electrek.co
From the news - Yesterday, the new Dutch government presented its detailed plan for the coming years and it includes making all new cars emission-free by 2030 – virtually banning petrol- and diesel-powered cars in favor of battery-powered vehicles.
>While some local publications are reporting “all cars”, we are told that it would be for “all new cars” as it is the case for the countries with similar bans under consideration.
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theguardian.com
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independent.co.uk
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How any country thinks we can be completely free of ICE's in 13 years is beyond me. Would never happen in the US
Similar news -
>The Chinese soon to ban all gas and diesel powered cars int he near future.
theguardian.com
>Britain to ban sale of all diesel and petrol cars and vans from 2040
theguardian.com
>Scotland to 'phase out' new petrol and diesel cars by 2032
independent.co.uk
By 2030, all power plants will also be battery powered in Europe
>How any country thinks we can be completely free of ICE's in 13 years is beyond me.
I found an explanation that may clear your doubt.
"The average car is only in existence for 20 years -- after which it is scrapped/recycled/used for parts. The exact thing will happen here. Except by setting a deadline 12 years out, companies and people will start replacing those cars with electric vehicles once their lifetimes are up. The used electric car market will have lots of supply by then too. They are not banning the use of existing vehicles, only the sale of new petrol/diesel vehicles, so all the cars on the road in 2029 will likely still be on the road at 2030, but after that point the ONLY option will be to replace them with electric."
-- someone on Reddit
>The Chinese soon to ban all gas and diesel powered cars int he near future
Quick, somebody find a cheap way to mass produce hydrogen gas so we can save the planet and the ICE
Battery powered electrolysis
Where does the battery get its power
more batteries
At this point why not make cars with two banks of batteries that both power each other
Actually I got a better idea
>How will we end global pollution?
>obviously focus on the polluters who pollute the least. the civillians of small countries going to and from work!
>so we're just gonna let those diesel freightliners idle in the harbor?
>yep.
>and keep the coal plants?
>yep, but we'll suppliment them with nuclear which is safe and never goes wrong except due to human error
"Oh no, I can't get parts for my 30 year old car. Nobody is making this car so nobody is making the parts. It's too old and needs to be scrapped so other people can get parts and I can get an electric self driving camry." said nobody ever.
Nuclear power isn't even that bad.
Not bad at all, only that you have to store the waste for 1 Million Years
just put it in a rocket and send it to the sun
batteries all the way down
>making major legislative decisions based on vaporware
Should we blame Tesla for being too successful and thus making countries start banning ICE?
Don't the dutch just ride bicycles anyway?
funny way of spelling penis
No. Blame the anti-scientific communists.
Yeah, because car culture has been systematically getting murdered over the past few decades.
>china
burn 2/3 of the worlds coal, fucking china
apex zozzle
ja tuurlijk
als dat zo is blaas ik dit kankerland op
>Mfw some German cities are debating a flatout diesel ban, even on modern diesels that have less emissions than older petrol engines
Typical EU mindset.
Measuring and enforcing the diameters of clams has a greater priority than doing something about the immigrant problem.
i swear to god i am so fucking done with my country, first shitty multirole fighters. now this bullshit, fuck off.
As an actual diesel mechanic this is only mostly true
>see: Volkswagen
As long as the emissions controls are in place, yes they are much cleaner than old gas engines and even some new ones, but those emissions controls fail all the time because they require delicate sensors and proper ECU calibration. Easy to fix (in theory) but I get buses out of service for EGR, DOC, DPF and regeneration issues all the time, some of them for over a week just waiting for parts. Out of forty buses, there’s usually at least one down for any one of those reasons. Old diesels are dirty as fuck though and should be required to have a retrofit exhaust, imo.
>Old diesels are dirty as fuck though and should be required to have a retrofit exhaust, imo.
Some cities here have decided to flatout ban older diesels, even if they're sporting a retrofitted filter. If it wasn't there from the factory, that's a big fine for you.
That’s lame. Here in California you’re basically encouraged to buy older diesels, since they’re emissions exempt if they’re older than ‘95, which seems weird considering all our other anti-car laws and propositions.
They're seriously trying to kill the used car market over here.
Another dick move: classic status means no road taxes and lower insurance, and requires your car to be over 25 years old in most countries. So what did people do? Buy 25 year old cars because that's a big fucking tax break.
In response, they made the age limit for classic status FORTY YEARS.
What is up with the bumper on that?
