Suspension thread

I guess Porsche is poverty tier then really makes you think how well those cars handle and how fast they are

People say that when you get lowering springs it fucks up your suspension geometry, even after an alignment. Is it a meme?

unless you are willing to spend 3x the price the car was new, and have people who know what they are doing work on it, factory suspension is best

99% of coilovers on the market are re-branded Chinese shit that will seize up or need a rebuild after a year.

If you want a race car suspension you're going to be going full custom with someone like Intrax to get the exact spring and rebound rates you need. You'll be spending at least $3,000-$4,000. Then you'll need to have your car corner balanced and have the suspension tuned.

There's too many """car guys""" who think stiffer is better all the time and then turn around and say stancefags ruined their suspension instead which tickles me.

It gives it less travel, and you have to offset it with stiffer springs/shocks as to not bottom out, which can wear the suspension out more quickly as its a harsher ride. So yes you're making it do something it was intended to do from the design board, but it still works as intended.

You can theoretically fuck your geometry up but at that point you're in stance fag territory and its beyond useful and into aesthetics only.

it has tutorials with video examples on how every part of a car works
you dont even have to play it

>0.002 euro's have been deposited into your account !

That being said for a grand on most cars you're getting adjustable dampening, a range of spring rates and options for adjustable front camber and ride height.

Which is a lot more options than almost any other lowering kit available would give you sans Air bags

Basic answer, suspension geometry changes as the wheel travels through a range. McPherson and Double wishbone are different setups for your suspension.

Coilovers are a damping strut with the spring, and often ride height adjustment built in. Coilovers, or springs and struts are just variables in the entire suspension setup.

>How does suspension stiffness affect grip?
Short answer, it affects grip. Long answer, go read some suspension books.
>Which suspension types are prefered for race cars?
Cantilever probably, depends on what's allowed for the racing class.

I don't want to spend the effort answering the other questions. They're pretty in-depth answers. If you want to ask relative to your specific scenario you should get better answers.

Well yeah.
When your car is halfway through travel, the angles and loads change.
When you're getting an alignment done, really you should have weight in the seat even to accommodate for that.

Alignment should be done after you do basically anything to your suspension.
When you lower your car you can fuck up your roll center.

>Coilovers are a damping strut with the spring, and often ride height adjustment built in. Coilovers, or springs and struts are just variables in the entire suspension setup.
i though struts and shocks were different things?
coilovers are springs with shocks and not struts?

Where you pulled this ? Out of your ass i suppose . I had coil overs on my car for 3 years NEVER HAD a problem, and i go to the track 2/3 times per year . I have KW coils with camber plates

You are correct. Strut is my default because it's what my car originally had. Coilvers are a coil over a shock.

The difference is if they're structural to the suspension.

That's because KW is literally the only quality out-of-the-box coilover brand.

Go back to your morning vodka Ivan.

BC is also good

Post dynos and point out where they are good.

>McPherson
saves space horizontally for engine (just shit box things)
but tends to have large diameter springs that get in the way of wider tires

does not gain much negative camber
gains positive camber if lower control arm tilts above horizontal .eg at max compression

cheep light and can be replaced quickly
used in some rally cars for this reason

>Double wishbone
the upper control arm forms a parallelogram that allows for precise control of camber gain
bulky and complex
some what fragile due to more parts combined with space constraint

>What do all these suspension types mean?
you really have to look up the diagrams for each type and each car
they are all slightly different but mostly are trying to do the same thing
keep the wheels aliened and in contact with the road

also there are not many kinds of front suspension
but there are alot of variants on rear suspension as it has more effect (at lest on rwd cars)

>How does suspension stiffness affect grip
the suspension needs to both keep the tires on the road
and isolate the body of the car from bumps in the road

too stiff and the wheel and body of car with just bounce off bumps rather than maintaining contact
too soft and the body of the car will lag behind the wheels and build up inertia during body roll
also large amounts of body roll can under weight the outside tire (.eg when turning left the front right will have most of the load and the back left the least)
also suspension needs to drop downwards into depressions in the road (think pot hole)

