Black box

I'm getting a black box insurance and am not allowed more than one passenger at a time, how is this monitored?

It's not, but if you crash with more than one passenger you may as well kill yourself because you'll be responsible for their medical bills.

Why are you getting this?

one passenger period, or one non-family passenger?

unless your vehicle records seat belts being buckled, its hard to track whether you've got passengers in the rear of the vehicle.

how much are you saving?

Underage driver in UK way cheaper insurance etc.
Just one passenger in general. It's only restricted for 3 months. I have a 2010 renault and i doubt the back seats are tracked.

if its only for 3 months, who gives a shit?

either ride dirty or only have 1 passenger in the vehicle at a time. If there's no other markings on the vehicle, like those stupid P or N flags, then drive like a normal human being and cops wont stop you.

Why do you need more than one passenger in the car? Fuck that noise.

>you'll be responsible for their medical bills.
In what fucking country? That's the point of insurance, it covers anything done to third parties including your passengers

COMMON LAW BTFO FOREVER

>how is this monitored?
My car has seat belt sensor info appear on the OBD2. So if a passenger front or back doesn't buckle up, the seat belt warning light comes on. The car insurance sensor box would of course record that.

To get around it, you can either cut the seat sensor wire which works for simple sensors that don't detect if the sensor is faulted open. My car is like that since the back seats are monitored to avoid setting off all the rear passenger air bags if there are no rear passengers. That's a big deal because some of the air bags pop out of the seats, thus the seat upholstery and bags have to be replaced. It's illegal to drive without fixing them and the car phones home that illegal status to the car manufacturer.

>car phones home that illegal status to the car manufacturer
Why the fuck would you buy this car?

>fucking tattletale insurance box
Fuck that noise, only a year and a half until 25, I'm not that desperate for a lower rate.

>That's the point of insurance, it covers anything done to third parties including your passengers
Not if your insurance coverage is invalidated. For example, it's commonly on all policies in my state that there is no coverage if the car is used in a felony (like getaway car in a bank robbery). If you harm someone or their propert, the insurance will not cover them (or you).

Insurance also doesn't cover racing. That's another reason why the police are hot about getting rid of street racers in my city. All those people there basically are driving without insurance even though they have paid for full coverage policies. When they wreck into other cars or a building, the insurance finds out there was a street race and refuses to cover the damages.

To be covered by insurance, you and the car's situation must meet the terms of the policy. Otherwise, the insurance company is within their rights to refuse to cover you. I remember a case over 10 years ago when State Farm could have not covered millions of damages, but people pleaded for State Farm to have a heart and it chose at its option to cover some of the people when it didn't have to cover anyone due to violation of the policy. That was long ago, so it's not like State Farm has a heart now since those managers may have retired and no longer make such profit-losing decisions for the company. I don't see State Farm using those old-fashioned advertising lines that it used to say "Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there [for you]".

>Why the fuck would you buy this car?
Because it is OnStar. The car manufacturer publicly admitted that even if the owner doesn't subscribe, the system still sends data back. It's legal. The computer saves up data and when in range of a cell tower, makes a tiny data packet. OnStar is not the only system that phones home. Other car makers have their own proprietary systems such as BMW, Mercedes, Kia, Honda, Lexus, etc. The IoT (internet of things) and Big Data are here and now.

Your only scanty protection is the privacy laws that currently stop insurance companies (and employers) from accessing your data from those databases without your advance permission. Wanna bet that lobbyists will eventually convince lawmakers to grant exceptions? What you and everyone else should do is remain alert for legal changes to privacy laws. And then write or contact the lawmakers if that kind of privacy change is being considered.

>Not if your insurance coverage is invalidated
>refuses to cover the damages.
>the insurance company is within their rights to refuse to cover you

Jesus Christ, user, move out of the third world, none of these problems exist in the civilized part of the planet. In France insurance companies even have a legal delay of 3 months at most to pay you. Not to mention you don't actually bother with the company of whoever is at fault, you just call yours and they pay you then get the monies back from the third party.

