1994 Audi S4?

Shieeeeetttt I'm sad but not surprised. So how much did you end up spending? The main problems are electronics? Car is not worth it for a semi poorfag?

How accurate is this website?

It's a great car, but it's pretty old at this point so it'll need more care and maintenance than your average econobox. The engine and transmission are stupidly strong, the electronics less so, but at least they're relatively simple compared to modern cars.
Neglect isn't something these cars can take very well either.
Dealers will be very little help as most don't even know the S2 and UrS4 were a thing, so the online community will be your best bet for help.

There's a couple of UrS4/S6 owners on here too, one of them specifically got an epic bargain because the seller didn't know what he had.

For a cheaper, less obscure inline 5-powered alternative, look at Volvo 850s.

Just buy a Volvo, they're cheaper.

b4 and b5 Audis hold up better, desu. Old Volvos and certain French cars seem to be well galvanized as well. Though I have no idea if you can get a 406, or the like in canuckistan.

Ok cool, will look into that. What about an Audi 200? I found this one, 1989 with 100k km and looks in pretty mint condition. Only have to know what kind of I5 it has, the 197 or 217hp

Here it is

kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/laval-rive-nord/1989-audi-200-sedan/1309420041?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

There's no "20V" badge on the back, and from what I can tell the "quattro" badge replaces the "turbo" badge so I guess it could be a 137hp NA or 165hp turbo model as well.
It's probably not the 217hp 20V.

I got it for $2500 with 220k miles on it and no boosting beyond 0psi.

Kept it until 250k miles, spent $4500 on it mostly in parts. Fixed the sensor issue keeping it from boosting and got it caught up on maintenance.

The biggest thing to remember is they were $80k cars in today's dollars and they have $80k car maintenance requirements and part costs. As the other user said, run don't walk if the can't hasn't been cared for.

They really feel special though. It's incredibly rare that you can find a car with an engine so close to the racing powerplant. The vast majority of special cars either have a big normal engine in them or a tuned up version of a street engine (I'm looking at you BMW M). Having the actual racing powerplant just detuned feels like nothing else. It feels genuine.

Fuuuuckkk. Did it run well after the expenses? I want it so bad but I'm 99% sure I'll regret it. Why wasn't I born in a richass family?

S4/S6 fenders are different than regular 100/A6 fenders. Pretty much only come from cars being parted out.

Yep, it ran fantastic.

The problems were the interior was going to shit. The PO had it repainted with crappy paint that would not take a polish. And I just had this nagging feeling that something expensive was about to go.

Also the fuel mileage... I was getting a consistent 13mpg commuting to work. And that was back when gas was $4/gal

Still though, that was a luxury sedan with a group B engine. It really was something.

its a fucking audi
if you hate german cars you should realize audi is the one that encompasses all the bad things about any car.
Just get the engine and put it in something that deserves it.

I had a '93 and loved the shit out of it. Such a comfortable car even for long hauls and it was quick and very easy to get more power out of. Like others said, it was a money pit, there wasn't a month that I wasn't fixing something. Out of everything I've owned I miss it most.

>He has never owned or worked on an audi
Come back to us when you have

I have a '95 A4, so basically the babby brother of the S4.
And I can confirm that it just doesn't "do" rust.
The engine and transmission seem to give zero fucks about anything other than MOAR ÖIL BITTE and have coped effortlessly with its 250k.
However, the electrics turned to utter dogshit a few years ago with short everywhere. I ended up pulling the internal lighting fuse and it still doesn't like being "left alone".

>thinking audi were "bad" before 2000
Keep repeating the memes friend.

The B5 A4 is mostly unrelated to the C4 S4/S6.

90's Audis are not at all like what they became after 2000. Simple and robust, almost American in that regard.

That said, what I've found is that getting parts that are not chinesium is difficult. Everything will have to be ordered every time so even light maintenance has to be planned out in advance.

