Megacharger

Nah, the post below you nailed it. The only reason to buy it is if your fuel usage is high enough to offset the higher purchase cost. It's only profitable in long haul applications which is the one application it fails in hardest. A short run type application would take decades to just break even, and that's for the cost of the truck alone. If a fleet would need to have a megacharger built on the premises too, then the startup cost would be so much higher than the savings in diesel, it would never start being profitable unless fuel goes up to like $6/gal again

>Veeky Forums is still in denial

Right, because these semi trailers are definitely going to share the same charging stations as other Teslas.

Go back busrider

What are subsitizs nigger

What did he mean by this?

I don't understand why Tesla made a fucking semi-truck. An urban delivery van (think electric Sprinter or Ford Transit) would be a much better idea with a way bigger impact.

It's not as memey.

>Tesla doesn't have money. That's the point. It's common knowledge that they've been burning through cash and are struggling to maintain reserves. The Model 3 was supposed to provide an actual cash flow but since they're failing to actually mass produce it, it doesn't.

Spot on.

>subsities

TRUMP
IS
PRESIDENT

People need to realize something. Tesla is going to DIE. His dreams of space colonization with him. He cant ship his cars. And he is spending R&D on shit that is fucking NOT NEEDED. 500 mile range on a semi is a fucking JOKE. Nobody will purchase this thing.

Tesla started his company by selling luxury shit. He could have instead made a shitty ugly electric car that EVERYONE could buy. But he didnt. Now he finally is TRYING to do that , but he cant even make enough of them.

With this new blunder his company and stock price is going to slowly bleed and die.

>semi trucks can hit 1400 miles on a tank

Humans don't drive 1400 miles in one go. They have to take a break sometime, and the Semi can charge while they get a bite to eat.

matte black wheels are taking over

Because now every trucker stop is going to have at least one megacharger they can wait in line for?

Stock price is up.

Investors are loving the new product, and they almost certainly know more about the market than you.

A year from now Tesla will cross $500 a share from the current $300.

They love the pump a big press event brings to their stock.

btw out of curiosity how much of its own stock does Tesla own?

>They have to take a break sometime, and the Semi can charge while they get a bite to eat.

Where are you going to charge it? There are no charging stations for that (yet).

Who would build these stations and update power grid? How much that would be? Who is going to pay for that?

Many routes are predefined and used continuously.

Strategically placing chargers along the same route would be a trivial task.

Electric automobiles are the future, no amount of whining or poor logic is going to change that. The only question is who is going to do it, and what the implementation is going to be. Right now Tesla is looking pretty solid.

>Investors are loving the new product, and they almost certainly know more about the market than you.
I highly doubt that. Every retard with a brokerage account can buy shares.

>look at the stock price

Yes lets look at the stupid fucking retards with money who saw teslas new shiny object that tickles their futurism muscle

How many of these investors know anything about semi trucks

>hidden chinese knowledge: None

This wont sell. No company will buy these when deisel trucks outperform them and can be refueled ANYWHERE.

Elons mistake was making something for businesses that doesnt vastly blow away existing tech. This thing is a steaming pile of shit with that range. Which would limit the amount of contracts a shipping company could fufill in half or even more.

You would have to be a retard to hold onto tesla stock if this is the future of his company.

>broken 500 mile range semi nobody will buy
>really cool fast roadster for silicon valley elites.

Why would ANYBODY invest in this company?

>Strategically placing chargers along the same route would be a trivial task.
Who is going to pay for it?

I'm not whining. I'm just bemused by your unfounded authoritarian dick-sucking for imaginary benefit.

>Who would build these stations and update power grid?

Gas stations that want to make money. At destination and fulfillment centers where unloading takes place.

Companies just want to save money. Cutting diesel expenses will be huge for them. They will start to introduce the Semi as a small % of their fleet at first, then start to scale up. It is not that hard to understand. Tesla isn't expecting to replace the entire market in one go, they just need to get their foot in the door.

They already have buyers lined up btw.

