Manual - HOW?!

Learn to fucking rev match. You're not describing engine braking, you're describing clutch drag.

Jesus, fucking take a few lessons from an instructor, you clearly need someone to spoon feed you, it might as well be people being paid not to troll you.

The answer is assessing your situation in advance.
See traffic lights ahead, know you are going to a complete stop? Gently brake without using the clutch, downshift, blip the throttle so the revs match the gear, continue braking until you're going a speed appropriate for braking while holding the clutch down. (under 25kmh, so speed you get in 2nd gear at low revs.)
The idea is that you brake as much as possible while still being fully in gear.

In normal city/suburban driving you rarely need to downshift more than once, although you may need to downshift 2 gears in one go. I suggest if you haven't learned how to 'block change' (shift more than one gear at a time, eg. 1st to 3rd, 2nd to 4th, 5th to 3rd etc.) that you urgently get lessons.

>the rev match meme

i've never rev matched and never had a problem downshifting smoothly with the brakes only.

it seems being taught in a manual from day one is superior, instead of teaching yourself which forces amerifats to believe the meme after dealing with automatic for so long.

Never take your car out if gear, and never coast, it'll fuck your tranny up.
t.Truckerfag

Agreeing with the downshift with rev matching or stay in gear when slowing down.

If you are braking, you can also downshift at the same time. I used to never do this in my old car but now I do it. You can just downshift without rev matching but I actually just heel-toe to rev match, its really easy to do with my BMW pedals and makes driving more fun.

Dude I learn to drive on a manual and have never owned an automatic, yet I always revmatch so that the clutch and gearbox don't get too much wear.

Daily manual sportscar
>coast or not to coast
preferrably never coast unless its stop and go traffic where you just start off slowly in first gear, then neutral and slowly creep up behind the first car that frantically starts and stops every 2 feet. Basic driving shit, when in a traffic jam its better to slowly coast at 2kph than to accelarate to 10kph and then stop 2 ft later.

>roundabouts
Downshift, engine brake, downshift, engine brake until you're clear to go then slam that gas and go round it at the limit of grip.

>corners
signal in, downshift, engine brake, heeltoe to correct gear while braking and then just before turn in get on the gas keep it steady and after apex give it more gas. Slow in fast out.

>when do i keep clutch depressed?
As little as possible. Only when you coming up to a give way sign and want to make it sure it's easier to downshift to first/ second creep up to see if you can join the road or you have to stop and give way, in which case switch to neutral unless its like 1 car really close by.

I double clutch every gear because fuck you thats why.

>I suggest if you haven't learned how to 'block change' (shift more than one gear at a time, eg. 1st to 3rd, 2nd to 4th, 5th to 3rd etc.) that you urgently get lessons.

I don't have any other issue with driving. See above how the other cars I drove/have don't have this layout and don't share this problem.

The car I have issue with (new Ford car) has full granny-tier electric throttle and everything so you could heel-toe to hell and back and it would not do jackshit. To even go up on a hill or to launch yourself you have to like kick a fucking hole on the floor. Shit's ridiculous. There is zero feedback on your actual input, it just tries to smooth everything to hell. And I don't even know why, like my Suzuki that has simple wire - you can feel every bit of touch you do and it's great. So ...why?

You've clearly never driven anything other than an economy shitbox.
Rev matching is important for smooth gear changes in normal driving, with performance vehicles you'll torque steer yourself into a wall or you'll wear out your clutch faster than your country is filling up with refugees.

>cruising in fourth
>want to take a right turn onto side street

I can't image not rev matching and still making it smooth.

I usually start braking and then heel-toe to second. Or I just downshift to second and then brake as needed.

Coast everywhere who gives a fuck

For starters, depressing the clutch for the last 30m will not kill your throwout bearing. Keeping it depressed at long stops will give it some added wear.
If you think you'll have to stop, clutch in+brake at the appropriate stopping distance for your speed
if you think you're going to be able to not stop then go down the box to the appropriate gear either block changing+big throttle blip or going down a gear at a time with smaller blips

Just revmatch or double clutch numbnuts, then there is no giant shock from downshifting.

Double declutching has nothing to do with smooth changing, that's rev matching.
Double declutching manually spins the input shaft so you aren't using the synchromesh

Either the engine starts to stutter due to low rpm (and it still bites), or you double clutch. But I wrote these above a few times.

Double would mean I would add throttle each time I go into 2nd. Which seems excessive and a MAJOR PAIN when the ECU/electronics are soooo slow.

they don't anyway because this isn't pre-war farm machinery we're driving you fucking moron

>The idea is that you brake as much as possible while still being fully in gear.