I'd love that, put it in a small RWD/AWD and it's the best thing ever

ill never own one because i don't want to be part of the brainlet poorfag club.
If I want a fwd car that's good i'll get a civic.
If I want luxury I'll get a benz
You can keep your rebadged passats with no handling

I remember my excitement when I found a local dealership with the window regulator I needed.

I remember my sadness after I discovered the doors are made out of three pieces with the inner core and interior frame floating, and both would have to be removed then realigned to get at the regulator.

I don't have to agree with this guy in some regard. It seemed like some of the ways the UrS4 is put together was simply to increase the amount of hours a shop gets to charge. I mean take the doors, why? Everybody gets by with single piece doors just fine. I can't think of another car where you have to realign the door just to replace the window regulator.
The timing belt is another example. The factory procedure is to nearly completely disassemble the front of the car, including remove the front bumper. Swing the radiator out (its on hinges) and then you get to actually start changing the timing belt.

I still want to buy another one ;_;

>fwd
kek buddi, enjoy your civic

>You can keep your rebadged passats with no handling
The UrS4 actually handled really well. If you knew how to wrangle an AWD car and you respected its mass, it was pretty damn good. It pretty much sold me on torsen based AWD systems as being king of the fully passive mountain.

How much can I
expect to save on labor if my skills are oil/tire/brake pad change tier?

So once you change the pieces, it will actually last? Or is it just doomed in repairs?

A lot because even dealerships make a meme out of it. These cars aren't nearly as difficult to work on as people make them out to be. It's literally just taking off bolts for disassembly and putting bolts back on for assembly, anyone who makes it out more difficult than it is is a retard. Like that one fag here

>So once you change the pieces, it will actually last? Or is it just doomed in repairs?
The thing you've gotta consider is that on a 250k car everything has had 250k miles of wear plus 25ish years of plastics and rubbers breaking down.

For example, you can replace all the sensors in the engine bay (which is nearly what I ended up doing) but all the wiring and all the connectors are 25 years old, so they are going to be brittle.
IIRC the chassis electrical harness under the dash was as big around as a Pringles can.

Look at it like this. Can you do maintenance and get the drivetrain reasonably solid? Sure. Same with the suspension, replace everything rubber and that wont give you trouble. But there will always probably be something somewhere else going wrong with it. The rear defroster wont work, or the leather in the seats will be falling apart or the gauge cluster might stop working sometimes until you pound on the dash. And when you take a step back to look at how much it would cost to rebuild everything you realize you are looking at $15-20k so you either sell the car, live with it Always Under Diagnostic Investigation, or you drop the bills to rebuild it.

And?
It was built in the same factory in Ingolstadt, using the same materials, the same common consumable stocks, and the same tools.
Surely that means it's entirely different in every possible way and will not have anything like the same aging properties, right?

Don't be dense. You're better than that.

Agreed. There wasn't anything insanely complex about it (except for some of the electrical) but everything mechanical was the same as every other car, just with more steps.

I drive an E36 these days and I would laugh at anybody telling me it is difficult to work on or I need to take it to a dealer. The germans do things a little different than the Japanese cars I learned to work on. They require special tools here and there. But for the most part they aren't any more difficult to work on. In fact I have yet to see a German car that is a nightmare like a TTZ32 or FD. I did have a friend that was a tech at the Mercedes dealer, sounds like those things went ultra complicated post 2000.

Shiet 15 to 20k$? Jesus, I think I'll pass. Why are all cool cars so much trouble and expensive. Good paying jobs that don't require that much training/education? I fell into the firefighting meme

ACKSHUALLY
The B5 was built in Ingolstadt, the C4 was built in Neckarshulm.

They're pretty different cars though, as the B5 S4 was the successor to the B4 S2, not the C4 S4/S6.
The B5 is a much newer design than the C4 and used more modern and more complicated everything, electronics, suspension, engines, you name it.
I suppose "baby brother" as in "younger and smaller" makes sense though.

