Any ameriphobes care to explain this phenomenon?

>friend asks what's the fastest car he can get for under 5k
>I suggest c4 corvette LT1
>gets mad at me
>generic stereotype about American cars
>buys e90 328i
>electronics start failing within a month

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>explain this
idiocy

That image should be relabelled. "Car enthusiasts" up and "Brand fanboys" on the bottom.
Also for what it's worth a c4 is an old car and things would need replacing as well. Rubber and electronics just age like milk period.

This

>domestic owners
>half a dozen different model specific badges or tuner badges because you wouldn't even have enough brands otherwise or because putting Chrysler and Dodge and Chebby on the picture would be too embarrassing

>fast car
>reliability
Good joke goy, it won't be a eurotrash car nor a burgerstani car.

>people who like the cars that I like are car enthusiasts
Retard

BMWs are meant for leasing and leasing only.

American cars were turds for so long that they're struggling to get out of that stereotype.

That said, brand discussions are shitfests no matter the brand.
Hell, even within the said brand there be schisms.
>Hey check out this fag he drives a V6 Mustang so I won't let him enjoy it hur hur hur

I think he meant change the narrative of the image entirely with the top showing what Car enthusiast look like and the bottom can be anybody who can't go outside brand loyalty.

Sorry, forgot to mention to change images to brands of all kinds as well.
That's because pre-11 they were complete shite and post-11 a used GT of the same price is still a better buy. If you want a v6 coupe buy a Z car.

Like it or not this is what a peak performance shitbox looks like

Fuck you. Omni GLHS for life, you fuck.

Two of my cars are BMWs. One is 15, the other 30. The 15 year old is doing great, with no electrical glitches to speak of, and a build quality that I've never seen matched by an American car. The 30 year old one is beat to fuck, but the thing is built like a tank. Too bad about the electronics being shit. My third car is a 1984 Mercury. It's a rolling joke. Foreign car enthusiasts are not just snobs, we've actually dealt with American crap. My parents drove American cars until I was 12, when we bought a German car. Suddenly, our lives got easier.

so hot

>asks about fastest car for the money
>buys the slowest version of a premium car
Yeah your friend is possibly a moron

Ah, yes, German engineering.
>put plastic on the water pump instead of the dashboard
>spend billions engineering extremely complicated solutions for a 0.1% gain in efficiency
>make maintenance needlessly difficult and build parts that are designed to last for 1 lease period
>chase meaningless numbers designed to impress normalfaggot benchracers at the sacrifice of driver involvement
Porsche is literally the only good German brand because they don't waste money on worthless technology.

Two of my cars are Fords. The 16 year old one works flawlessly. The 28 year old one has lots of worn out components that are close to failure and shit out from time to time. Just food for thought.

As opposed to American engineering.
>Put hard plastics EVERYWHERE
>Refuse to spend any money on solutions, end up paying more as a result
>Be blind to loss of customers

Can you spell Bronco II? Or how about the Escort? And frankly, Ford is the least terrible of the American companies.

>Put hard plastics EVERYWHERE
Who cares if it goes fast

>Ford is the least terrible of the American companies.

>Or how about the Escort?
ESCORT DID NOTHING WRONG

t. yurop

Everywhere except in the fucking engine bay

Just pointing out that "all cars from x are shit" is stupid. I was the user who posted and earlier. I dont really mind plastic as the seat, armrests, and wheel aren't plastic, anywhere else I'm not touching constantly.
God forbid people try new ways to go fast within their domestic market restrictions.

They rarely do. And they rarely corner. They are unpleasant to live with.

Tell me about the 1.9's timing belt, then?

Have you seen any Crown Victoria or Ford Fiesta?

Never said all. And I made a point about them putting hard touch plastics EVERYWHERE, not just where you don't touch.

