Its offical KDM is better than JDM

i dont think their engines are quite good yet. youre getting mitsubishi tier engines in toyota chassis quality but with volkswagen interior build

So its more boring and oval like most modern european cars.

its not polarizing

>mitsubishi tier engines
Fitting, Hyundai learned a lot from Mitsubishi during their early years. They even licensed Mitsubishi engine designs.

Kia had a recall on the 2.0 in the optima for potential metal shavings form the factory, but most of the cars recalled were not affected; they only needed to be inspected.

what else makes you say they aren't that good? in each class they have similar power and fuel efficiency to the competition.

I know a warranty isn't the same as a quality part, but it also bears mentioning that they have the best warranty

3.3 v6 are ticking time bombs

are you referring the first gen (lambda 1) that stopped in 09, or the current generation (lambda 2)? I'm not familiar with the v6's issues

both

I have to disagree. At 21k the elantra sport packs 200 horses. Mind you this is not alot but for 21k you are getting a sunroof/"leather" tuned exhaust, good rear end a dct or manual etc etc. ALL FOR 21K...I think they have made it.

Name one (1) Korean car capable of over 200mph.

Extra easy mode it can be a race car.

I'm not finding much on widespread problems with these. What problems have you seen, and do you know how frequently vehicles were affected?

I can name more performance cars that wont do 200. What is your point

disagree with what? I said they were great value and at least comparable quality.

Also, no one pays MSRP for a korean car

>belobster

No self respecting hatch boi would ever drive that trash

responded to wrong post.

So get an Elantra GT.

>Japanese auto makers stopped making interesting cars a long time ago.
What the fuck are the
>GT86 twins
>ND Miata
>WRX / STI
>CTR
>370Z
What then?
The Genesis line is awful and you know it.
Import tuning was never about new cars anyway...
The gen1 Lexus IS300 & LS400, and the Toyota Cressida are still the best rwd import tuner sedans...

>same reliability
bullshit. Now I can't speak for cars 100% but with motorcycles, there are Korean brands like Daelim and Hyosung that literally copy japanese bikes from Honda and Suzuki respectively. As in, they license the tech and blueprints and just change optics like headlights and fairings, then source the materials themselves and assemble them in Korea.

2012 Hyosung bikes already have rusted through gas tanks (bike tanks cost a fortune) I have never seen any of those shitbikes go 50000km without swapping out the engine. Various electrical gremlins abound even on the higher end models. ABS going full retard. My old Daelim started leaking from its head gasket and had the alternator go out at like 15000km.

Meanwhile my 94 Honda is like fucking new, considering It's been treated well. Nice paint. Seat didn't tear. No rust.

Considering the 1000 bucks more at most spent at purchase, the machine will last you much longer down the line.

Especially when it comes to proper assembly and using proper materials e.g. properly galvanized steel instead of shitty passivied cheapo shit, every cent more you pay will come back to you five times over compared to the hassle of owning a korean vehicle.

Don't get me wrong - they look nice and they're attractively priced, but it's not worth the headaches and the massive drops in value on used koreans only reflect that.

>not worth the headache
less of a headache than most other brands

>massive drop in value
I haven't seen evidence of this one way or the other, but I do know that you'll pay 15% less for the korean car up front

>gt86
Basically a corolla that is rwd and literally created to suck in ae fangirls
>md miat
STOP CALLING THE MIATA A SPORTS CAR
Its literally the idea of a sports car...packaged into a tiny package..its modeled after British sports car
>wrx /sti
is shit now. Hence the topic of this thread
>ctr
ctr as in the ruf ctr? or the civic type r which I have seen going for WELL above the msr. 90 percent of the time you can buy a decent bmw with the money they are asking
>370z
Literally cant disagree...I like it..but i dont love it.

The is300 is bleh. Toyota couldn't even muster up the energy to tune the exhaust instead putting speakers to make vroom vroom sounds

>stop calling the miata a sports car, because it's a sports car

user what

I see Hyundais in my local dealer go for around 10-15 for 3 year old cars. If what your saying its true that seems about normal depreciation. lets say the car is 21 or so and - the 15 percent you are saying that comes down to 18k the cars are usually 3-4 years old so the 10-15 k margin looks around right.