The 2.8 V6 available in the B5 was an evolution of the 2.8 V6 available in the C4 though, and the 6-speed manuals from a C4 S4, B5 S4 and B4 S2 are pretty much interchangeable.

LOL as a former owner of a b5 don't every put that evil on anyone. The 2.7L twin turbo motor is mobile BP oil spill, it always finds a new place to leak from. Also the emissions aspects of the motor are costly and garbage.

Yo what about this?

kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/city-of-halifax/1991-audi-quattro-coupe-2-door/1314847971?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Are quattro coupe any better? Is it the same expensive/complicated headache as an S4? I has a 1993 i5 engine btw

Bump. Anyone help?

>Duct tape holding bumper on
>Halifuck
I wouldn't user.

The i5 in that is inferior to the aan that the urS cars got. You'd be getting all the headaches from the older S car without the good engine and drivetrain.

Wait that i5 is not the same as the S4? I thought there was only 1 model of i5

>total money pit

lol idk man, mine has been pretty cheap to own minus putting premium in it and getting 18-20mpg.

I own a 1995.5 S6 op. pic related. Just ticked over 234,500 miles a day or two ago. I drive it every day, ~40 mile commute. I've never had a single problem with it that stopped the car from functioning.

I believe the worst problem I've had was a coolant leak from a cracked plastic fitting (27 years and 220,000 miles after being installed) on the after-run pump.

Past that, oil changes and fuel is all she's asked.

They sound astounding. My car has gutted mufflers and resonators and when you press the go-pedal the noise behind you is wonderous. The cabin is insulated enough that if you don't have windows open though, you can barely hear that you're being a noisy cunt.

Turbo sounds are fun. The AWD is great and hasn't missed a beat. Seats are comfy yet hold you in place well enough.

Aftermarket is pretty large, but has a large cost barrier to entry. Tuning the stock ECU isn't great, so to compete with todays standards you have to move to a standalone for around a grand. After that, it's not too bad.

Forgot to add that I've owned the car for I believe 6 years now, and it has served as both a daily and a weekend toy depending on what other DDs I had at the time.

All the i5s are related to each other, but some versions are supposedly stronger than others.
The blocks are all stupidly overbuilt though, the biggest difference is usually in the internals.

It says in the ad he put a 2.1 20VT from an UrS4 in it.

I couldn't find anywhere about a 2.1 L 20VT, only the 2.2. So, it has the "strong engine"?

Also, how much can I hope to spend on this project? At only 500$ CAD, I am convinced that this car has been rebuilt or major damage. I emailed him, asked for a Carproof report and waiting for a response

> (You) #
It says in the ad he put a 2.1 20VT from an UrS4 in it.

Not sure if I believe it. Should be a 2.2L, but I also didn't read the ad.

Its because they are old. I look at low mileage old cars and get sticker shock probably as you do but then you've gotta consider how much work needs to go into making a 250k car factory fresh again. Were talking literally ripping the car down to the body, replacing everything then putting it back together with factory or better fit and finish.

So what a 25k mile UrS4 might sell for $20k, but then how much work would be involved in restoring a commuter that condition.

I don't know what to tell you about jobs. I was making good money in IT but after 10 years of it my mental health was gone. So I'm trying to figure something else out.

Yeah he probably mistyped it, the UrS4 had a 2.2l. The 200 did have a 2.1l turbo option, but that didn't have a 20V head.
And even though the 2.3 NA ones are considered "weaker" variants (probably due to slightly bigger bore/thinner cylinder wall), people still regularly build those things up for 1000hp. They're absurdly strong blocks.

Your interior looks absolutely fantastic for that mileage. I think you got a rare survivor.

Ok nice. Is there any way to visually know what kind of engine is it exactly? I assume he mated the engine to the original Quattro transmission. Can it handle the additional power from the UrS4 i5? What should I know about the 1991 Quattro? Is it as rust resistant an C4 S4?

Iirc the engine code should be stamped on the block near the bell housing.