>electric automobiles are the future

Not with lithium ion batteries. Maybe when graphene takes off or something but lithium ion is a joke and you will have landfills in 100 years stacked 10 stories with toxic batteries .

People who want to make money selling electricity to charge the Semi, and convenience items to their drivers?

It is not that hard to figure out.

Batteries are fully recyclable. Many car batteries will be recycled then used in utility-scale energy storage facilities.

Most companies don't care about the environment btw. They just want to save money by cutting fuel costs. This Semi is for them.

>shipping companies want to save money
This is a true statement
>shipping companies want to save money by buying extremely expensive electric cars that have 1/3 the range of their cheap reliable semi trucks
This is the actual situation and why this piece of shit wont sell at all. Tesla sells great with soyboy startup executives in silicon valley. But it doesnt sell well with people who are just getting by with their shipping business in rural idaho

The tesla semi is an unmitigated disaster and i am actually shocked the retard intends to bring it to market to watch in disbelief as these shipping companies go on to buy 3 of them country wide

OTR truckerfag here, sit down 4-wheelers and listen up

We've known about this truck for a while, and there are several others like it out there but none perform as well as this one. This is the first one to have real-world applications not just some yard dog, a city slicker or a concept that can drive across the parking lot.

The truck can go 500 miles on one full charge, but 30 minutes on a Megacharger and you get an additional 400 miles of range. Most of us who run legal logbooks or E-logs will do about 300 miles before our first break, and we are required a 30 minute DOT break. So, you run your miles, park for your DOT break and charge the truck while on break, then finish your shift. Out west, in a 65mph truck I can do 600 miles a day easy and the big boys will do 700 in one day, so given the charger network it isn't entirely impossible for this truck to hit the road cross country. With the current network now, it could be done, especially on the coasts. More and more truckstops have the Tesla chargers in them especially out west.

The other big advantage is, local drivers who don't do more than a couple hundred miles a day will love this thing. It has no gears to shift and 100% of max torque available at 0 fucking RPM in stop and go traffic that is awesome.

If they can get it off the ground and get them into fleets they will be the next logical evolution in trucking. This also opens the door for hybrid applications and gliders, if Tesla could sell their drivetrain in a glider kit (chassis without engine and drivetrain, you select the drivetrain) it has serious implications for those long-hood fellers, you could get your Pete or KW of choice and have electric hill assist, I lose most of my MPG going up and down hills out west, with an electric motor I could mitigate some of that cost.

The first aero trucks were very expensive back when cabovers ruled the fleets and now they are fucking everywhere. I for one welcome our new electric overlords.

When someone complains about something without proper logic, that is pretty much whining.

You have not provided any reasonable arguments so far. Just noise.

All of the electric charging stations that exist are free to use, though.

You're not really offering arguments, though. You're imagining out loud about how something could work without explaining its particular benefit.

Look at this good sir He presents an actual argument for why this could be more valuable than the status quo, not just how it could make sense if you were to imagine that somehow it's all going to be so profitable.

This is a solid post but I have a feeling you'll be ignored.

>good sir
>Reddit spacing
You're not wrong, but you're going to get a lot of autistic screeching directed at you.

The drivetrain is also rated for a *million* fucking miles which is on par with Detroit's DD15 Tier 4 diesel engine which is in about every Freightliner made in the last 5 years. US Express has already said they will be ordering a "large order" of these trucks when they become available.

This is a truck aimed at megafleets like the one I drive for, Prime, not independent owner operators. As the technology advances you may see it do 1000 miles on a charge or even more, 20 years ago EVs could go maybe 60 or 70 miles on one charge and now look where we are. I see Teslas all the time going cross country so it is absolutely possible, especially in the southern regions, up north in the Dakotas it's a little more difficult. Most hotels have charge stations in them too.

I say give it a chance. If the truck actually delivers on its promises and they can expand their megacharger network enough they may just succeed. It is the next logical evolution in trucking, not ELDs or automation, the latter of which is a Communist pipe dream.

And who says the drivetrain of their prime mover could not be adapted to a smaller vehicle? It's not a diesel the size of a Geo Metro. I bet it's literally a Model S with a fat motor and huge stupid semi truck bodykit.