Rather than argue explain to us why you think its a sports car

I would like to understand what you are saying but it is difficult to do so from your wording.

Also, one dealership isn't the best sample size.

Looking at the depreciation curves, comparing to honda, hyundais take an intial hit in resale value, but I think that is because the MSRP is inflated; no one pays MSRP for a hyundai. I got my elantra for $14,000, MSRP in this region was $18,500.

By the 5 year mark, there is only a 5% difference in depreciation

I think what differentiates Hyundai from the pack is that they do produce steel in house. They must save a SHIT TON of money doing shit like that.

Vertically integrating your supply chain generally does save money.

I will say though that the profit in the raw materials industry is pretty slim (I used to work in the Material wing for ThyssenKrupp)

Mind you them probably also save with shipping via hyundai glovis

but as a korean company theyre not trying to become the new toyota or honda, theyre trying to fool car buyers into believing their cars will be just as reliable but really dont give a shit once the warranty runs out so theyre only engineered to last within warranty.

And not distinct in the slightest, hell even VAG has better lines.

Essentially they can build and get you a quality car and literally slash out the competition without outsourcing too much

toyota and honda dont need to offer the best warranties because their engines and drivetrains for the most part are engineered to outlast the car itself. hyundai always offered value as an incentive to get people to buy them, then through in the longest warranty, then styling, now its tech. id still rather have a stripper model toyota or honda over a hyundai or kia with more features

>us

There's more than 1 retard in this thread?

>theyre trying to fool car buyers into believing their cars will be just as reliable

except these cars are more reliable, statistically, see >really dont give a shit once the warranty runs out so theyre only engineered to last within warranty

kia (who is owned by hyundai) extended the warranties of cars with the 2.0 engine an additional 20% -and- offered it to second+ owners (the 100k warranty is normally only valid for the first owner, second owners get 5/60k powertrain, similar to most warranties in the industry)

care to back up your claims with some reliability data?

that doesnt prove reliability. thats just problems per vehicle and most of those are from idiots that dont know how to use their infotainment systems or have driving aides that make them brake because the car thinks theyre about to crash but really its because theyre stupid and not paying attention to the road but facetiming with some idiot while driving then give a negative survey to jd powers to feel vindicated for being stupid

ok, you don't like my chart. wheres your data?

how about the used toyotas and hondas still on the road or for sale compared to hyundai or kia

This is literally just due to better branding. Toyota buyers/ Honda buyers are brand loyal. Hyundai has been in America for about the same amount of time and has seen about the same quality progression. People ignore them in favor of toyotas and hondas. Mind you Honda and toyota are not without flaws...but they keep buyers coming. I see more toyota/honda commercials than hyundai...etc etc. I see tons of old hyundais on the road so IDK what you are talking about

how about them. what % of cars sold here from those makes are still on the road? what have their maintenance costs been?

If you're going to tell me a 96 civic is more reliable than a 96 accent, sure. But we're discussing how reliable the brand is now

where i live everyone bought the 3rd gen sonatas and 2nd gen elantras when they came out. they were more common than civics or accords and camrys and corollas. none of them are left on the road now and barely anyone still buys the sonata or elantras. 2g optimas were quite popular as were fortes but even the newest ones arent selling as well. the souls sell but the 1st gens never did here

sorrentos sold well but theyre gone for the most part might see one or two still driving around the new ones arent even selling. 2g tuscons are gone. the hyundais from the era when they were a laughing stock are still more common on the roads then these so called reliable hyundais

You do know that sometimes people lease cars. It seems like the majority of them leased.

then hyundai built them to be disposable. toyota or honda never rely on leasing to boost sales numbers

I meant in your case. Where I am people usually buy. I still see 7 year old sonatas/elantras a few old santa fe etc etc

you must live in a very interesting area. For every elantra and sonata sold there were 10 accords, camries, civics, and corollas. (oldest data I can find is 2002, it was certainly more stacked towards japan in 1996)

also
>3rd gen
you mean back in 1996? yes, honda's were more reliable back then. The assertion is that Hyundai and Kia are -now- in the position that the japanese auto makers were back in the 90's; just as reliable, much cheaper, way better value, but they dont have the brand name, see

