a higher amount of taxes paid by said firms.
You would have to somehow reduce COGS (costs of production of goods that are sold) if you wanted to increase the amount of corporate taxes paid. So you're argument doesn't really make sense.

I hope that was easy to understand. I can explain with a different company if Apple is not making sense to you since they are a tech company and what not. Good thinking though!

StrangeWizard
StrangeWizard

i don't understand how supply and demand works

this is all based on an assumption that companies would cut wages in response. again,
what is supply and demand
wages are set by the labor market, not by the company directly. the company has a choice to pay market wages or shut down. even if every company in the country cuts wages, they will rise back up in profitable industries as companies try to poach workers from one another.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

not knowing that production-related labor is categorized under COGS

What shitskin university did you go to faggot? Try learning the basics of managerial accounting before sounding off.

Also, Rev - SG&A =/= taxable income, fucktard.

Illusionz
Illusionz

Apple produces their products overseas so production related labor would be minimal within COGS and wouldn't matter anyways because the labor is overseas (mostly in China) so the suggested UBI in the US wouldn't effect it.
To your second point, yes it does. Corporations pay corporate taxes on Gross Profit which is (basically) just COGS subtracted from Revenues. Every text book, professor, and person who actually works within accounting will tell you this is true. Please explain how you think this is wrong?

Fried_Sushi
Fried_Sushi

Can you even name any larger firms that are US-based that produce their own products and own their own factories that produce said products that are also located within the US? That would be who your suggested UBI funding would come from. Not the entirety of US corporations.

takes2long
takes2long

Grow it.

askme
askme

You really shouldn't post pictures of yourself on the internet.

Inmate
Inmate

Lets do some basic math.

Lets assume for the sake of numbers that all salaries are 100k, with the amount of people in the economy matching the corporate profit projection of 1.5 trillion.

The methodology here is so we retain a workforce of the same size, without a loss of worker engagement (people earning 18k a year for example, are simply going to quit their jobs).

Reducing wages by 23.5k is unlikely to begin with, workforces will create unions against such drastic reduction in wages, so lets assume best case scenario it's reduced by 20k, meaning 1/5th of wages are effectively subsidised from the employment pool, meaning taxes gathered are effectively circulating indefinitely (to keep the UBI working, it needs to either stimulate growth at a higher rate or have a zero sum effect).

This means in effect 20% more profit, baseline, for all companies, which could improve growth, but the problem is that no market remains perpetually in an upwards swing. UBI also works under the assumption that taxation increases doesn't make corporations take their money overseas to avoid paying said tax.

In short, it's a terrible idea long term, but could stimulate growth in the short term.

Methnerd
Methnerd

Watch out man, OP may mouth off and call you a faggot then question what university you went to despite the fact that he legitimately thought a universal basic income based solely on a 70% corporate tax rate would be feasible. This is clearly a highly intelligent individual that definitely doesn't have weapons-grade autism and eats chicken tenders for every meal.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

Companies, knowing that everyone is getting an extra non-taxable $20k, uniformly reduces ALL salaries by $23.5k

Yeah cool i'll just go to work 40 hours a week for an extra $8k a year. Sounds like a great deal.

askme
askme

Companies, knowing that everyone is getting an extra non-taxable $20k, uniformly reduces ALL salaries by $23.5k
so everyone quits?

lmfao genius idea.

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Read this OP

p1
p2

And to summarize it all, if you look very closely, you'll realize that this proposal is basically an indirect massive subsidy to the financial sector of the nation. This is probably the only proposal where you can dump such insane amounts of capital into banks (via your supposed "insurance" of the loans) and have the poorest of the poor cheer you for it. You can even forget about it being an UBI proposal, think of it as subsidizing your financial sector into outcompeting everyone else, worldwide. It's flawless.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

The US needs some high inflation to correct the debt. They will most likely do it through healthcare though.

Evil_kitten
Evil_kitten

More companies would offshore their money .

