GT86/BRZ Debate

You're too poor

There are much better choices in the price range of them, hence being too expensive. Why get a GT86 when you can get literally anything else and have a better car?

The perfect car for people who want to make a fast car. Perfect weight distrubution and super light, tons of room in the engine bay, mechabically simple and easy to work on

I don’t have a problem with 200hp from a NA 2L 4 cylinder, the problem is the torque dip.

as a new car it's a shitty value, you can get wrx, ecoboost mustang, gti etc for the around the same price.

you can pick one up for $14-16k now with less than 50k miles which is a nice value, especially if you have an extra 5-10k cash to drop on sick power and handling mods

but if you ask me, the smart thing to do would be to just buy a car that has decent power to begin with and spend money on suspension and handling

or save up till you can put a huge down payment on a car that already has both good power and handling to begin with

it's a really great platform to work on with a huge aftermarket/modding community.

so far I've done a transmission/diff fluid swap, high intake air filter/intake pipe, UEL header install, and a stage 2 OFT tune. It drives really well now. Considering doing E85 as well for that last little power boost.

header+tune is the absolute best mod for the car as it gets rid of the shitty torque dip.

Also actual performance tires once you burn through the shitty low resistance stock ones.

Too expensive. The GT86 weighs around the same as a 240sx and makes more power stock. Slap some DI and it would be an awesome car. Problem is the GT86 is too expensive to begin with because it has a hefty sporty tax on it

...

sweet
I think what we need to lookout for are the used 86's. In the future i think they can become the next Silvias, hopefully they don't suffer the same ricer fate.

That's why I sold mine and got a 2010 Mustang GT, and later a 2013 Mustang GT. I already dropped the dollars to upgrade the suspension on the 2010, and it's much more exciting to drive than my FRS ever was concerning handling. The huge jump in torque (300 compared to like 140 both stock) is the best thing.

I don't really know. I test drove one and it was incredibly boring, and cramped too. If I was going to buy a new car to daily drive I'd much rather get something with a little more room and that is more fun to drive on the streets, while still being sporty enough to go for a drive in the canyons.

can't climb a hill and the fucking interior rattles like a piece of shit

Its probably under powered because Subaru engines suck dick and they knew it would have unacceptable failure rates. I don't understand the appeals of subarus. Plasticy as fuck, boring as fuck, H engines are buzzy dogshit, tons of issues they never seem to bother fixing (head gaskets, oil leaks, overheat it at all boom needs head gasket, and the cars are just ugly as fuck. I work in a subaru shop and I'm getting tired of these plastic windowframeless boring lesbian liberal pieces of shit. And what the fucks up with the cost of these thing? Performance models like a wrx cost like 17 grand used with a repaint (one example we just sold). Cool, now you have a buzzy plastic turd with a turbo for 17 grand.

>tons of issues they never seem to bother fixing (head gaskets, oil leaks, overheat it at all boom needs head gasket,
congrats regurgitating memes from 10+ years ago

>200hp isn't enough for a 2 litre sporty economy car
>158hp is heaps for a 2 litre 2 seater sports convertible

Miatfags are delusional....
>inb4 "the miata wasn't meant to make power"

Can confirm.
>friend bough brand new Liberty
>50 thousands Kilometers or so
>headgasket leaks oil onto the exhaust
>Subaru tell him there's not a lot they can do
Smells great......

>buzzy

What did he mean by this?

Headgaskets hasn't been an issue since old ass EJ25's from yester-decade. Its a shit meme you retards bitch about because you're an expert on every car you've never driven. The BRZ doesn't even use the EJ25, its the FA20 which has no known issues and has been in service since 2012

I know this question has been asked probably a million times, but is there a reason there isn't a turbo trim for this car? Obviously it would need upgraded suspension and brakes, resulting in a higher price point (and probably a lower take rate), but is there another reason?

>but is there a reason there isn't a turbo trim for this car?
probably because subaru didn't want to impede on its WRX sales

or toyota didn't want a turbo because they wanted to meme more about the AE86

>cramped too
t. obese amerishart

Holy shit this thread again, same stupid picture too

There has to be a more technical reason, otherwise tuned Toyobarus would be everywhere. Is the engine really that gimped?

>I work in a subaru shop

Sure you do.

Riddle me this Veeky Forums.

>FR-S
>200 hp rwd, laughed at for lack of power

>Integra Type R
>195hp fwd, touted as one of the greatest sports cars of all time

Why?

They shitposts for laughs they know it's a good car

Because the people who complain about the BRZ/FRS are retarded memelords that have no experience with either. They're literally just regurgitating shit they've heard from other uneducated retards.

The reason is that not every car has to be a huge horsepower monster. That is an american phenomenon that has been resurrected.
The 86 is exactly what people asked for, Its a sports car tuned for what it has to do. No doubt they could factory make it more powerful, but its not a pony car or a muscle car.

The last time the Integra Type R came to the US was nearly 20 years ago, Integra also revved to 9000 rpm and was lighter. There's nothing wrong with the Toyobaru but it is underpowered compared to other cars you can get new today.