That is not true.

Only if you have an OG Model S, you will get free charging for that vehicle only, since Tesla foots the bill. That is the only difference, Tesla pays instead of you. Utilities and providers are still getting their money.

You entire argument pretty much fell apart in the span of 10 minutes. You need to reconsider how you talk and present. I won't blame you though, you probably work in a field where human interaction is at a minimum.

>autistic screeching
Like yours? idgaf. Other than greentexting I've almost always used a standard 2-stanza or 3-stanza story-telling format for articulating a point since I left /b/ in 2008.

>The truck can go 500 miles on one full charge, but 30 minutes on a Megacharger and you get an additional 400 miles of range.

Assuming there is no performance / capacity degradation that would be awesome for sure.

>It has no gears to shift and 100% of max torque available at 0 fucking RPM in stop and go traffic that is awesome.

That would be insane. E-motors are the future and the future is coming. I wonder who will pay for the infrastructure and stuff. Taxpayers aka government?

Oh I thought you were talking about the stations like in bongistan where you just buy a card and that's it forever.

The only thing about it that genuinely worries me is the cab extenders, those little flaps that go between the trailer and the tractor, they are too close to allow it to back in tight situations so they would have to retract somehow or they will need to extend that area to allow the trailer to jack-knife (tractor and trailer at 90 degrees) to get into tight areas like up in the Northeast and Southern California where the infrastructure was designed for 1940's daycabs and 30' trailers.

I think it can be done and if anyone can make it happen it will be Musk. I'm optimistic about it and to be honest, I kind of want one.

Most of the presentation in my field is garbage like yours that relies on on presentation alone without establishing why the predicates are axiomatic beyond elevator speeches for how this or that should be able to make money if you think about it right.

Some people want a company to fail. I don't understand this. A failing company only hurts people. It benefits no one. Why wouldn't they rather have a company be improved?

jealousy and fear of the new

I really wish state governments would stop spreading their cheeks for Tesla. The subsidies and tax breaks Musk gets are like 80% of the reasons why any of his companies are successful.

>Reddit spacing

what is with this newfag meme
4channers were Veeky Forums spacing before reddit ever existed.

The rise of one company typically predicates the fall of others.

Tesla causes true butthurt to people working in fossil fuel industries, or competitor auto companies. They desperately want him to fail and are blinded by their hate.

>You now realize Tesla is going to have to build an entirely new infrastructure to support the semi, since the current network of chargers isn't fast enough to power a semitruck.

Not seeing what the problem is here.

>Model 3 isn't selling because they can't make enough of them.

And this sounds like a great """problem""" to have.

Okay, thanks.

It is a problem; they've barely made a couple hundred when they said they would be making tens of thousands. And the ones they have made are almost all fucked up.

What if I don't work in any of those industries and what if I don't want Tesla to fail? What if I think it's kind of neat that somebody like Musk is trying to pull off big ideas?

Why do you irrationally project your hatred on me? What industry do you work in that you such a nut-hugger?

Whats happening to demand? I cant be bothered to google it.

and the fall of companies is linked to their inability to adapt to changing market conditions

bailout 2 :electric boogaloo -- in theaters 2020

Demand is irrelevant; their production process is absolutely fucked. They make the dealers install the seats and displays, for one, which has lead to several delivered vehicles not having those features.

>Demand is irrelevant

I see. Welp im out.

Mining lithium is cheaper than recycling it, and, surprise-surprise, we have capitalism. And even as we go forward these landfills will still be filled with batteries since they get harder to recycle as they sit and detetiorate.

It doesn't matter if they had 500 orders or 50,000, they can't meet it. Stop pretending to be smug.

Sounds a lot easier to solve if there's increased demand. I'm going to keep being smug because you just sound butthurt over tesla for whatever reason.

Pic related because its the only reason i replied.