One of the reasons for keeping a lot of dollars in the US is to pay for workforce costs, pensions etc

You would find that suddenly the licencec fee that Offshore Inc in Panama demand increase significantly and these large multinationals decide that they HAVE to pay them...

Im a landlord and I would definitely hike up my rent massively to cover it.

viagrandad
viagrandad

You also called it UNIVERSAL basic income.

What about someone thats severely disabled., quadriplegic for example, and requires say $50k a year to cover their care costs. Do they get extra?

Suddenly its not universal. Then the public decide that single mothers deserve extra and a politician gives it in exchange for votes. Then its decided that young people without families need less so its cut to $10k for people under 30 still in education or living with their parents.....

askme
askme

So, UBI Money grows on trees then?

PackManBrainlure
PackManBrainlure

Nigga you fuckin retarded. Paper currency has no intrinsic value and hence schemes like this just redistribute. The reason you didn't show your work for your absurdly specific mathematical claims is that a. you can't know everything happening and b. one thing you can know is that your argument is fucking impossible. A policy that does not increase the amount of goods or services in the economy cannot be a ceteris paribus benefit.

Skullbone
Skullbone

Wow Mr. Marx that's a great idea! You should write a manifesto.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

So who would work shit tier jobs if they already have enough money to live?

eGremlin
eGremlin

It's hilarious how the only way these marxists can make UBI work is by somehow instantly removing and adding extremely complex laws and then only running it in the most ideal and perfect scenario.

Can't wait till you start seeing Canada and the Nordic countries getting cucked by all the refugees and lazy fucks as they pay out 60% of their income in taxes only to realize they're getting a negative ROI.

BinaryMan
BinaryMan

UBI is not needed in a free market as the price of goods and services will keep dropping as less human capital is needed. Deflation was the norm before the federal reserve began counterfeiting.

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

$15/hr fulltime would be about $30K/yr
would I have to wait for a year-end check from the government? Live off $10k/yr instead now until the gov't mailed out checks?

Would this give my employer another reason to cut my hours?

Another reason to keep my status at part-time?
now everything costs more rly?
how about no fuck off

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

70% tax on corporate profits
Jesus dude, you were a bit nutty but right here is where you went off the deep end.

Inmate
Inmate

Wouldn't everyone getting $20k for free result in mass-inflation until prices are equal to having all that extra cash in the economy?
Why would anyone work when two people can get married and make $40k a year for just existing?

Skullbone
Skullbone

ubi shills don't think this far ahead

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

This is one of my big problems with UBI. Start that shit and the largest single driver of inflation would be UBI.

But don't worry, just raise UBI!

Uh oh, inflation is coming up for SOME REASON. Better raise UBI!

It's like bidding against yourself at an auction.

SniperWish
SniperWish

Slap a fat 70% tax on corporate profits
Wow, there's an incentive.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

Eh.

fortune.com/2016/11/08/china-automation-jobs/

Its not China or other nations taking our jobs. Its automation.

Just mulling over videos about synapse microchips being made. Only 10 years before simulating human brain affordable.

Really now.

If you don't lay the foundation for UBI now, you will enjoy the rest of your lives in an unemployment camp guarded by robots. Maybe they will give you an Obama phone with some free wifi, but I'd rather not live like that.

Get over the fact that humans have to work or starve otherwise you will be starving when a machine comes to take your job by 2027.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

how would companies benefit from this? who would wageslave at mcdonalds, gas stations, restaraunts, supermarkets, etc?

RumChicken
RumChicken

Once they 100% automate their work force, they need money to pay for the robots.

If they have no customers, then well...

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

okay, but you and this dude are talking about flying cars.

that isnt going to happen for some time. how do you automate a bartender? gonna give me a vending machine?

my local CVS is pretty much fully automated, in the sense that they installed 5 self check-out registers, but they still have some lady stand over daily like a hawk. saving money on having less cashiers for sure, but...

hell even those McDonalds auto-matic ordering machines. I've used em, you print out a receipt, take it to the cashier and pay at the cashier. you still have the cashier, other cashier, cooks, manager, etc/full staff.

so....

eGremlin
eGremlin

money.cnn.com/2015/05/18/luxury/flying-cars-aeromobil/

Do you even read the news?