More than laughed at for lack of power its laughed at for its shitty torque dip.

>touted as one of the greatest sports cars of all time

Its a cheap sportcars. If you want to go fast get something FWD or a pony.
>light
>fast
>rwd
Pick two or stop being poor and get a lotus.

You don't have to be poor to notice this.
In Australia these start at like 35k, for that much you can get a new SV6 Commodore (v6 chevy ss, for you Americans). The Commodore has more features, more comfortable, bigger engine with more power and importantly torque. Only benefit of the 86 is handling. I would say the 86 has the fuel economy benefit yet its pretty thirsty for a tiny car.

I would consider buying an 86 / BRZ in another 5-6 years when you can them for less than 5k.

This is the Commodore, look how much more car you can get for the same price compared to the 86.

Most boring car I have ever driven.

Absolutely boring to drive around town. And boring to sit in.

Try robbing a bank and using it as a getaway car. It's a fucking blast.

Try driving it every day, to and from work. It's not a blast

You're gonna get caught by the slow police because you're so sloiw

Maybe if it was a bank up in a canyon somewhere lel

Honest answer?

The B18C1, has to this day, been touted for it's smooth and frenetic power delivery. The engine is as bulletproof as you could possibly want or expect, with Type R engines going nearly 200k without issue.

Compare that to lol headgaskets and torque dip, and a two decade lead time.

The Type R has been universally praised for it's handling with incredible driving dynamics gleaned from not just a solid chassis to start with in the Integra, but that having been taken a legitimate step up with nearly every aspect of the car touched in some way. The car was faster than it's many competitors, much to the rave reviews of contemporary publications.

The Freeze/Breeze twins make excuses for their handling with meme tires, and no incremental improvements or options offered in the near FIVE years since it's debut. The Type R was nearly a living legend a mere two years after the entire third generation Integra was released.

Because the Inte R wiped the floor with its competitors. Even the GT-R was no match.

By better do you mean heavier or not rear wheel drive?

Its a meme? I fuckin said I work in a subaru shop and every subaru ever leaks. The H design is shitty in cars (good for airplanes which alot of subbie cucks tout, but airplanes get mandated FAA maintenance) but can't hold its oil and is literally buzzy. I fuckin die a bit on the inside everytime I get stuck on a curvy road behind a cuck lib subaru crossover doing 30mphin in 55mph huge s turns. This is literally every day going into work. Pull out from my driveway? Oh, 1 second too late, a subaru Tribecka is in front of me. Every fucking day. Twice a day. I don't understand how a human drives that slow. Is it not fucking boring? Is speed not enthralling? The fuck is wrong with you?And im just talking about doing the speed limit. 45-50 is a pleasant speed on country roads until you hit a subaru forester doing 22mph and it literally makes you late for work and ruins your day.Im an old benz guy, I literally hate everything plasticy and dogshit thats not an old benz. But subarus mostly.

its not bad, people complaining it has no power act like its a drag car or are just shit drivers.
I've seen even a mediocre driver make it punch up and slay boxters.
This and mrs and miata are memed as slowmobiles but only by garbage drivers and benchracers. Its faster than almost all bimmers in a 0-60 and it has godlike handling and great chassis.
It takes a good driver to make use of its weaknesses and strenghts and love it and a bad driver to select "d", mash on throttle and get btfo by a civic.
In real races on the track this car is absolutely amazing and among with ND the best current production cheap sportscar you can buy to get into goin fast.

Wait, literally every H4 ive even seen thats had any miles in the subbie shop has oil leaks from the head. They all had ej25s? For twenty fuckin years? what a lazy shit souless car company. No updated heads, nothing? They dont even bother turboing the H6 because its too troublesome and their literally an industrial equipment manufacturer that makes generators and shit and probably gives two fucks about their subaru line. Subarus are just a shit line from Fuji Heavy Industies. Sub's have no automotive soul.

>I get stuck on a curvy road behind a cuck lib subaru crossover doing 30mphin in 55mph huge s turns.

Western NC user here
glad someone else knows my pain
Subaru wagons are the new VW vans, there are hundreds of them in the Smokies being used as mobile homes and the rich old folks in town all have brand new XVs and Foresters that they drive as slow as fucking possible all the time.

I chose the picture to represent a tuned BRZ.
And it looks straight out of UG2.
I don't know about the other threads but i just wanted to reach a consensus.

Why did you even bother typing all that shit?

>faster than almost all bimmers in 0-60

Except its slower than every single fucking one of them.

from the looks of it, it requires $1000 in mods (header, tune) to fix the torque dip and add about ~50hp, so theres a large barrier to entry.
It's not like other platforms where you can just crank up the boost and easily make shit ton of power. No turbo kills it.

You're right about that to a significant degree. If it's a car you love then you love to sit in it and you eagerly await the next opportunity to flick it around a corner or whatever. But it can be distinctly uninspiring when you're not making it work.

I have one and i'm perfectly content with its power. Its gas efficient in the low rpms which get me to over 30mpgs and when i want to have fun, I just shift at around 4.5k. That and turn off traction control and slide it around a bit.