I remember reading something about cam covers as well, but I don't know exactly.
The original Coupe transmission was probably an 016, which isn't a very strong 5-speed but should be enough to hold the 20VT's stock power.
If he did it right, he put the S4's 6-speed 01E in there too. The 01E is plenty strong, again there's people running 1000hp drag cars with mostly stock 01Es.

>All this butthurt talk
Lol, just get FRG Audi you scrub. Back then, cars were made to last.

They age really well, especially the non-black interior. It doesn't show leather cracks nearly as bad as the black cars do.

My car is in pretty poor condition though when you look at the examples being maintained by other enthusiasts. Tons of cars that are flawless or near it still on the road, just have to look in the right places.

Ok guys, he answered me for
Here's what he said:

>It's an original Quattro, not rebuilt. Lots of rust on underside, and a fair amount around the wheel arches and front windshield. Needs work. No Carproof. Hasn't been driven or registered for ~4 years or so.I will email you the VIN later tonight if I remember. It has a transplanted engine. It has no accident damage other than the right front plastic bumper guard hit a traffic cone at high speed and got smashed. It has the original 1991 Quattro tranny

Soo...? Worth it, even if it's rusted as fuck?

Eeeeehhhh, that sounds like an awful lot of work. It's a good base for a budget rally car like the ad says, but for something to actually drive it's probably not worth it inless you've got a well-equipped workshop, serious welding skills and plenty of time and money.

My eciru (sp?) Interior was completely gone by 220k. Huge hole in the drivers seat right where my balls went. Cracked leather everywhere. The color coating was getting worn off the plastics in little spots on the center console and lower dash panels. Stains everywhere. Still if it had been a black interior car it would have looked worse.
I know there are some really fine examples out there owned by people who unironically know what they've got.

Noooo fucckkk. Is rust reversible? Like, grind away the rust and apply something to protect the car? How much money are we talking about to make the car functionnal and viable for a few winters? As for skilled labor, I got 2 contacts that are very knowledgeable, one used to work on exotic cars

Depends on the severity. If it's just surface rust, it's a matter of a wire brush, sandpaper, rust converter, primer and some paint.
If it's all the way through the metal, you'll have yo cut out all the affected metal and weld in new clean steel. And the galvanized body is actually a drawback here, once the zinc coating has been pierced it tends to speed up corrosion, not slow it down.

Depends how deep the rust goes. If it's surface rust sure you can sand it off and recoat it. If it's deep you will have the replace the sheet metal.

>And the galvanized body is actually a drawback here
It also makes for some really nasty fumes

Yeah. Great when it's intact like it should be, an absolute pain in the dick when it's not.

Can't you just weld galvanized steel back? I'll ask him for more pictures

Not really. There's a good reason galvanizing is usually done after all the welding's finished, as said.

Fuuuckk. So am I better off with

Or continue with the project car if the rust is not to serious? The main thing about the project car is that it's 2.2 i5 has only 100k km so it's more likely to be in better condition than the OP

I'd go with the S4 if you want something you can drive for a while, the engines are easily the strongest part of these cars.
The Coupe needs a lot of work to take it back to good condition, or it could make a great donor for something like a 944 with a blown engine when the body gives up.

Porsche looks neat but I really want the AWD so I can drive in winter. How much are we talking about for the restoration? 2k? 4k? 10k?

Depends on the quality of the job and severity of the rust I guess, but honestly, welding galvanized metal isn't something I'd wanna tackle in my own garage.
That means you'd have to outsource it to a professional shop, and if you wanted the whole thing galvanized again you'd have to completely strip down the body, remove all of the paint, pay a company to dip it, get it repainted...
You get the idea. Surface rust would probably be manageable, but I fear it's more than just surface rust from the way he worded it.

The S4 would be cheaper for sure. That's not to say a Coupe Quattro doesn't have its upsides compared to an S4, it's physically lighter and smaller, much closer to the actual Group B rally cars.