Why the fuck do people do this? If you know you're approaching a stop? Why not get OUT of gear as early as possible and coast as far as you can? Why put more wear on your engine rather than putting the tiniest bit more wear on your $20 brake pads?

Seriously, what the fuck is the point of downshifting and and staying in gear if you know you're approaching a complete stop

>in normal driving

public roads aren't race tracks and none of us are driving racing cars and modern clutches are built to last unless you're an incredibly shit driver riding it all day long.

Because it doesn't wear the engine like at all. Just don't go crazy high rpm when cold.
>what's the point
Getting going again right away from a stop sign?

You going from 3rd to 2nd, and you're losing too many revs in the shift and it's throwing you around? Is that the issue?

Think of how you upshift.
Revs go high, you change gear, revs drop in new gear.

In reverse, revs dropping, shift gear, revs SHOULD jump up again. Only some cars compensate for retard drivers and automatically increase the revs for you. YOU need to do that manually. Half kick the throttle down (it's called blipping the throttle, but depending on the cars pedals you might need to go further than what others consider blipping) while the clutch is fully down, quickly shift to the lower gear.

What part of revmatching us supposed to be performance oriented?

You're a shit driver for 1 of 2 reasons, perhaps both.

a) You slow down too much in normal traffic and make huge gaps because you can't shift smoothly
or the more likely scenario
b) You're a fucking retard who grinds the clutch into dust and thinks he's engine braking

Modern clutches are built to withstand a fair amount of clutch-riding, not a deliberate attempt to grind it down.

if you're speeding and then hard on the brakes at every bend on normal roads and that's your justification for rev-matching then you are a mongoloid

>Because it doesn't wear the engine like at all.
your engine revs higher than it would in idle, which it does while coasting. Even if this wear is negligible, it does wear our your clutch constantly downshifting while approaching stops. I don't understand why people choose to wear their engine and transmission by downshiting to stops rather than just coasting and breaking

>Getting going again right away from a stop sign?
You can shift into first as you're stopping or just after.... you don't have to downshift all the way into first as you approach

i can shift smoothly without revmatching

deal with it, cletus.

You don't need to double declutch at all. Say you're approaching a roundabout in 4th at 40mph. You should gradually slow down from just over 50 yards away and downshift into 3rd, while observing traffic on the roundabout. If you decide you need to stop, brake and put the clutch in at about 20mph. If you don't need to stop, still slow down to about 15-20 and go through the roundabout after rev matching into 2nd. At that speed you'll only need a small blip

ITT: Autism over irrelevant shit.

Just drive the fucking car

Yeah but with this shit layout I start to slow down to a roundabout in 3rd already. Then there is a car coming in, does not signal (as usual), so I still roll in 3rd. The car leaves the roundabout, so I can go. At this point pressing the gas in 3rd does fuck nothing, and if I just switch to 2nd it bites my fucking ass. Most of the time I can only clutch in, break, switch into 2nd BUT AT THIS POINT SOME FUCKER SHOWS UP ALREADY and I just have to stop anyway. Not a tragedy of course, just you know, annoying. I want to get better, because why not?

So.. that's basically the situation where it all started. As I said above the Transit and Suzuki are both happy in 3rd at this point. But this fucking Ford...

> I never want to get better
That's some nice attitude son.

>On highway, some kind of accident
>Car coming to a stop, speed relatively low, still in gear but put the clutch down
>Out of the corner of my eye I notice a truck in my rear view mirror hasn't slowed down behind me and is going to rear end me at speed
>Rev up, mount my car on the curb, against a dividing wall or in the emergency lane and avoid death (truck drivers never, ever bail off the road because it's more dangerous for the drivers, they would rather kill people by hitting the brakes and going straight into the backs of cars to slow down.)

That's part of it, the other part is that you can maintain traffic flow properly by being in the gear appropriate for your speed.

>See a red light, only 2 cars in the lane ahead
>Slow down considerably
>Light turns green, cars start moving again, you close the gap between the cars and smoothly accelerate with traffic (instead of frantically figuring out what speed is appropriate for the gear, every second you're in neutral you're slowing down and holding up traffic behind you

tl;dr you're a selfish piece of shit who prioritises fuel over efficient driving, and you can't even get that right - If you're in traffic for 10 minutes longer than other cars, are you really saving fuel?

>instead of frantically figuring out what speed is appropriate for the gear,
But you know what gear is appropriate to which speed... I mean you learn that in a few times of driving, in a few hours max. Unless you drive a fleet of cars, that should never be an issue.