>being such a cuck as own black box insurance

wow

>user why do you want to buy an old shitbox?
>why not get a nice new car?
ENJOY YOUR PHONE HOME SHIT NORMIES

>In what fucking country?
In what ever fucking country you're insured in where you didn't abide by the agreed terms you fucking mouth breather.

I have an "18 GMC Duramax that I have a Scan gauge plugged into OBD. I used get monthly reports on the health of the truck from GMC. Since I have the Scan gauge plug in my emails from GMC state: unable to read engine vitals because something is plugged into the OBD port. TL;DR.... plug something into OBD port and big brother can't eaves drop.

>monthly emails to tell you if your car is running ok or not
how lazy are people?

GM provides a website that I login and can see all my driving stats. I can even get an app which will show a map of where I drove and at what speeds. It even marks on the map where I was speeding.

>250hp first car
>no insurance (not mandatory)

3rd world master race

What country?

You say this like it's a good thing

>I used get monthly reports on the health of the truck from GMC
My GM car gets those monthly emails too. But if anything goes wrong, an email is sent immediately. For example, if the tire pressure drops, an email is immediately sent to my email address or I can have it send a message to my phone.

>You say this like it's a good thing
Unfortunately, they have the data anyways because that's how the laws have been weakened to allow them to collect data on where I go and what I do with the car (speeding, hooning, weaving in lane, not using turn signals, etc). So as long as I can get access to it, at least I can make use of data.

>In what fucking country?
The USA, if you are driving without insurance, for example having two passengers when your policy limits you to one you are responsible for the costs incurred.

What if you have lots of heavy shit in the back?

Busrider detected

You aren't wrong, just an ironic shit

Read the OP again, this isn't a matter of legislation.
OP is undertaking an insurance contract that stipulates he can only have 1 passenger. Logic then follows that an accident involving more than one passenger would not be covered by the insurance company, as it would be outside the terms specified in the insurance contract.
This would be the case in every country in the fucking world that has a functioning law of contract, including France.

>In France insurance companies even have a legal delay of 3 months at most to pay you. Not to mention you don't actually bother with the company of whoever is at fault, you just call yours and they pay you then get the monies back from the third party.
This might be the case, but I guarantee you if the accident was outside of the terms specified in the insurance contract, they wouldn't fucking pay it.

>>In France insurance companies even have a legal delay of 3 months at most to pay you. Not to mention you don't actually bother with the company of whoever is at fault, you just call yours and they pay you then get the monies back from the third party.
>This might be the case, but I guarantee you if the accident was outside of the terms specified in the insurance contract, they wouldn't fucking pay it.

It's just that (I guess) most European countries have laws on what an insurer can stipulate in their ToS.

Still, if you do something that violates it, like nailing someone while DUI, you're paying out of pocket.

>black box insurance
My insurance would go up significantly after fitting that...
Also it would blow up due to unfiltered interference from the 12V line and contact ignition.
(don´t even have a battery)

Insurance companies here are not allowed to add abusive terms to the contract such as passenger limits

>this is legal in his """"country""""

What a shit country to live

>medical bills!?
get an nhs

C U C K
U
C
K

>crash with more than one passenger

I just have them all line up at the insurance company door and tell the company "You pick the one that gets covered."

The insurance company says none are covered because you violated your contract ToS. Thus the insurance is invalid for coverage for the whole situation. Severage terms is usually on the side of the insurance carrier since they write up the contract and you have the freedom of choice to accept their ToS or not.

USA states typically have an insurance commissioner office that oversees insurance issues and prevents overcharging (rates too high), price fixing, discrimination, or abusive insurance contracts. Companies typically run their contracts and their periodic update changes through the commissioner (and pay a hefty fee too) for approval before they sell them. My state considers it important enough that the state Insurance Commissioner is an elected position.