You know it's fucked when the Hachiroku's in my country (Portugal) are about 9k-13k while the GT86's are 28-34k used.
That being said our used car market is honestly shit. Any other tugas to confirm?

If you told me
>user this is the best you can do with your budget, the other girls all have their problems, too.
I would say
>oh...
>well alright
>I'ma go have more sex :D

If you told me
>you know user
>for another 10 grand you could have the woman of your dreams
I would say
>hmmm
>can I try it and find out if it really hits the spot that much better?

What did he mean by this?

t. manlet

if it had a 2gr or a turbo toyota engine id be a lot more likely to own one.
i dont like the flat four, its too difficult to work on and is notorious for failures to head gaskets, and fucking bearings due to oil starvation.

needs a turbo 2.0 I4, or a NA 3.5 v6

maybe he's yuropoors

I'm guessing English is not your first language user

I'm thinking it should be a little less loud. You don't get much out of the engine unless you crank it up, and even then you don't get much but that's where the car starts to feel right.

It sounds like loud shit anyway so if it already falls on its face in the torque dip in 2nd gear and aftermarket exhausts don't do all that much, then in stock form make it quiet until you get up into that 5500RPM+ range where it starts to sing and you're not driving like a grandma up there anyway.

And for that matter let's have it go to 8k at least. If the point is a little revvy 4cyl then let's get it on. It feels too easy to bang the limiter the way it is. There has to be more there.

>failures to head gaskets
The FA20 is not afflicted with this. In fact, most boxer engines aren't. Only A few select years of the turbocharged variants of the EJ25 have this problem.

>fucking bearings due to oil starvation
This only happens to people who don't take proper care of their car. (no regular oil changes, doing doughnuts for several minutes straight, etc.)

And one of the biggest crimes on the car is the vidya gaem throttle.

Give me a cable throttle god damn it. I don't care about your red intake. I want an engine that gets up and goes at the tip of my toes, not some pansy ECU engine map mess. It could be such a brilliant car if you could work out the finer points. It feels like dumping 12 cups of pudding down a hill off-throttle.

The 1997-2001 Integra Type R costs the same as a 2017 Civic Type R once you adjust for inflation ($31-34k). And they both had ridiculous markups when they were new.

And no it handled worse than the NB Miata and was slower all-around than a way cheaper (by $5-7000) New Edge Mustang GT.

>valve cover gaskets leak

wow big surprise

To miss out on a massive chunk of the market by being a convertible with two seats and less total storage space than an MR2.

its too expensive to just be a "good starter"

if thats the exact logic, tuning a V6 mustang with suspension, tires, forced induction, transmission, axle ratio, weight loss and other things is the same thing, and would be faster

but a v6 mustang has absolutely no hype

the 86 is a hype machine

the hype is what destroyed that car

so much fucking this
a brand new miata starts at 26k
the 45k new price on the 86 is NOT helping the used prices either for those saying its the next 240sx

>45k new
where the fuck do you live user

...

Sucks to be Huezillian

the annoying thing is that even with tax and euro conversion the price still manages to be lower than the US price
this markup pretty much kills the 86 in yurop
in baguetteland its 32k, like what the fuck?

my only gripe is that its too much fucking money and too tight of an engine bay to get forced induction in them

Nope, oil leak comes from the headgasket - not the cam cover gasket.

>muh v6 mustang
Different category of car user.

Perhaps, but the logic is the same.

Saying something has potential is the bane of car enthusiasm.

It's also the first thing someone with a poor performance car will tell you.

It might have potential, but it currently doesn't meet that potential.

>a car from 1997 is judged differently than a car from 2017

>police in cali have sportbikes and know how to drift their boats

not so fast!

You wont (and no one has) rally a miata

Confirmed for being a massive fucking idiot considering i just fixed this issue on my V3 STi engine pissing out oil from the VCG

what's even more fun is when I'm going down a dirt road in my Miata and I easily catch up with some cunt in a Subie who is scared shitless of breaking traction if they go over 5mph in the dirt. I swear to fuck that timid drivers should have their licenses revoked and be sterilized

...

WRONG

>yeah my son is 29 and still lives in my basement and has no job...but he has so much potential!

FAKE NEWS. SAD.

I've seen meteoric rises from guys stuck in 20s limbo, turn around and make massive use of their lives in ways which astound me.

I don't like your argument, because I was one of those guys.

;_;

...

You are correct in that they ALSO leak oil from the Cam cover (just needs a simple tighten) but they often leak oil from the headgasket which isn't such a simple fix.

That's the thing though. The miata has to be *that* much better to make the jump and give up the little bits of DD practicality for a more pure experience the 95% it's just you, the car, the road, and a little something in the trunk or the passenger seat.

And I'm never going to know until I get some good seat time in a miata. What I will admit is that if you don't try to push an 86 somewhere near or past its limits then you're really missing out on the best it has to offer.

Why do you fucking retards never get tired of discussing this damn car, holy shit it's autism every time I scroll up and down these threads, just people sperging out about a car they don't like