I mean my 28 year old car has a small plastic armrest I guess. My point is your view is tainted by a very old example, similar to OP. And isnt the Escort all Ford Europe?

what's so horrific about fucking plastic? it doesn't scratch and it's more durable then other materials

this desu. people screech about plastic but plastic honestly isn't that fucking bad. plastic is bad in certain cars where there's too fucking much of it, like third gen camaros and shit.

No, actually. It was primarily Japanese, although the engines, specifically the 1.9 liter, were American. Also, I never said I hated the Mercury, or that it was why I hated American cars. I am rather fond of it. It just has too much cheap feeling plastic.

Well, the first thing is that it grows brittle and breaks. The second, it looks bad, it feels bad, and it ages poorly in both those regards. The third thing is that it absolutely scratches. That is not to say it doesn't have a place. When over used, it makes the car worse.

See? This asshole gets it. Too much of it. Put it where it isn't visible or touched.

Honestly still don't get the complaint. Yes the dash is plastic. Do you constsantly caress the dash? No? Ok then, so what?

Those characteristics vary wildly between plastic types though. There's plenty of chintzy, easily scratched and flimsy crap out there.

Ye, and the chintzy, easily scratched, and flimsy crap is the cheap crap that American companies used from 1973 onto the bankruptcies.

I should also note that the materials and build quality are not the only things wrong with American cars, although they are quite wrong indeed.

Then cars even older than it were why you hate them? Or maybe some newer Dodges I can understand. Do you have any experience with non American cars of the same years as your parents' vehicles?

have you ever been in a third gen? i OWN one. an 89 iroc-z. the dash is fucking gargantuan, and its all plastic. personally i think it's charmingly 80s, but its still ugly.

i do, my buddy had an e30 of the same year as my third gen, and its just as plasticy. honestly the interior of the camaro is just bad. it would still be ugly if it was made of fuckin leather.

Actually, no. The Bronco II was just bad in a bad car way. My complaints are with the 1994 Aerostar, the 1991 Escort, the 2002 Chevy, and the 1996 Chrysler LHS. Although the Aerostar isn't as bad as the others. The Chevy in particular was crap. The 2002 X5 we bought to replace it in 2006 was much better. The 1988 7 series, for all its faults, was much better built than the 84 Mercury, or the 1996 LHS. The LHS was flimsy, but ultimately not god awful. Also, the 2008 Lincoln MK Lt is not a good truck, but I understand that much the way I understand the Bronco II, as a hiccup on the road to recovery.

Then there is the long list of 90's and 00's Chevy compacts I've had the misfortune of both working on and driving. My brother was particularly prone to Corsicas. My point being they always felt lazily built, with cheap materials, and were ill-suited to competition with cars that we ended up buying used many years later.

I get calling your car culture shit, but American cars are pretty alright. Your friend sounds like a bit of a fag.

It's impossible to define a universal car culture for a country, though?
Your complaint is that cheap commuter cars felt cheap?

In comparison to my friends' Toyotas and Hondas, yes.

Let me just clarify my point. Give you exactly the point I want to make in no uncertain terms. Which I will fuck up, but it's worth the effort.

Class for class, American cars have lagged behind their foreign counterparts for decades. The cheap commuter cars that GM made were not competitive with the cheap commuter cars that Toyota, Honda, and VW made. Their "performance" and "premium" brands were unable to compete seriously in either of those markets. The Corvette? For more than a few years there, it could be outrun by German sedans that cost roughly the same. Pontiac? That was a walmart brand BMW. Cadillac? Completely ignored the German invasion, and cut corners while raising prices.

Ford made competent cars poorly. From 1984 to 2011, Ford made competent crap across the line.

I am not mean enough to talk about Chrysler. It's like kicking a hobo.

Foreign cars were better built, and the makers more receptive to criticism. They improved their cars and adapted them to the market conditions, while American companies ignored changes, and cut costs without regard to what those cost cuts would do to their image.