> As the technology advances you may see it do 1000 miles on a charge or even more,
Except we're literally at the peak of known viable battery technology.
Electric fanboys go to argument is
>It'll get better!
It literally can't anymore. But what's worse is, we don't have the resources on Earth to do this on the scale needed for the entire global network rework to be economical.
Could commercial trucking switch to electric? Maybe, can the public switch to electric? No.
And their charging times are lies by the way.

Do you have a single argument to make or are you just going to keep spamming office gifs and saying "lolbutthurt"?

>not seeing what the problem is here
The problem is that it requires another giant infrastructure investment from a company that's already bleeding cash and running on loans.
>And this sounds like a great """problem""" to have.
You don't understand. It's not that they can't keep up with the massive demand, it's that their manufacturing process is 6 times slower than anticipated. The entire point of the model 3 was that it was going to propel Tesla into selling *mass produced* electric cars. They were supposed to manufacture 1600 Model 3 cars in Q3 2017 but they only managed to make 260. This is a huge problem since their profitability depends on the scalability.

>Mining lithium is cheaper than recycling it

Lithium makes up roughly 2% of a battery by mass. Lithium is not the limiting factory.

Overall battery costs favor recycling over making new ones. Nobody is going to miss an opportunity to make money by recycling and reselling.

Silver and gold make up a tiny fraction of consumer electronics, but it's still rarely economical even to store for later recycling rather than just consigning it to a landfill. I forget what happens to the platinum, rhodium, and paladium in old catalytic converters.

Battery recycling is already commonplace. It is happening as I type this post.

I am not sure you have a good grasp of the underlying economics and technology.

Edumacate me. I'm a big fan of recycling. In my city a bunch of guys with busted old trucks go around on trash day to pick up stuff off the curb they can make a few bux off of at the steel yard.

>Except we're literally at the peak of known..
Guys, we're at the peak of knowledge! Don't bother exploring space or the oceans, we already know everything there is to know!

>...viable battery technology
I can't believe you actually said that. Tomorrow somebody could make a discovery that improves lithium battery efficiency by 50%. There is plenty of room and brainpower for improvement as the technology matures.

>The entire point of the model 3 was that it was going to propel Tesla into selling *mass produced* electric cars. They were supposed to manufacture 1600 Model 3 cars in Q3 2017 but they only managed to make 260. This is a huge problem since their profitability depends on the scalability.

The thing is that Tesla will solve production-related issues and glitches soon and then Tesla would sky rocket. They are massively expanding and working not only on car production but on infrastructure as well.

You actually have no idea what you're talking about.

>believing speculation stock bubbles

>The thing is that Tesla will solve production-related issues and glitches soon
That's quite an assumption. What makes you think they're able to? They've NEVER been able to mass produce a car.

>t-tesla is going to fail any minute now
said the Veeky Forumstist nervously for the umpteenth time

Will it take a million miles with relatively low maintenance like a regular big rig can?

Or will that diminishing charge on those batteries (as well as their high replacement cost) fuck the economic viability of it?

First off just think about what car batteries are optimized for and what utility scale storage is optimized for.

In a car you need to maintain certain range and require a guarantee of power density in your cells. So if you fall below 70% of original capacity in ~8 years, this would be the time to start looking at a replacement. Since you just lost 30% of range in a car that probably only goes 300 miles.

At utility level it doesn't matter so much. Weight and volume are irrelevant, since you are not converting electric energy to kinetic. That 70% capacity battery pack is perfect for your needs. So you refurbish and add it to your grid. This is great for another ~20 years until the battery now finally falls below 25%, which is too low even for your needs.

So you send it back to the factory. They pop open the cell and see the level of degradation. There are a few options here. Some of which do include shipping them to foreign countries like China where they dump them, but others can include recovery of metals and substances. It really depends on the battery type. Laptop batteries can typically be recovered at very high rates, but others struggle.

>tfw there used to be a law stipulating trucks can only deliver within 100 miles
the rest was done by trains and tiny lorry's

Every company in the industry was NEVER able to mass produce a car.... until they finally did.

OK, that's a nice powerpoint slide for how your perfect world might operate. Which is nice. But I was asking about what actually happens, like the guys who make money sifting through trash in my city, or how the city determined that the less efficient single stream recycling program was actually more efficient because people barely recycle at all, let alone separate their recyclables.