The best approach is to get a car with a flappy paddle gearbox desu

Or an E-CVT, yeah, but only premium cars have proper engines here for that. Can't really afford a Lexus at the moment.

I think basic reading comprehension is a little beyond you. You're in no position to be throwing ad hominem around.

You're either slowing down traffic because you have to slow down to an appropriate gear for your speed, or you're crushing your clutch into oblivion, or you're coasting around in neutral like the dribbling retard you've chosen to represent your likeness.

>Light goes green, you're still in neutral
>Every second you're in neutral is slower than someone who is already in gear and already moving up with traffic

Have you invented a way to accelerate to keep up with traffic while in neutral? No? You are in the wrong then, friend.

But you have to make first synchro work harder when you do it your way, sometimes it's almost too hard.

>1st scenario
There is no argument there for staying in gear. If anything, staying in gear to engine brake would make you MORE likely to get rear ended, since you're decelerating but your brake lights aren't lit up. If you were coasting and braking your lights would activate, which may cause the truck driver to notice the trouble from farther away, giving him enough time to slow. And even if this doesn't happen and he's still gonna rear end you, you can still just go into gear from a coast and go up onto the curb

>driving along in 4th, see red light at a distance with 2 cars stopped
>into neutral, coast on approach, braking to slow down
>light turns green
>go into gear, close gap, keep driving
What's the problem with this?

>every second you're in neutral you're slowing down and holding up traffic behind you
You're slowing down anyway because you're approaching a light... what difference does it make whether you're braking in neutral or engine braking

>you're a selfish piece of shit who prioritises fuel over efficient driving, and you can't even get that right - If you're in traffic for 10 minutes longer than other cars, are you really saving fuel?
Firstly, it's not about saving fuel necessarily. It's about saving undue wear on your engine and tranny. Secondly, how does coasting in neutral when approaching stops slow your or other cars at all? If going in neutral would slow you down too much or too early, then just stay in gear a bit longer...Drive with traffic, slow with traffic, it's that simple. If you have trouble doing that while coasting in neutral you might be retarded

>But you have to make first synchro work harder when you do it your way
How do you figure that?...you're going into first from idle rpms.

What makes you think you can't brake and engine brake at the same time?

Lights have an amber setting
coasting up to the lights in neutral is daft but if you're stopped you should be in neutral

>What makes you think you can't brake and engine brake at the same time?
Nothing. If I'm driving in a high gear and notice I have to stop I will do both until rpms drop too low, then I will go into neutral and coast. But I won't bother continually downshifting just so I can engine brake the entire way. Why do this when all it does it cause more wear on your engine and tranny and has literally no benefit

did you spazzes realise you put more wear on your clutch accelerating than from downshifting under 1k rpm

the more you know

Because wear is negligible and you are in gear while moving as opposed to not. It's really fuckall difference for longevity.

Even if the wear is negligible (which it isn't), it's still more wok for literally no benefit.
>you are in gear while moving as opposed to not.
So fucking what? If you're approaching a stop what does it matter

Just personal preference for the paranoid among us as other user pointed out, and braps.

>Even if the wear is negligible (which it isn't)

yes it is

oh no im gonna have to change my clutch at 160k miles instead of 165k

Are you retarded?
The first scenario is all about being in gear to get out of the way of impending doom, do you plan on quickly shifting into gear and then darting out the way? The time it takes to do one less step could be the difference between life and death.

2nd scenario... Again.
You are slowing down. People in front of you are speeding up.
If the light suddenly changes and it's a pleasant surprise, you are NOT going to be in a position to simply coast and close the distance between the cars in front of you. They are going to accelerate and leave a gap in front of you, meanwhile you are in the middle of the road neither here nor there.
Ever tried holding a stretch and counting to 30? Time is a fucking commodity. You're wasting it by being a retard on the road. You might miss the next lights, you might make someone behind you miss the lights when they could have, but you don't fucking care, it's all about you.

Finally, it's nothing to do with engine or transmission wear. Why the fuck would engine braking wear the engine unnecessarily? Why the fuck would being fully in gear at an appropriate speed be wearing it?

All your points are bullshit responses trying to justify not using as much petrol like a cuck by wasting other peoples time, and you're not even man enough to admit it, you blame magical wear and tear memes that you don't understand.

>t-the wear on my engine and tranny is negligible!
>t-the fuel savings are negligible!
>rev matching is hard :(
>so what if I'm putting myself at a higher risk of being rear ended, at least I can replace my brake pads 10k later!
suit yourself lads... keep downshifting/engine braking if you really want to

how the fuck does it make an higher risk for rear ending.

desu senpai im heel toe downshifting while hitting the brakes for fully sikk 4 banger noises at lights

its like you dont even attack the touge or something

Either way, or downshift through the gears if you can rev match at least a little.