You might have the attitude that the insurance company took your money, so they have to pay no matter what. But that is not true. You purchased a contract and paid for the purchase. The contract that you purchased now has terms that you must meet in order to be able to collect from the insurance company. If you don't meet those terms, you don't collect even though you paid for the contract. The concepts of buying a contract and being able to collect money are two separate issues. That's why internet service providers can keep your yearly fee you paid in advance even though they terminated you for copyright violation (illegal activity). Or why if you buy a one year cellphone contract, you still have to pay for it even if you switch to another carrier. You bought the contract, but you then subsequently chose to use a different carrier. Those are two separate issues. Of course, most users are spoiled because the new carrier typically buys out the contract for you in hopes of retaining your business.

I doubt it is through OBD2 but seat belt usage may be available through a manufacturer specific set of PIDs. The restriction of one passenger at a time would probably only come to light if you were stopped and the police checked your insurance policy or you were involved in an accident - in either case, you'd be uninsured amd in deep shit) if you had more than one passenger.

Love to know the imaginary country in which you're living where you remain insured for a circumstance you're not insured for...

Insurance companies are not allowed to dictate abusive terms in France

Which legislation is this?
What dictates an "abusive term"?

Bump for the snail eating surrender monkey to defend himself

>Insurance companies here are not allowed
Well I guess we know why your insurance rates are so ungodly expensive, because the companies exist to make a profit and are told they can't do "x" by daddy government because it's "abusive" so they raise everyone's rates to make up for it.

I would happily pay for more expensive insurance if that would prevent me from having to install a botnet meme device in my card.

>what are terms and conditions and exceptions and riders and waivers and exclusions

Enjoy life when you grow up

>being this mad

in Germany your insurance still has to pay damages to third parties even when you are in violation of their tos
later on the insurance company will come after you and demand paying it back (recourse claims)
this way innocent third parties can always rely on their damages being paid
and in case you go bankrupt and can't pay the risk goes to your insurance company who can easily handle it
instead of the single mom whose car has been totaled by an under insured boiracer

>germany
>this way innocent third parties can always rely on their damages being paid

Your german government is about the people and not corporations, so that's why your insurance law is like that. In the USA, the politicians get lobbied and make great personal fortunes not just for themselves, but also for their family and friends thru lobbyists and corporate support. So the laws protect corporations more than the people especially with deregulation. Regulations generally protect consumers or were created to make a paper trail to insure guilty companies had a harder time of hiding or avoiding guilt if they did something wrong. Thus, deregulation basically protects corporations and removes protections for the consumer or removes the ability to catch corporations doing something bad.

So, insurance policies here in the USA require the customer to follow the ToS. If the situation is not covered by insurance, the victims have to sue the perpetrator in civil court and hope that person has enough money or assets to pay off. Occasionally, good samaritans have been sued too because victims and their lawyers don't care where the money comes from as long as there is some money. If there is enough doubt in how a good samaritan performed their good deed, then a suit can be filed as the quality needed to file a lawsuit is well beneath the quality needed to convict the good samaritan. Thus, many samaritans find it far cheaper to pay out a few thousands in settlement than to go ahead with the lawsuit which they would of course win. Because there was enough quality (aka merit) to initiate the lawsuit, the samaritan is unable to recover court costs from the plaintiff.

>not answering the question

>not answering the quetion
There was no question to answer at that point. The person that was angry about ToS was effectively answered when other posters pointed out (in their own bantering posts) that each country has its own fundamental law differences about car insurance and what terms are allowed.

Essentially, countries like Germany set entrance conditions for companies that sell insurance in that country whereas the USA does not. In Germany, if insurance companies sell liability policies, then the accident victim will usually receive at least a minimum liability payment regardless of the policy holder meeting ToS or not. Similarly if the policy holder buys medical, then the victim will receive at least something regardless of ToS. It is the company's responsibility to get restitution from the policy holder for not meeting ToS.