Do you really believe that your anecdotal evidence is anything more than a rounding error given the grand scale of things?

Small issues will always seem big if they are in front of us.

No, I'm just effectively an engineer even though I'm a scientist by job title, so as much as I enjoy brainstorming and tossing around theory, at the end of the day it's the results that determine whether or not the ideas are any good and whether or not the sales pitches result in continued funding.

>Scientist
>Using anecdotal evidence

Your argument is the equivalent of someone claiming Global Warming is a hoax because they had a really cold winter this year.

My argument was structural, not anecdotal, friend; and you have failed to present a counter-argument. I'm really not clear on your adamant fanboyism beyond that it seems like a neat idea.

Hey if it works out that's great. I'm all for trying alternative technologies to see what works and what doesn't -- the experimental process, if you will.

Utility scale use of lithium batteries is a non starter. Thermal and gravity storage are way more practical at that scale.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

Is this not way cool? I mean WAY cool?

>As the technology advances you may see it do 1000 miles on a charge or even more, 20 years ago EVs could go maybe 60 or 70 miles on one charge and now look where we are
In 99' an EV1 could do 140 miles on a charge. Now Tesla is amazing because you can do 200 miles on a charge. Adding 1/4 more range over two decades is how things progress. Anybody promising you more is a fanboy or a scam artist.

That's still not an argument as for why Tesla will be able to do something it has never done before, even though they specifically tried with the model 3

>Another charger network is a GIANT investment and Tesla will never pull it off.
>implying Tesla needs to build the entire US EV charging infrastructure for the entire US all by themselves.
motherfucker look how fast (relatively) gas stations and their support infrastructure got built and set-up and running.

this is a massive new infrastructure system that could provide alot of jobs.

Elon Musk is about helping humanity make positive technological advancements.
its not just about Tesla Car company, its about getting society to move forward

>200 miles on a charge

Most of you idiot 4-wheelers don't drive more than that in a day anyway.

At the moment there are several projects in Europe with the aim to build several hundred chargers (per project) for EVs throughout central Europe with mostly just the purpose of advertising EVs. The projects are funded by either manufacturers, electric companies or market chains having stores near interstates/autobahnen. If enough companies jump on the EV semi hype there will be projects to build larger chargers.

uhh even the cheapest Tesla does 230 miles now.

also,

>using range as the only metric
lmao

on a scale of 1 to seekingalpha TSLA articles, the level of salt in Veeky Forums is actually pretty low. I'm sorta surprised

just gotta wait for the track times to be released. Once that angle of criticism is killed, what will be the next big one Tesla haters latch onto?

Here's your (you). Great post.

Somehow nobody mentions the incredibly low air resistance of the tesla semi. Am I the only one amazed by that?

Tesla is already heavily subsidized by the government.

> I wonder who will pay

Bingo. You think Elon planned to compete his way into the market? He is banking on laws coming in the next ten years to force you to use evs by taxing then outright banning ice in all plausible applications. I don't mind this in cities as using ice in a crowded place, especially the ones with bad air current circulation, is rampant stupidity (right now they are focusing on the carbon boogeyman because they can capture a larger market of idiots to tax).

Whether ev trucks take over long term i don't give a shit, far more important as has been noted is environmental health. Lithium - will it be recycled, and can that cost be born? Power plants that deliver to charging stations - will they be nuclear, old coal, scrubbed coal, oil coke, meme turbine?

EV's don't need a much cooling as an ICE, meaning you don't need to present as much big, flat radiator surface. So I'm really not surprised by the aero. Only thing is that the cab is too close to the trailer; this thing can't make right-hand turns on a two lane road. You ultimately have to be able to maneuver the truck where you want it to be and this isn't really able to do it without making that gap larger, which will consequently make the aero worse.

Also, those EV-1s could barely get out of their own way, and now we have this shit, I about fell out of my chair laughing when I saw this the first time.

youtube.com/watch?v=4FCb70blEMw