>Which suspension types are considered more 'luxurious'
what ever costs the most...
also hydro pneumatic and electro hydraulic
youtube.com/watch?v=eSi6J-QK1lw

>shock absorbers
they both slow the moment of the spring and counter vibration
and can deal with up to four kinds of movement
slow jounce
fast jounce
slow rebound
fast rebound

spring and damper harmonics
youtube.com/watch?v=mZzfIFBXx5Q

weight distribution
youtube.com/watch?v=ej7CRAIGXow

>note for front suspension
fwd cars have tow out (wheels are pulled into line)
rwd cars have tow in (wheels are pushed into line)
misc alinement's
youtube.com/watch?v=9UcLzPosLDA

obsolete videos give a quick and clear overview of the fundamentals
any further detail is best left to practical experience

>tow

How's the S2000's double wishbone?

>Which suspension types are considered more 'luxurious'?
Bose magnetic suspension

youtu.be/eSi6J-QK1lw

If you drove your car on a good track, in theory you could get away with no suspension like a kart. But on a road cars need suspensions, and modern cars are already too low because of aerodynamics.

you can compensate the lower roll center with progressive/ dual rate springs, which is much easier and more effective than adjusters.

very true. My intent was just to point out that a lower center of gravity is a good thing, fucking your roll center up is not.

The entirety of your suspension works together. If you change one thing you have to look at what else has happened.

One of my shocks are squeaking. Is this something I should actually care about or am I good for another 10k (30k miles on shocks atm)? When I google this all I get is dozens of articles about ball joints.

It's most likely not the shock/strut but one of the other various connecting bars

I've had the wheel off and unless the middle of my leaf spring is squeaking it's deffinently the shock.

>who are QA1 and KYB

Ignore everything in this thread and pick up this book and Tune to Win

Also some good free reads
lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=42423
lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=42568

>BC

lol

>KW
>only good one

You forgot Ohlins, Sachs, Quantum, Bilstein, Nitron, Moton.

I bought a riced out miata with coilovers thinking it was pretty cool and id just adjust the suspension, well I did so but when I took it in for alignment the mechanic told me my "struts were cracked" and I needed new ones.

I have two problems: one is I don't know what kind of coilovers the previous owner installed,so I don't know what struts to buy. Im not sure but I would imagine struts aren't interchangeable across different suspension kits

the other problem is that it might be better for performance or cheaper to just replace the suspension system. If so, what are some good options for NA miatas for autocross and normal driving?

Torsion bars are the best suspension ever, that's all you need to know

Factory stock

It already has coilovers in it and a mishimoto radiator and a cold air intake and 15x9 wheels so I won't get back into the stock class anytime soon. I really doubt the stock spring are the best for autocross, as my buddy has a stock NA and he has a lot more body roll and runs about 4 seconds behind me

Are you sure your shocks are blown? It really should affect your time significantly. Probably should ask someone else to look at them

Retard

Are megan coilovers decent?

I'm wanting coilovers for my landbarge and i don't want to spend 2 grand on them.

My double wishbone shock and spring setup is coilover you dumb fuck

Yes
Retard doesn't know anything but still has to feel like he contributed

Check out racelands

Retard

They don't make them for my car.

How does this compare to car mechanic simulator 2018?

This is what I’m playing. And while it’s fun and shows you where parts go, what they look like, and what they’re called, it doesn’t explain much about how parts work and things like that.

They're both shit

Just get some good fucking dampers like bilsteins and be done with it. coilovers are overrated especially this cheap shit. unless you want something that will leak or blow out after a year or two then go ahead.

If you're on a budget then get something like a KW V1 or a Quantum Zero. Better to spend a few hundred extra on a good product from proven top-tier companies, rather than $800 on a toy coilover that has no r&d behind it and minimal testing for the vehicle it's marketed for.

Never heard of it. What's it like? Automation is decent and will teach you a lot of stuff about engines. Internal components, materials used and how they affect the engine characteristics or performance, and so on. Very technical, but a few bugs here and there.

You can also build cars in it too, but it's a little rudimentary, in the sense you can't drive them and the visuals are bland, but everything is detailed and you get detailed descriptions of every component and different types of this and that.