In the USA, it is the victim's responsibility to get restitution from the insurance company (if any) because both the policy holder and the victim must meet ToS requirements. If the victim's type of loss(es) are not listed in the ToS, then the victim does not get any compensation. If the policy holder is violating the ToS, then the victim does not get any compensation from the company but must sue the policy holder in a civil court case. Of course, for hit and runs, and dindu, it is difficult if independent witnesses do not provide testimony. Unlike germany, in the USA, if there is a "he said, she said" the insurance company can often avoid payment because some usa states (not all) require fault to be assigned unlike no fault states. Thus, besides the USA federal laws, there are state laws that also differ on how a ToS is implemented.

So there is no single universal answer for payouts because of legal differences in how ToS and contract law is administered for insurance companies in different countries or different usa states.

Probably by the seatbelt indicator.

Just cut the wires and splice them together so it appears every seat but the drivers seat is empty

>There was no question to answer at that point.
Again; Which legislation is this?
What dictates an "abusive term"?

youre a fucking cuck.
I want you to know and understand that you are the reason that everyone is going to have this shit installed in their cars and will be monitored 24/7.

go with an insurance company that doesnt do this. the reason they can get away with this type of shit is because idiots say "oh well, whatcanya do" and buy it anyway.

>if the tire pressure drops, an email is immediately sent to my email address or I can have it send a message to my phone.

I died in a horrible wreck because I checked a text message on my phone about low tire pressure.

It's the jews. really, it's a jewish trick to quarter your liability protection for a marginally lower premium

That's your fault for "texting" (reading text messages on cellphone) while driving. More and more governments will pass laws against the use of electronic distractions while driving.

Why? Why would you do that?

I'm not going to read every law on insurance ever, then translate it for you just so your autism is satisfied, fuck you nigga, i have head gaskets to swap

>All these pissed off people
>not understanding in our country its virtually impossible for a young driver to be able to pay regular insurance

>how is this monitored?
Because you agreed in writing to be monitored, that means you have surrendered your privacy rights specifically towards preventing access to any info related to how many passengers are in your car at the time of your claim.

Your insurance company probably has a cooperative agreement with the city, so it can look at any traffic camera footage of your car's route to see how many people are in the car. Your black box gave the GPS location of your whole path, so all cameras can eventually be found even if they belong to walmart, target, mall, traffic light, or other observational cameras on a freeway. If more than one passenger in the car, then you are violating the ToS and your coverage is voided for that car trip. You technically drove without insurance on that car trip. If you take it to court and fail to win, you can then be cited for driving without insurance coverage if the city attorney is pissed at you for wasting a court slot.

Another way to check is to see how many cellphones are in the car. If there are several, then it can be assumed there are multiple people. Of course, you can lie and say those people left the phones in the car and weren't actually there. But you are upping the ante by lying in court, but hey, lots of people lie in court all the time. Remember that lying in court for insurance can get you a FRAUD charge. Next to pedo and sex criminal, fraud will legally prevent you from being employed in many jobs that require trust or money handling or special sensitive_info handling.

Picture: no passenger so it meets OP's insurance company's requirement of safe driving

>its virtually impossible for a young driver to be able to pay regular insurance
As long as people understand that it is a privilege, not a right, to be able to legally drive a car.

>I have a 2010 renault
This is when older cars are "better". Older "new" cars than yours track the front passenger seat so as not to fire the front passenger air bag in order to save money on repair costs. My new car tracks the rear seats as well to avoid firing all the rear air bags and that's another good cost savings as there are a lot of air bags and they rip up the upholstery and side trim when they come out.

>remember a case over 10 years ago when State Farm could have not covered millions of damages
Explain the situation, handsome.

Real talk, why the fuck isn't car insurance a tax if everyone is required to buy it? Same with healthcare. This shit makes no sense. It's like it was designed to keep poor people down.

>It's like it was designed to keep poor people down.
t. poorfag

You need insurance so you can't slam into a building and say LOL NO MONEYZ CAN'T MAKE ME PAY FOR SHIT YO and drive off consequence-free.
The guy who damaged a historic bridge with his shitty 1.0L hatchback is never going to be allowed insurance again, and thus never drive legally again.
The fucktard found at fault for a 5-car chain of rear-ending, causing hours of delays on a major motorway? Fined for life.