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

It wouldn't be farfetched to restructure the kitchen so that it all robots. Then you press the touch screen. The robots do their thing and push the food through a door so people don't walk into the back and get mauled by the robots.

Even that. Synthetic brain is going to be a thing by 2027.

Most car manufactures are auiming for full autonomous cars by 2025. What will the 6 million truck and taxi car drivers do?

This shit is coming? If you would read the science papers coming out of what they accomplished. There has been more advancement in AI in the past 3 years than the past 30 years.

And yes. Billions are being poured into automation.

Read the links about the jobs being lost to automation not China.

New_Cliche
New_Cliche

kron4.com/2015/09/01/video-fully-automated-fast-food-restaurant-opens-in-san-francisco/

Spazyfool
Spazyfool

Wouldn't work
Just watch this

youtube.com/watch?v=cyxxE1AcUSM

Stark_Naked
Stark_Naked

Misses the part where the beer would be made with a very small amount of human labor, allowing the bar to provide beer for everyone. The people who helped make the beer would get more of those coupons.

Raving_Cute
Raving_Cute

Beer made by robots.

Booteefool
Booteefool

or how about housing and utilities are free and there's a monthly stipend for food? Naturally, within a certain amount.
That's a lot less and would be much better for people.
That takes case all of the basic necessities.
No, I couldn't care less about rent seekers.

askme
askme

How about.
Abolish minimum wage
Abolish unemployment benefits.
Give everyone 24k per year, untaxed. 2k per month.
Slash military spending.
Slash social security for people that aren't disabled, have child benefits or retired.
Cut sales tax.
Cut property tax.

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

As a liberal high school drop out, I fully support UBI.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

As a liberal high school drop out, I fully support UBI.

Snarelure
Snarelure

exactly. if the real issue is about people not being able to survive why do they need money they can do what they want with? there should be universal shelter and universal food at the basic level for individuals over a certain age, and for families under a certain size, and thats it.

CouchChiller
CouchChiller

there should be universal shelter and universal food at the basic level for individuals

Why do you Americans insist on breeding rats who will just die off anyways?

You white people are fucking perverse & sick...

FastChef
FastChef

Why do you Americans insist on breeding rats who will just die off anyways?
You white people are fucking perverse & sick...

White people are some vainglorious, self aggrandizing people.

Supergrass
Supergrass

grow enough food to sustain ones self whilst living in a NEET van.

Hmmm

Spamalot
Spamalot

because if its one or the other, dont give people money to spend on whatever they want when they dont deserve it, and punish people that have too many children i.e. all the shitskins.

good job replying to yourself bud, we have ids on the board, welcome.

SomethingNew
SomethingNew

kek

hFj7+i4G blown the FUCK out

w8t4u
w8t4u

As a liberal high school drop out, I fully support UBI.

wonder how many people even realize what the GAO is without googling...

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

Stop illegal workers and outsourcing
Stop welfare system
Reduce corporate taxes and increase sales tax
Double the minimum wage

I think this is the only way to incentivize the ambitious and the lazy alike. Only wannabe slave owners and welfare queens would be pissed at this. Housing costs would see a spike, but still be more affordable to the average worker bee.

Fuzzy_Logic
Fuzzy_Logic

2080? That's a bit naive thinking our economy will work the same by then.

Damn by 2040 we will all be out of jobs due to intelligent robots.

Stupidasole
Stupidasole

Most jobs lost in the past years was due to automation not because of the reasons you listed.

eGremlin
eGremlin

You can't slash the military budget.
The only reason the US is a superpower is because they beat and bully anyone and everyone who disagrees with them. If you believe in 'muh terrorism' 'muh fundamental islam is a threat' and don't see the real power dynamics, your not very bright and don't understand the world.

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