This user has it right. I got STX Coilovers (KW Variant 1's with slightly less fancy materials and a shorter warranty) for my ST. They ride pretty well and the car is much more planted in corners. Well worth the $900 I spent (Stock struts were kill after 65k so I upgraded)

Shocks are sized to your ride height and suspension travel. Shocks do not effect your height.
Shocks just resist change.

everything posted in here is junk.

Fiesta or Focus ST? I want some coilovers for my Focus SE

If you want to visualise how suspension works, this website has many schematics:

susprog.com/susptype.htm

But this website is great because who can come up with a double wishbone and mcpherson geometry and see how it behaves:

racingaspirations.com/apps/

The weight transfer and wheel frequency calculators are also pretty useful to calculate lateral grip and understand springs, but if you want more options to calculate you can download the program on this website.

suspensioncalculator.com/download.html

If you're interested in dampers, this site is comprehensive in terms of tuning characteristics, even if it's geared towards dirt bikes:

shimrestackor.com/Code/Sample_Applications/Damping_Profile/damping-profile.htm

If instead all you want is a simple rule of thumb, you can rely on this image, but it's not a replacement for actually understanding the physics.

Fucking excellent.
It's a god damn joy to drive.
It's great to work on.
It's easy to adjust.
It's hard to break.
It still beats the fuck out of new cars.

Since nobody actually answered your question...
Yes, it fucks with the roll center, bump steer, and
dynamic camber, even after an alignment.

>McPherson struts are sh-

For example, that picture doesn't say that bump rate on dampers tends to affect corner entry, while rebound rate corner exit. So adding front rebound or rear bump rate does not make for the same result. Especially if the ride height is low enough to make the suspension hit the bump stops, changing the balance (if front understeer, if rear oversteer).

It doesn't say that limited slip differentials only change the handling as is in the chart if the wheels are slipping either. If they are not and there is a lot of static lock or lock increases on engine braking, then they actually just increase understeer.

A slight amount of toe out on the front tires tends to make the car more alive and responsive on a straight line (oversteer), even if you have to use more lock when turning and lateral grip decreases (understeer). Too much toe in also decreases grip, besides destroying the tires.

There is also an optimum pressure for the tires, and that you lose grip not only by decreasing the pressure, but also by increasing beyond it. So hot hatch drivers sometimes max out rear tire pressures to make the rear tires slide easier on autocross, for example.

A shit

imagine how much better this would be with coilovers...

t. brainlet

>spreading the mcstruts are bad meme again

Suspension geometry is the most complicated part of a car to understand desu.
>McPherson struts
Control arm on bottom coilovers attached to control arm at the axle, cheap, but not great usually
>coilovers
Shock and spring in one unit, aftermarket of these generally have adjustable height and the higher end even have adjustable damping and camber
>double wishbone
2 u shaped control arms on your wheek, the top on is a bit shorter than the bottom, the reason for this is it gives the car a teeny bit of flex when you take a turn hard, so In a McPherson strut you've just got only one hard pivot point so when you come in your wheel rocks sideways and doesn't contact the road as well. In a double wishbone the wheels camber slightly under high load and it keeps full contact of the tire.
That's hard to explain in text without visual aids. You've gotta be specific when asking about suspensions there's a whole hell of a lot to it,

You know the thread has good advice in it when 75% of the posters think "coilovers" is a suspension layout.

you can get feathered wear by doing mad skids on gravel
noone told me that and I was too retarded to think about it
rip tires

it does have coilovers from factory nerd

>spinning rubber tires attached to a 3000lb vehicle on a rough gravel surface
>"omg they wore out wtf?"

Its a suspension alternative, it typically changes little of the actual way the suspension works.

Focus, BUT I believe the SE requires a different set of coilovers than the ST.

>suspension alternative

???

I think he meant it's an alternative to a traditional separate spring and damper pair. But this is the chan.

Retard

Retard

10/10 gr8 troll

>get called a retard
>10/10

he gets 5 at most for effort

You are a retard sorry

>calls me a retard
>is breathing air

:)

dude... no...
they spend 10x more on marketing than on r&d

pretty uncompromised for a production car desu

koni yellows and sleeves

Thanks for informative post