That's how my grandpa went.

This man gets it

If a person wants to risk being indebted the rest of their life to live more cheaply then that's their decision. The affected party in the event of an accident will get their money somehow. It's worth it not to be charged exorbitant prices for virtually no coverage because you have to pay it to drive legally

I fully blame mandatory insurance legislation for 90% of the under 25s I know driving uninsured. Regardless of what you try and tell them the risks are insurance is so expensive is well worth the risk to them

my cuckbox insurance was just cancelled. its not worth it, just pay extra for regular insurance and save yourself the black mark for life

>If a person wants to risk being indebted the rest of their life to live more cheaply then that's their decision
Then a person should not be allowed to use a vehicle that can accidentally kill other people or damage their property. Because if this person cannot afford insurance, he won't be able to afford to pay for the damages as well.

Damages will all be taken care of in a timely manner even when there's no money at the time. The person who caused everything will just be indebted and have to pay it off for the rest of his life. It's worth making basic transportation not impoverish and render unproductive so many people

>Real talk, why the fuck isn't car insurance a tax if everyone is required to buy it? Same with healthcare.
Because the USA isn't like european countries where the people are more important than corporations. If you are asking such a question, then you must not know of the existence of Reagan whose administration really pushed for privatization instead of government control. It was a stark departure from the republicans of Nixon and prior and marked a big change in how republicans did things in the USA towards deregulation and privatization.

The current problem about paying for insurance in the USA relates far more towards the subtle and drastic effects of the gap between the rich and poor. It's a consequence of deregulating or removal of many of the taxes and inheritance fees upon the rich and their corporations used to shield assets.

I know of a fairly rich person (owns many properties and homes) but who on paper is poor enough to qualify for social welfare. She actually collects social welfare including the EBT welfare card. That's because all her assets are owned by her own corporations. She is the sole person to give orders to the corporation though, so if she actually needs money, the corporation will either hire her for a task or provide her money in return for consulting services. The car she drives is owned by the corporation. Unlike you or me that has to buy a car with money after income taxes, her corp buys the car as a business expense and deducts the value of the car. It also deducts the depreciation of the car.

There's lots of people like her out there. And how ironic is this; she is actually jewish.

>The person who caused everything will just be indebted and have to pay it off for the rest of his life.
Logic: The payments are no longer necessary if the former victim dies.

>if a guy is racing and creams you (a non participant) they can not pay you
yeah no, they can refuse all they want but they will lose in court. of course they can not cover and drop the policy owner, but not his victims just because of his bad decisions.

You'll be charged criminally in his death then and may need to offer financial compensation for his family. No different then if you had insurance and especially if they didn't cover you for the accident

Timely manner, when paying damages, means the amount of time it takes to deal with the paperwork and deposit money into the victim's account. Now, if there is no insurance and the one who was at fault does not have enough assets, who is going to pay?

They go into debt and everyone gets paid when the guilty party has the money. I went through all of this in Driver's Ed. How do you think accidents work in places where insurance isn't mandatory?

>they can refuse all they want but they will lose in court.
No, the victims have to sue the perpetrator for the money. The insurance company doesn't pay out for damages resulting from suicide, car racing, etc. But most victims have their own insurance already, so it's not like they are unprotected to begin with.

>when the guilty party has the money
Which means "never".

>How do you think accidents work in places where insurance isn't mandatory?
Not very civilized. In a fail state like that people will resort to threats, violence and organized crime, and since it's a fail state, local law enforcement won't help you. At best they will ignore you, and in the worst case your "creditor" will know and your life will become even more miserable.
There will also be professional frauds who will stage the fender bender and demand money.