>liberals virtue signalling at the federal level
>ban ICE cars because we're sooooo progressive
>let's just keep buying everything from China though lol
>also let's not stop eating meat, which pollutes as much as driving, because lmao that would actually involve effort and sacrifice
>also we're not going to sit in a hot or cold house, ever. Perfect climate control everywhere I am indoors
>Also let's just allow the third world to outpace our birthrates and travel here unabated. Surely Africans/Mexicans will care about the environment as much as we do when they're the majority in europe/usa.
Watching humanity pretend to deal with this issue is adorable when the ACTUAL solution is so simple.
>sterilize 3rd world. offer first world comforts for sterilization. They will trade children for air conditioning, food, and medical care 100% of the time.
>keep first world exactly the same. Birth rates are under replacement
Population needs to decline to below 1 billion. Any effort that isn't cornerstoned by intentional population decline is virtue signalling and counting on unlikely scientific breakthrough.
>muh genocide
Grow up
>bans
What happened to the free market?
Maybe i want a petrol car you faggots!
>car market
>free
Lol
Go ahead and order a car from the manufacturer's website. I'll wait.
burgerstan laws
US spec bumper, thats what you get for your dumb laws.
Everything in this post is true and correct, but if you are an American liberal, it’s also racist.
>the world would be so much better if it was only people of my race/class/gender/religion/aesthetic values
If you want a human genocide, you could start with yourself
Otherwise I actually agree that the world would be so much better if a random 50-80% of us just fell dead for no reason.
And make sunlight radioactive? I don't think so, bud
>hallo AIVD
fuck it, I'm moving.
the petrol prices are already ridiculous and now pull this shit. Germany shouldve annexed us when it could.
According to our government everyone wants to be one those business left lane lease faggots.
>mfrn
I have seen students at several universities and colleges drive old beetles and 2cv's. Turns out those are relatively cheap to maintain.
They wont pull through. No fucking way it's possible
This is true but odd
Car mods? Anything over 2 or 3 dB louder than stock? Gonna get dem huge fines or get it reinspected man.
Bike mods? Straight piped liter bikes screaming? Go right ahead, don't forget your complementary almost-free registration and insurance.
I pay 22 euros per month for full coverage insurance on my bike and 9 euros per month on registration. My golf GTD is 55 for minimum coverage and 111 per month in registration. Don't get me started on our retarded as fuck taxation system on the use of company cars. In my case it would be 52% income tax on 22% of the cars retail price because fuck people having nice things
>half the country is getting fucked economically
>let’s come up with complete bullshit instead of fixing this country’s problems
You mean the cronies who work for big businesses while pretending to be politicians.
>no, my good friends in industry, we won't subject you to such strict standards
>in fact, we will manipulate the laws in your favor even if we do force you to do something
>however, civillians can go fuck themselves
>if they wanted freedom they would just get rich
yeah except my race is the only one that will willingly exterminate itself
the others will say "but life is so beautiful" and have 8 kids, every time. they have shown that they want nothing else but survival and material wealth. the will to live runs through their veins, but not through ours. for that, they must die, so that we may die and leave behind nothing.
Yes, cronies is a better word. Communism and fascism are ultimately the same thing
>viktor you want go to school, yes?
>it's free, comes with a job!
>good paying job, you could buy a new car
>can you prove that cars are evil for us?
>we can take a picture of you in the new car you design for us, it just has to favor this industry instead of that one
>here's the narrative you have to use
>just make it sound scientific so they'll believe you
>then company X will hire you, and you'll qualify for a loan for the house you always wanted, think of the signing bonuses with that on you're resume
It's like kids these days never even blasted Pink Floyd in their first cars or something.
The world objectively would be better with only Europeans and east Asians. Sorry to burst your multicultural fantasy.
Every region on Earth not inhabited by Europeans or east Asians is a shit hole.
Would be difficult in England
>1 Million Years
More like tens of thousands
And breeder reactors exist that can use that waste for more energy production
why would we play crap music in our car
You wouldn't call it crap music if you had a hi-fi from back when adults were in charge of making hi-fis.
You can do that when buying a Tesla
>get it reinspected man
You can get away with a surprising amount if you get it reinspected and re-registered though.
Meanwhile, ICE is becoming so efficient you might as well ban electrics if you hate freedom
Fucking politicians, falling for the bleeding heart environmentalist memes, just like the brainless journalist drones. I don't say that as a petrolhead, but as a scientist knowing facts.
so what are they going to do about work vehicles?
cars from outside the netherlands that are moving in?
dutch buying a car in another country and bringing it back?
the lack of options for an EV in particular car market segments?
people employed by a dealership or manufacturer, of a brand that won't have a battery ev for sale in the netherlands?