You're father doesn't know what he's talking about.

I just bought my first manual car (Honda s2000) and I don't even know how to drive manual. The person I bought it from drove it to my house. Will I fuck up my car if I try to learn by myself watching hours and hours of YouTube videos. My girlfriend's brother offered to teach me but he'll be out of state for 2 weeks .

Why would someone who does engine braking call revmatching hard? It involves rev matching. Why would it affect wear any significant amount? The crank is bathed in oil. The piston rings have some oil to lubricate them. It might cause more wear if your car can't make decent oil pressure but that's not a healthy car. Rev matching also ensures minimal clutch slip. It's literally just personal preference, with some added but not essential safety benefits.

No. Just don't skip gears in that transmission, according to the manual.

Are you retarded? Did you miss the part where I outlined how you could have avoided the first scenario in the first place by using your brakes rather than relying on engine brakes? It's possible that you in fact caused the scenario by relying on engine brakes

>2nd scenario... Again.
>You are slowing down. People in front of you are speeding up.
Firstly, can you explain why the fuck people are speeding up to a red light? If it's obviously a late red, then just take that into account. If the light changes and you don't have enough speed to coast and close the gap then you simply go into gear and continue driving. I really don't get where you're getting this notion that I'm slowing traffic or not keeping up with traffic....this isn't rocket science man

>Yes, I deliberately increase my stopping distance BUT nuh uh! OTHER people are putting themselves at risk of car accidents instead of doing what I'm doing.

youtube.com/watch?v=irE5z6X2pL0
If only that sedan was in neutral with his brake lights on, he could have been saved!

Just so you actually know what is safe and sensible.
Low speeds?
>Down shift, revmatch so you DON'T suddenly shed speed, use engine braking WHILE braking to smoothly slow down and still have the ability to apply throttle if the need arises

>how the fuck does it make an higher risk for rear ending.
Because engine braking causes you to slow without lighting your brake lights. The retarded normie on their phone driving behind you won't notice

>
>Why would it affect wear any significant amount?
Let's see, every single time you approach a stop you can downshift 3-4 times, or not at all. Which do you think puts less wear on your clutch? It's common sense man

Coasting around increasing your stopping distance is a bad idea if you're stooped on a highway, you blithering moron.
You're either gunna rear end someone, or you're going to be in no position to remove yourself out of harms way if there's a truck behind you not paying attention.

THE FIRST SITUATION DOES NOT TAKE BRAKE LIGHTS OUT OF THE EQUATION.

You can in fact, brake, while being in a lower gear. I know, it's a goddamn shocker.

Why would anyone not combine engine braking and braking unless making a 5 mph adjustment on a highway? Why does a fraction of a second of clutch engagement a couple times wear the clutch a ton? It's prolonged slippage that wears them out. What is the benefit of being in neutral and then launching forward when rear ended as opposed to staying in place, as well as having the ability to move away from a potentially rear ending car quicker?

so what the fuck is the problem with just throwing it in nuetral and then applying the brakes? does it make too much sense? what the fuck am i reading in here?

It's personal preference. It's a bit lazier and less safe, but would save you a few hundred miles of clutch wear and engine life.

REV MATCH.

REV.

MATCH.

R E V
E
V

M A T C H
A
T
C
H

Proper control of your vehicle means you can slow down at the rate you choose. Seriously, just stop responding, you clearly know NOTHING about manual transmissions.

It's been a good little "I'm just pretending to be retarded debate" you're playing around with, I've played along, but the joke has worn thin.

Its worse than that, your father is a little bitch, and you are too for not realising that HURR WEAR ON STUFF is literally irrelevent because youll have sold or crashed the car by the time anything actually starts to show up as an issue if it ever would (it wont)

If you wwant to learn how to decellerate better, this is not the bet way to send your time. Learn how to dowshift properly - revmatch. That will (notably) prolong the life of your clutch

i suppose it would save significant amounts clutchwear and engine life considering i have no idea how an engine and tranny works. im gonna continue using neutral and my brakes

Because you're essentially out of control if you're moving out of gear

Not any significant amount if done correctly. Like 200 miles out of 100,000 for a clutch. You should put it in gear to
1. Give yourself another ABS system
2. Give yourself more time to maneuver out of the way of a runaway vehicle
3. Increase braking force
4. Help arrest forward motion in the event you are rear ended (you'll stall most likely)
5. Save fuel (No, really, look it up)