>then hyundai built them to be disposable

claimed more than once in this thread, 0 data to show this is true

i live in the deep south where im a hour away from the factory that builds the sonata and half an hour from the one that builds the optima and sorrento

For the record turbo cars mess with the reliability of all auto makers. They haven't quite worked out the kinks yet. This means Honda Hyundai etc etc. They cost slightly more to own

It literally seems like they are just buying new cars because of incentives. Assuming a shit ton of people who bought them work there. also larger distances between places means more miles. What you are saying makes perfect sense .

yet the civics camrys accords and corollas are still on the roads

that does sound like an interesting area to live indeed. but do you have any data on how many are still on the road, or just how many you personally see?

Your not looking at the demographic of buyers. Honda toyota buyers literally run the shit out of the cars. They keep them for 10 years because
"muh honda will go for 200k"

a lot of the korean executives from the factory only drive japanese and german cars that should tell you something

as are the sonatas and elantras

hyundais are driven to the ground here too but nothing newer than 2006 has lasted that long

facts show me
This means nothing

go on autotrader or a used car site

You cant be serious.
What the hell would this prove?

the 2006 refreshes were when hyundai really started nailing the quality. I see 06-07 sonata's everywhere, and the dealership wouldn't stop begging me to buy mine back

got any data on 06+ reliability?

meanwhile in burgerland
>affordable fiesta st (rip)
>practicle focus st/rs
>mustang/camaro rivalry at its best
>corvette (need i say more?)
>a ford performance pickup truck lmao
feels good to be free

europe gets everything too they have camaros mustangs corvettes. you can buy raptors too from importers

>2006 to 2016 hondas within 100 miles
1508

>2006 to 2016 hyundais within 100 miles
>1015

hyundais are apparently 60% more reliable than hondas

(honda sells ~2.5 cars for each hyundai in the U.S.)

ok Ill play along

>06-2016 Hyundai cars within 100 miles
>4902

>06-2016 Honda cars within 100 miles
>9,924

Yeah Honda is clearly the better choice with 5,000 more owners opting to sell the cars back.

>25% more hyundais still on the road

looks like hyundai is more reliable in your area too

who would have thought. Even if Honda sells more cars a shit ton of them are ending up right back at the lot.

I live in the Florida Panhandle and I see a ton of Kias and Hyundai's as well. Whole lotta Optimas and Santa Fe's. Nissan is really big here too, they're just as popular as Honda and Toyota.

The only "American" vehicles down here are full sized trucks and SUV's, Camaros and Mustangs, and half the black population driving Dodge Charger. Nobody drives American sedans or crossovers down here.

Visiting Michigan for the first time was so weird, non big 3 cars actually stick out from the rest u there.

yeah the midwest is like the 90s as far as cars. no asian cars maybe german cars but people hate you if youre in a toyota or a honda unless you have out of state plates

so basically most cars made after the mid 2000s. yo do realize that a warranty is basically the maker betting you right? they're betting you it will go as long/far as they say or they'll fix it for free, so Hyundai betting you that anything that isn't a wear item won't break for 5y or 60k and that the drivetrain won't break for 10y or 100k. that's still a hell of a lot better bet that Chevy or bmw or whatever betting the drivetrain will only go 5y/60k and everything else will only go 3y/36k.

dont care. dodge pulled the 10 year warranty crap too same with mitsubishi

90s? More like 70s. 80s is when the nip brands really picked up steam.

Or I could get a Civic EX-T Manual with all the same features as the Hyundai and more, and 174hp and 200lbs lighter for $300 less than the Hyundai OR I could get a Civic Hatchback Sport Manual with 180hp, 200lbs lighter and a more sporty ride for $500 less.

except both of those are shit.

Best selling compact car in the US vs 1 autismo who likes gook cars. This is a real toughie.

Think about what you are saying.
>The best sell is really the best.