>all heating and cooling is based on limit approaching logarithms
>mfw "auto journalists" regularly cite linear projections as "scientific fact"
>mfw they bring up "hurricane intensity" as proof of need for sweeping legislation when the metric is based on dollars worth of damage (in areas that are increasing in population).
>mfw progressive types demand clean energy but nuclear is 2spooky, muh invisible radiation boogeyman
Some people.
Nothing, they want to create a dozen problems just to make a point, to show just how evil they think ICEs are. This is purely done to pat themselves and each other on the back, like veganism and fair trade clothes.
hurricane and flood damage could be greatly reduced by not allowing people to build up in flood plains and increasing building standards in those areas to be more resistant.
if you want people in EVs, or to drive less. the best way to go about it is to incentivize the desired behavior.
tax credits to purchase evs.
build better mass transit
incentive for higher density housing and mix use zoning. so people can live near mass transit and walk more.
>tax credits to purchase evs.
>build better mass transit
>incentive for higher density housing and mix use zoning
NL is the most densely populated country in Europe, there are already huge tax incentives in place in favor of EVs and hybrids, and public transport is among the best in the world.
They're incentivizing (or would be incentivizing) the behavior on a flawed notion, though. Putting the climate change guilt on the everyday Joe Shmoe is horseshit and greenie types pull shady shit in pushing their message- Characterizing personal transportation as making up something like a quarter of global emissions, neglecting to mention that depending on the reporting agency can include semis, planes, city transit, trains- And now it's gone and become a moral matter too.
>be me
>ride bus and metro with the niggers and the women
>finally can afford to have some wheels of my very own ten years from now
>government permabans everything that isn't battery powered auto chink
>tfw you will never get to drift with qt gf in rattling shitbox
What problem will be fixed by EVs? Air quality in dense city centers, and what else? Sure, EVs are more efficient, but considering how small the contribution of inidivual transportation is for overall emissions, it's just a tiny step towards a better future. Those retards are bending over backwards to force EVs down our throats anyway, while completely ignoring actual potentials to make positive change. Modern ICEs with multiple turbochargers, the new BMW 6 cylinder has 4 turbos, have become so clean and efficient, they're completely on track towards being sustainable. Do you know what container ships do to reduce emissions? Zilch. They burn crude oil without filters or catalytic converters. Just the top 15 biggest ships produce the same amount of emissions as 750,000,000 cars, sevenhundred and fifty MILLION, because nobody gives a shit. Among the worse are your favourite ultra luxurious cruiseships.
oceanic shipping emissions crush automobile emissions.
one shipment of cars would put out more emissions than all those cars will do in years.
>inidivual
What the DUCK autocorrect!?
i know. i'm just saying that there is a better way to go about their goal.
There's somethig bout this thread that i really like
Hell, just pulling all the boer out of Africa, close all borders, shut off any food aid and we'd be already ahead.
something something yurocucks lmao
>Just the top 15 biggest ships produce the same amount of emissions as 750,000,000 cars
holy fuck how big are these ships?
Oh you better fucking believe it does, passenger jets too- I just left container ships out because I've seen them attributed more often to the industry sector in the emissions reports I've seen. Maybe the private sector will grow some balls, take a cue from the Navy and run a reactor one of these days.
They're ridiculously fucking massive.
they should just have one big shipping container instead of all those tiny ones.
humans are so wasteful.
Those shipping companies are fucking rich and probably bribe world leaders regularly
I'm question whether "getting people into EVs" should be a priority at all, I don't understand why it should be incentivized at all.
Very. And just look at when these things are built, it's not like there's a just a couple dozen ancients still floating around and it's getting better. This is an absolute fucking nightmare.
International waters, nobody gives a shit. They have to comply to emissions standards when near coasts or in harbors.
The faggot EV shills haven't arrived yet. Same thing happens with self driving car threads
>OOCL
>two stroke diesel engines
>in the year of our Lord 2017
And a 1.5l turbo diesel Fiesta getting 65mpg is literally Hitler gassing the environment.
The absolute state of the world.
In open sea they run those engines on just about anything, most commonly literal tar.
>(1009*2)-1
>not knowing about the 108-109 THOUSAND hp blown 2smoke diesel
autoblog.com
user pls, the stroke alone is like 2.5 METERS. You cannot be serious in thinking these continents do not guzzle ''heavy fuel oil'' like a motherfucker.
nos.nl
Scroll down for a pic of what this cruise ship is belching out. It does that in Rotterdam, which actually has a muh old diesel ban. idling the thing burns through 700 liters of fuel per hour man.
godverdomme als deze kankerzooi overwaait naar België
>They are not banning the use of existing vehicles
They're already making it straight up misery to drive a 10 year old diesel, go figure what they'll do once they ban ICE sales. They'll probably start taxing gas and diesel prices like a pack of cigs, gib 200% tax pls.