>Yes, I deliberately increase my stopping distance
How am I increasing my stopping distance?This is why you go into neutral and start gradually decelerating earlier

>If only that sedan was in neutral with his brake lights on
You can't tell if he was slowing, stopped, or moving slowly/accelerating. If he's stopped or just about to stop then he would have to be in neutral anyway to avoid stalling, if he's slowing but not stopping or moving slowly or accelerating then he would have been in first which evidently didn't help him

>You can in fact, brake, while being in a lower gear. I know, it's a goddamn shocker.
I know, and I do this dropping revs as low as the current gear will go. Then I will coast after

I understand rev matching, I've been driving manual for years. What I'm saying is that it makes sense to downshift knowing that you may want to accelerate soon after slowing, but NOT when you know you're coming to a complete stop

>i have no idea how an engine and tranny works
make the effort to learn if you want to drive seriously

>Because you're essentially out of control if you're moving out of gear

>steering works
>brakes work
>if you need to accelerate, take half a second to get into gear
seems pretty in control to me bro

Rev matching should be done period because otherwise you'll shock the drivetrain and lurch or spend way too much time slipping the clutch to match trans and engine speeds. The clutch is not designed to spin the engine up to speed. You are increasing stopping distance by not utilizing drivetrain drag to assist in slowing down.

>Not any significant amount if done correctly. Like 200 miles out of 100,000 for a clutch
yeah how much wear if im doing it incorrectly?

>you'll shock the drivetrain and lurch or spend way too much time slipping the clutch to match trans and engine speeds
I guess you've never heard of blipping the throttle... you do know how to smoothly get into gear at any speed from idle rpm don't you? It's really not that hard

Engineering explained did a video on just this topic. Coasting in gear does not effect the engine at all. The only wear you cause is downshifting without rev matching

depends on my mood, but usually just leave it in gear until im really about to stop, or maybe just downshift one gear then to nuetral as i stop. I really only drop more than a gear or two for slowing for a fast corner

I've seen people destroy clutches in like 50,000 miles but that's more by riding the clutch.

>You are increasing stopping distance by not utilizing drivetrain drag to assist in slowing down.
The only scenario where stopping distance matters this much is if you need to stop suddenly in a short distance, in which case you're not going to have time to downshift through all the gears anyway. Obviously you brake and engine brake in the current gear only as much as you can

>half a second
Half a second not in control

Rev matching is blipping the throttle while downshifting. What did you think it meant?

The very act of you asking this question means i can only recommend an automatic

I understand that. I never said you shouldn't rev match when downshifting. What I'm saying is that downshifting is not necessary at all if you're approaching a full stop, just can just coast and brake. But if you're slowing from a distance on a highway then yes it makes sense to engine brake

It does indeed make sense to downshift all the way when slowing to a complete stop, for reasons stated here.

The clutch pin thing is a complete non-issue dreamed up by car nerds. No car mechanic you ask will ever have a story about that breaking from keeping your clutch pressed in.

fair enough, but it still causes wear on the clutch

Let's say you downshift 3 times per stop and there are 10 points where you do this in your commute per way, per day. That's 300 extra shifts a week, 15100 extra shifts per year. You're seriously claiming that that's negligible??

Do you guys RPM match before downshifting to a stop? I don't like those lumpy approaches to traffic lights.

Yes, excess slippage is what wears a clutch. A quick shift doesn't get it hot enough to really damage anything.

you should always rev match when downshifting. But downshifting is not necessary when approaching a stop in a residential/rural/city roads. Just go into neutral and coast and brake :)

Not in the convo, but yeah. Id estimate a car does a million shifts in its lifetime.

Don't ever not revmatch when downshifting. It's uncomfortable and damaging.

>Going Highway speed 85-100, 6th gear, notice traffic ahead is stopped, start braking
>Put in neutral at and coast at 70mph while braking
>This extra stopping distance puts you at absolutely no disadvantage, and in fact warns the people behind you for longer that they need to slow down too, because we all know that someone downshifting doesn't use the brake lights long enough - it's an all-or-nothing response; they simply slam everything down and come to a complete stop far too early and break down due to the excessive wear on the engine, not sufficiently warning people behind them and causing traffic accidents!

Real clever, user.

I don't know what kind of car this scenario is in, but in my car I can brake and stay in highest gear until about 35 - 40 mph so no, I wouldn't be coasting at 70 fucking mph. I'd engine brake and brake normally until 40 mph and never indicated that it was "all or nothing"

He's mocking that user.
>because everyone knows x clearly does y and only y
shows the sarcasm.