Jesus, sounds like a +10k project. Is there such a thing as "frame fatigue"? Like even if you maintain your car, will the frame just start to give up? Many thanks by the way, I think I'll pass out on it but...it's just 500$...for the whole car with a 2.2 i5! Such a bargain

Haven't really heard of frame fatigue on modern unibody cars, they're plenty stiff. If anything in the frame breaks it's usually a subframe mounting point or shock tower, since those are areas where you get a lot of concentrated force.
And yeah, you'd probably pay more for that engine alone if you were to buy it separately, but then you'd need a shell to put it into when the old one goes, or you'd need to have enough space to store a car (or all the parts that are still good).

Ok cool thank you very much mate, I'll reconsider this. What I though I'd do is ship the car to my place (Halifax to Quebec), store it in some garage and then periodically work on it or pay people to do it for me. What's the best website for 1991 Audi Quattro parts?

Also are Quattro parts more expensive than UrS4 ones?

They're probably not very common either, but the Coupe shares a lot with the B3 and B4 80/90. Don't know the best place to get parts for them in Canada since I'm in Europe myself, although 034motorsport is a great source of speed parts.

Ok got another response of the guy

>VIN is WAUGE08B0MA003919. There are areas on the painted body with severe perforating rust. There is a lot of rust repair to do. That's why the price is so low.

He adds

>Frame rust too. Underside is quit rusty. Fuel lines have rusted through in the past

Sounds like you'd need a lot of dedication to get it back to good condition, or just buy it for the engine and drop it into a clean shell eventually.

Thank you for all your help. Anyone can run a VIN check on the car?

I can't run VIN checks unfortunately, I guess you could wait until a thread pops up or make a new one yourself.

just so you know 1980s group b ralley cars are about as fast as modern grocery getters

I still asked him for the engine number, just to be safe that it's not damaged. I think 500$ for a 100k km i5 is not that bad of a deal

I know. I want it because of the sound and as a personnal project

If it's an UrS4 engine, the code should be AAN.

Shieett he sold it already, less than 24h after posting it. Once in a life time opportunity wasted...

Just keep on looking, they're out there.
And North America may not have gotten the S2 lineup, but a B4 80 quattro will take an UrS4 engine and transmission no problem, which is pretty much what an S2 is anyway.

Are parts for the Audi coupe GT just as rare as for the original Audi quattro?

Pretty sure the Coupe GT was just a FWD B2 80 coupe.

Protip to anybody looking at a Coupe Quattro. The Audi 90 of the same year is exactly the same car in terms of platform and dimensions, even the wheelbase is the same.
Audi 90 quattros' might be easier to source.

Sort of, pretty sure the B4 80/90 has a few differences since the Coupe stayed on the B3 platform.

iirc the coupe got updated to the B4 platform see the S2/RS2

Apparently the Coupe is somewhere between the B3 and B4, with a shorter wheelbase than the B3, different rear suspension and more B4-like front suspension.
It did get a B4-style front at some point but I don't think the actual chassis changed.

RS2 was wagon only anyway.

I owned one about 8 years ago and do NOT miss it. brakes and rotors were expensive as shit. it wasn't fast. the seats are uncomfortable. these old but not classic cars just aren't practical. oh yeah, parts are a bitch to source too

bingo. they feel slow as shit and they're not cool and they're expensive to operate. and everything thinks you're poor, driving some audi beater. there's no redeemable quality.

I found some more interesting project cars:

kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/campbell-river/1990-audi-quattro-200-turbo/1300502676?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Then I just need to find a original S4 engine and transmission

>auto
I wouldn't, converting to manual would be yet another electronics headache to deal with. And you probably wouldn't even have to swap out the block, a 20V head should (keyword should) bolt right up although depending on the version you might need new pistons to clear the valves.

Achete une civic à 3k pi farme ta yeule

I love my urs4, the engine, the awd, they are just perfect. The rear locking diff on the earlier models really adds another level of fun in the rain / snow.