LS swap when?
That's how it should be (40 years), a 1992 car isnt a classic car, it's just a shitbox.
Captcha: Corona pronto.
>all new cars emission-free by 2030
so i guess electric will be banned first since they pollute a lot more than liquid fueled cars
Ship engines are more thermally efficient than car engines though. A freight train gets over 70mpg compared to a semi truck.
These laws/restrictions change nothing. We're now at the point where the large majority of the consumer base can purchase an electric vehicle that suits all their needs, and they want whatever is the cheapest to run - and on that part electric clearly wins.
Sure - pollution happens during the profuction, but it will help immensely with the quality of the air in the cities
The only thing these laws will do is kill off any straggler-companies that would perhaps cling on to the ICE
Engineer/economist/big data guy here. This is going to be kind of vague because there's just no way to properly condense what amounts to several large theses of macro-economics, sociology, and medical science into a Veeky Forums post. Also, some of the finer details are proprietary, but the general stuff here isn't exactly a secret.
One of the neat things about EVs is that they can get the majority of the smog OUT of the cities. Besides the part where just burning coal to charge EVs is technically cleaner if done correctly (even beats a prius, let alone anything diesel), getting rid of the smog in cities has enormous benefits.
Nobody gives a shit if you have a coal plant belching in some valley in middle of bumfuck nowhere Nevada. Imagine the haze that plagues major metropolitan areas (particularly the bay area which has some geography that literally traps air over the city) suddenly vanishing. Many health issues evaporate almost overnight. You don't need quite so many medical personal per capita. Less shit in the air means you have to clean less often, especially road tunnels which are a fucking nightmare to keep clean and maintained. I could go on for quite a while, but the point is that EVs in cities can make a measurable impact in the costs/quality of life of living in a city. Less infrastructure, less cost, less taxes. Most of the points are individually quite small, but they add up to something worth taking note of.
Now, the above is assuming static populations. Again, I'm generalizing a shitload here, but if cities become a bit cheaper and/or more desirable, you'll see more people moving to them. Increased population density counteracts many of the cost/health benefits, and you'll eventually reach some equilibrium between the old vs the new, but increased density has it's own economic benefits as well. Increased demand for housing leads to new construction (well assuming you don't enact rent control and batshit insane zoning regulations *cough* NY and SF/LA *cough*). Large scale electrical grid reworks also means construction. In other words, lots of moderately-highly skilled jobs that won't go away any time soon.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's utopia by any stretch. It's just one of those situations where one thing will lead to others, and the end results aren't transparently linked to the initial causes.
Everything in economics is interlinked in some way. Literally everything.
yep and once the greenists have a nice clean air place to live they'll forget about climate change overnight and stop giving a shit
youtu.be
>Would never happen in the US
Probably because most countries this is happening I aren't third world like the US and actually have the infrastructure and technology to support it.
For me it has nothing to do with saving the planet. Going green will only ever happen when it is economically beneficial to do so. You can achieve that by legislation (although that creates incentives to dodge the legislation... look no further than the VW recall for proof that is pertinent to this board), but it's typically achieved because it saves money and increases profits. Maybe that's appealing to some rich hipster demographic. Maybe it's realizing that you can market yourselves as green by having your part time no benefits minimum wage workers use the bear minimum in cleaning products to bring the bathrooms up to legal definitions of cleanliness.
Same thing in construction. Want to know why old houses feel sturdier? Because they typically are. Modern construction has doing the absolute minimum down to a science. If it's beyond code, you're wasting money. Who gives a shit if it falls apart in 20 years? It's not your problem at that point.
Other people have already mentioned it, but it bears repeating. The net emissions of cars definitely contributes to global warming, but it's negligible to the global sum of human emissions. You don't save the planet with low flow toilets in a house that sits on a floodplain where water consumption is borderline irrelevant. You just shit everything up.
There's no such thing as being "green" just being alive is technically killing the earth. The only way to be green is to kill yourself.
Carbon emissions for a hunter/gatherer are negligible. Could even be negative depending on what you decided to kill for food.
Modern western lifestyle? Yeah, not feasible. Possible, but it won't happen anytime soon.
good posts
Let's switch to thorium or sodium