That's how it was in my country just 15 years ago, before the insurance became mandatory. Now we have to deal with insurance companies fuckery, but at least you can expect to get paid as a victim, and not find yourself enslaved as an offender.

its the same or even worse in other countries aswell - people under 23 pay 230% of the normal insurance fee - which can be over $2000 a month for certain problem cars(for example a e36 300 series BMW)

>certain problem cars
>e36 300 series BMW
>$2000/month
strange how that differs across the world
i'm currenty in the process of buying my first car and looking at e36 six cylinder models
as a 24yr old with zero previous insurance history I'll be paying ~800€/yr in Germany
where do you live btw?

>black box
Just get a job. There's no good reason why anyone should have big brother sitting in the car with them. It's not even that much cheaper unless you drive like an old lady.

Where do you live that that was the case?

Russia.

And there's your problem user

>get an nhs
>more hospitals in the UK run deficits than anywhere else in the world, spare Japan, who has 50% of all hospitals running deficits because they tried to mimic the UK's healthcare system with the oldest average population on the planet.

enjoy your 3 month wait time to get a single appointment when all I do is walk in for a $50 copay
>tfw any self-respecting job gives fantastic medical benefits
Almost like my country wants me to get a job and be a productive member of society to reap it's benefits, I realize that's a foreign concept for the entirety of Europe :^)

>enjoy your 3 month wait time to get a single appointment
That problem the NHS and many other countries have is due in part to the USA. Because USA medicine is not regulated like it is in Europe, the doctors, hospitals, and medical corporations make a ton of money. As a result, doctors in canada, south america, and europe try to immigrate to the USA in order to make more money. That leaves the other countries short handed of the best doctors.

So, once the USA decides to regulate medicine, the medical care in other countries will eventually improve.

germany and as you said
>over 23
I was explicitly calculating the fee for young drivers (under 23yo) referencing to this guy
The insurance percentage for young people which are still beginners (drivers license obtained in the last 3 years) is around 230%

Young people with a license older than 3 years are mostly paying 120%. 24 and over with a atleast 3yo license will start at 100% with their first car.

>I was explicitly calculating the fee for young drivers (under 23yo) referencing to this guy
a 21 year old would pay 1000€/yr and a 18 year old who got his license yesterday would pay 2000€/yr
those values are ten to twenty times lower than the $2000 you quoted per month

>230% of the normal insurance fee - which can be over $2000 a month for certain problem cars
this would imply that even older drivers pay $800 a month which seems ridiculously high
there's no reason that accident rates and cost per accident would differ by a factor of over ten among industrialized countries
so either those numbers are bullshit or there's some extreme jewery going on by the insurance companies

Holy shit. EVERYTHING IS AMERICAS FAULT REEE AMERICA NEEDS TO FIX THIS SO OUR DOCTORS STOP LEAVING THEIR SHITHOLES TO MAKE MILLIONS IN AMERICA

Gm probably wonders why the fuck a sanic is getting redlines and getting shit tons of g in corners all the time.

>I know of a fairly rich person (owns many properties and homes) but who on paper is poor enough to qualify for social welfare. She actually collects social welfare including the EBT welfare card. That's because all her assets are owned by her own corporations. She is the sole person to give orders to the corporation though, so if she actually needs money, the corporation will either hire her for a task or provide her money in return for consulting services. The car she drives is owned by the corporation. Unlike you or me that has to buy a car with money after income taxes, her corp buys the car as a business expense and deducts the value of the car. It also deducts the depreciation of the car.

Nice welfare fraud anecdote

>blaming your lack of good healthcare on competition
Typical socialist

He's a yuropoor

My car does this in the front seat. It has sensors so the airbags won't go off if there is no passenger and there's a little light that tells me when it's on/off and sometimes I will put a heavy backpach there or have doge sittin there and it turns on.

Actually thinkin about it, the airbags might be off when the seat is empty, on when an adult passenger is in there, but off if it senses weight like

It's not fraud when it is legally done. And it is legal to live this way due to the way tax laws for corporations are done. In fact, many rich and wealthy families set up non-profit corporations for their future offspring this way.

Ok, /g/.

I'm pretty sure they'd just use the black box in the car to take readings from the rear seat weight sensors though.