Understandable opinion from correct evidence. I guess my policy is to judge a car on its own, not by its brand, and it seems my criteria don't match yours and lead me to having a largely equal opinion of foreign and domestic from my experiences.

And that ignores the experiences I've had with American cars. They've been slower, less reliable, thirstier, and much less engaging to drive than foreign cars.

I've had the opposite experience with foreign cars but those have been Subarus and a Suzuki. Yet I do not call Japanese cars shit.

So you've had the opposite experience to the one I've had with American cars? So you've had an excellent experience with them? So why would you call them shit?

And I'll direct you to

I don't think I did. I said your summary of foreign manufacturers adapting to demands and criticism was correct, but individually there are plenty of hidden diamonds from the US and plenty of turds from abroad as well as the "usual" trends.

Name the diamonds. Name the turds. Do not include the SHO, I know about the SHO.

Suzuki, Subaru, a good chunk of French cars, etc for starters on foreign turds, going by general opinion. Diamonds would include gas trucks that didn't have some retarded engine issue that dodge wouls cook up, Cummins diesels, the Crown Vic, the 5th generation mustang was a massive leap forward from the 3rd/5th chassis despite memes about axles being unable to be good, the LS-jaun F-bodies, most corvettes past smog era, etc. But if you hate plastic interiors or subscribe to the hp/L meme with a passion you're not going to like them as much as someone who is indifferent to that does.

What did Scooby do to you? The french? We don't get those here. Leave them out of this. Trucks? I'll give you that American trucks are alright. Granted, the 5.4 liter in my Dad's Lincoln is a time bomb, the 5.4 Chevy sucks dick too. I'll also give you the Cummins. But the Crown Vic? Not a diamond, and not hidden. My Mercury is the equivalent of a Crown Vic. It's plush, but ultimately not very good. My brother had a more modern one that was also not very good. The 5th generation Mustang sucked up until the 5.0 was put out. The F body was a joke. For most of its existence it was under powered, and when it finally got the LS1, it was one foot in the grave. The corvettes from Pre-Smog are classics, and as such are hardly hidden. The post smog era, they were turds right up until the latest generation. And it is not just plastic interiors. The driving dynamics in the cars you listed were basically potato. A crown vic couldn't even get around an easy at 20 miles an hour without body roll. The Corvettes were under powered and under built, until they dumped a better engine in them, at which point they became fast enough that turning became an issue. The F-Bodies were so poorly put together, most have disappeared from the road, and even when they were around, my father used to clobber them in his 540. But I will give you trucks. But we weren't talking about trucks. We were talking about cars. You want to talk about trucks, we'll find little to disagree about.

>late generation c4
>a turn
is 300 horsepower not fucking enough for you?

obvious lies i make up on the internet
e90 328is are one of the most reliable modern cars on the market.

and it's also better than a c4 corvette in every way. what a shitty fucking suggestion

Not when it can be thwarted by a moderate left, or outrun by an old man in a 1998 BMW sedan.

Shat its headgaskets, and rusted to piss faster than any domestic in the household with identical washing regimens. Still love them for their driving dynamics. The 5th gen mustang hardly sucked, it fixed all the issues of the fox chassis cars and made over 300 hp. The crown vics do like to roll, yes, but that's to be expected of long travel suspension set to couch mode. Corvettes have always been huge performance bargains, as were F-body camaros.

>THE C4 CANT TURN
ok keep telling me about how you dont know shit about the car you're shitting on. benchracer scum.
>outran by a 98 BMW sedan
which fucking one? the 540I has 282 horsepower to the fucking crank, and weighs more than the C4
if you mean the M5, then congrats its a fucking M5. the ZR1 which costs about the same in the used market destroys the M5. the ZR1 keeps up with porsches of the era.