Think about that for a second. THEN answer this
>Is it really the best choice
or
>Are people preventing it to be the best choice

It really is the best. The styling might be a hit or miss but god damn did honda get the driving dynamics right, it's comfortable, quiet, feature packed, honda reliable, it's the full package. The Elantra sport? Entire car is just a miss. The Honda will also hold it's value. And also, Hyundai DCTs are the worse, drove a veloster turbo with one, just god awful. CVTs are better than that shit.

The MPG in the Honda is also significantly better.

I have to disagree. I got the opposite of what you are saying with the Honda. It felt cheap.

The Hyundai sport was extremely nice to drive the honda felt like a rental car

Well, you clearly haven't sat in it. Not a single review or person says it feels cheap.

The Hyundai IS a rental car. I will give them another shot in a few decades. But I don't see it happening then either.

I have. Not only did it feel cheap honda needs to work on the shit seats they have been pumping out since forever..Also the same can be said about you. Have you actually driven a ES? or is your only marking point a velsoter? Two WAY different cars.

I have driven the non-sport Elantra with DCT. It wasn't that great. Honda seats are the worst I will agree with you there. But there are no complaints about the Civic anywhere. While there are tons about the Elantra, especially in driving feel. The steering has too much power assist and the manual shifter has no feel to it.

the sport is a different planet. Bro honestly check it out. I used to be a huge honda fanboy and still am to an extend but the ES blows the civic out of the water...even the si...yep I said it.

youtube.com/watch?v=tGaE_y348no

Here is an in depth review of it if you cant locate one.

extent*

that same guy said he likes the new civic si better

its a great car by all means but I would personally choose the Honda, and I'm not even a Honda fanboy.

Not me, I personally am kinda disappointed with the new SI.

Almost. Recent Nissan and Toyota offerings in affordable categories have gone to shit and Honda is well on it's way to becoming shit. Mazda and Subaru still make some awesome stuff though.

Gookland cars are currently some of the best bang for the buck and have insane warranties while remaining amongst the cheapest in the class. They're also giving us cheap RWD cars soon with the Stinger and slightly pricier G70.

Japanese cars have gone to the dogs. I recently bought an hrv as my first car. I figured I would save myself the headache of buying a turbo car from Honda ( who has no buisness making turbo cars). The hrv is ok but Its literally the only respectable Honda being made right now....before you rag on me...trust me...it literally pains me to say that...but shit its true. I test drove a civic sedan and it felt like it was a small car trapped in a big car the way it handled. Would have bought it if it were decent. The hrv is exactly what it looks like...a bubbly fit...bigger tires bigger engine (same as old civic). BUT HOLY SHIT....the seats are like sitting in a chair made to bother you. I mention this because I saw it earlier in the thread.

To elaborate on my opinion and rational buying an hrv. Im 25, need a car that will literally eat it via NE winters potholes and tight as fuck parking for odd hours that I hold during my first career job. It needed to be small but not tiny, good on gas and whatever. Its definitely not a looker but its goofy looking so I like it.
Its really the only car that has "honda sensibility" being made by honda currently. At the end of the day its a car and im blessed to be able to afford one...nothing is forever and car numero dos will definitely be a fun one . Oddly enough my insurance is still sky high.

You nailed it. The HR-V is the last currently produced Honda that feels like a proper Honda. The new Civic feels too long and wide for it's powertrain. It's like it tried to mimick the comfort and space for cheap deal that Nissan pulled off with the Sentra but it doesn't quite work because it's still uncomfortable to attain some level of sportiness but it's too bulky to be truly sporty. Honda seats have always been uncomfortable. I used to do Uber for 7 hours a day in a CR-V way back when Uber was a profitable income source and I was always sore and miserable at the end of the day. They're flat, stiff and and unsupportive yet still have weird bulges in places where there should be no intrusion. Like they contracted a supplier who's never made auto seats to design a sport seat.

I don't see the point in getting a Civic anymore. They're not reliable like they used to be and they're an awkward compromise. Either get something fun like a Mazda 3 or just jump into a more comfortable roomy car like a Fusion, which you can actually get for the same price due to no "Japanese reliability" tax.