Bargains? Hardly. My father paid 8k for his 540i. The only Corvette available for that was a C3. And there were no F-bodies to be found. Most had gone the way of the dodo. As for the Crown Vic, it is not just that they roll, but that they roll excessively. They do not move with any sense of urgency or even moderate awareness of the world. I can get behind that, as I have with my Mercury, but still. The 5th generation did not make those corrections until the facelift, and the 300 horsepower was inadequate in the face of Chevy's 6.2 liter. It was not until the 5.0 that the damned stang ran worth a damn.

As for the Scooby, yeah. I can see why that would make you hate Subarus.
It was a 540i, with the 6 speed. And I watched the Corvette in the rear view mirror as my aging father took a moderate turn. I watched the Corvette spin out trying to follow him.

>The F-Bodies were so poorly put together, most have disappeared from the road and even when they were around, my father used to clobber them in his 540
>my father used to clobber them in his 540
Why do you need to lie on the internet?
A '99 Z28 does a quarter mile in 12.9 seconds (coincidentally about the same time as a '15 Mustang GT, according to the testing of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords) and a BMW 540i does it in 14.6, according to Motor Trend.

You do know that there is such a thing as corners, right? While the 540 wasn't a slouch in the straights, those F-Bodies couldn't turn.

actually lmao, a 72k mile ZR1 is 12k, and that's like 10 grand cheaper. "high" mileage, doesn't really matter for bulletproof LT5 engine and ZF 6 speed, could do all the maintenance in your garage, or take it to a regular shop and it would cost the same as a regular c4
>It was a 540i, with the 6 speed. And I watched the Corvette in the rear view mirror as my aging father took a moderate turn. I watched the Corvette spin out trying to follow him.
so what you're trying to tell me is that the c4 needs a driver mod, and you're retarded and somehow think this means C4's can't turn. get the fuck out of here retard.

you're delusional, and this is coming from someone who loves the E39 and wants one over a C4.

Like finding hens teeth.

I'm just telling you what I saw. I refuse to believe somebody was that inept in that corner. It was a banked right.

And how many have you actually owned? They are better in the world than they are on paper. Regularly punched above their own weight. Why do you think they're legends?

>>>>>>>>>
so you can believe that no one can be that inept, but you somehow think a car, that isn't nearly that bad, IS.
seriously thanks for confirming how retarded you are.
>And how many have you actually owned?
I don't need to own one to know you're either lying, or the person you totally saw needs to learn how to drive. seriously, you expect me to believe that?

>It was a 540i, with the 6 speed. And I watched the Corvette in the rear view mirror as my aging father took a moderate turn. I watched the Corvette spin out trying to follow him.
That is honestly the dumbest shit (ever) to base the abilities of a car's performance on and here i thought you were going to at least cite some magazine test. who cares about the error's of some random joe.

what track are they on? i seem to be stupid and can't tell

Not a track. It was a street in the Jemez Mountains. Somewhere around the Valles Caldera.

>German "engineering"

Is-is the engine sharing oil with the differential?

Your answer should have been E36

how the fuck does that work?

It is an oldest generation of 4 matic or Benz's AWD if you prefer. It is for W124 only.

>Porsche is literally the only good German brand because they don't waste money on worthless technology.
youtu.be/WqGK43jMDxY

It's also the worst W124 model ever made.

You can switch it between RWD and 4WD under the hood.

True

youtube.com/watch?v=PPCIsvTRX7c

yeah, but W124 is still reliable as fuck. Poor Mercedes Tech has to deal with that.

2nd gen of 4Matic doesn't have this problem.

3rd gen of 4Matic is best cuz it can drift. See E63.
youtube.com/watch?v=yRKZficUfLE

>american cars
lol

oh look, it's the braindead autist that doesn't know a single thing about cars again

brutal

I'd add Audi to that statement as well... still on the fence with MB

>fancy cup holders used by Saab in the 90s
>not some unreliable piece of shit stuck inside the engine
I maintain my position

>Porsche is literally the only good German brand because they don't waste money on worthless technology.
This is OBJECTIVELY true. I really want to like BMW again but they keep fucking up.