Starting to get interested in BMW 3 series

PS the neighbor I mentioned has been the sole owner of their '88 325i, and their 20yo son works on Bimmers for a living. They'll be with him every step of the way so we're in good hands.

as a weekend pride and beauty, yea go for it. But as an DD, you can forget about it.

I know its romantic to DD a classic, especially an E30, but you will soon regret the lack of power steering, power anything in fact, Bluetooth, sound insulation, poor performance, air conditioning and general comfort.

An E46 or E90 318i make for much better DD cars, and they are both pretty cheap these days. Especially the E90 since it is by no means a sports version - its a sensible car for regular people which dont want sportivity.

>power steering
Could you clarify? I don't know too much myself either
>power anything
He doesn't care too much about acceleration, speed etc. and as long as it is fuel efficient I don't either
>bluetooth/sound insulation
Those are sorta minor things that don't make or break a car IMO. Bluetooth can be supplemented with speakerphone.
>poor performance
Could you clarify? As in, poor fuel economy?
>AC
We're not buying one with a nonfunctional AC, we had the opportunity to get one for cheap and passed because of the AC
>general comfort
Compared to?

Also the 325ix (e30) and the xi models (e46). Which are AWD

t. faggot

>tfw my younger brother recently trashed the "family" E36 because he thought it was a good idea to drive home late in the evening, in December, with RWD, summer tires and over a specific unsalted piece of road.

you should rape him

At first glance the damage doesn't look even that bad. But when you take a better look at the details, it's just an economic total loss. At least we saved those cool rims.

Not him, but I can help clarify.
>Power steering
A lot of older or performance oriented cars do not have power steering racks. Power steering allows a driver to turn the wheel easier at lower speeds. My 1991 civic si does not have a power steering rack and is a real bitch to turn at low speeds. I think e30s came with power steering optional.
>Sound insulation
You WILL notice this, sound insulation has come a long way since the mid80s early90s. Unless you plan on insulating the area b/w the metal frame and interior, road noise will be a constant reminder that you bought an older car.
>poor performance
Today's vehicles crush the e30 in terms of performance, both on 0-60 times and fuel economy. If your son wants a fast car that is good on fuel, it probably won't be the e30. If your son wants a fun car that's okay on gas than it's fine.
>AC
If you do decide to buy an e30 with AC make sure the AC system has been upgraded to the r134a system b/c the r12 is obsolete and refrigerant is very difficult to find.
>General comfort
Compared to anything made after like 2000.

Unless you are one of the the rare people who can put up with all the weird annoying shit an old car can throw at you, get a newer civic.

Thanks. Does an E36 solve sound insulation and guarantee r134a?

>how do the models work
idk about e30 but for e46 if you dont plan on getting an m you're either gonna get:
>a 330i, which has more power and options
>a 323i, which has less power but is more barebones and easier to strip out without having the car yell at you, and therefore lighter
>a 325i, which is irrelevant
all models can be shark injected but i think the 330 squeezes out the least gains as bmw got the most hp out of the block already

>Sound insulation
dynamat

Gonna piggyback on OPs topic. Looking at getting an 02-05 m3 as a first bimmer, im aware of the major problems like vanos issues and subframe damage, is there anything else i should look for as far as a like a litmus test to gauge how well its been taken care of? I plan on taking whatever car im looking at into a dealer or certified garage for PPI

>power steering
E30s have this, do the US versions not?
>power anything in fact,
Depending on year, a good amount if powered. If the early 80s era 5 series had power seats.
>Bluetooth,
Retrofit but not essential. I have this in my 05 5 series but have never bothered to hook it up.
>sound insulation,
Hard to say on this one but they're quite a few steps above other cars of their time.
>poor performance,
If you buy a smaller engine model that's been not well maintained, of course.
>air conditioning
Standard but I'm guessing optional in some places like the US?
>general comfort
We both know many older cars can be more comfortable than they're modern counterparts. A 70s Cadillac will be like driving in the clouds compared to a modern Cadillac.

>ugh yuck this car doesn't have bluetooth icky!

Damn that looks good without all the lower trim.

i = fuel injector
e = eco?
s = sport (so "is" = fuel injector, sport)
x = all wheel drive
d = diesel
L = long wheelbase

I thought the E46 ic was smaller; a predecessor to the 1 series.

>E30, but you will soon regret the lack of power steering, power anything in fact
Fuck your self up boy. Nearly all E30s have power steering aside from europoor-spec 316s. And 325/318is commonly came with power windows and power locks. No bluetooth? Fuck that shit anyway, any half-ass decent aftermarket head unit will have it in the first place.

As for poor performance, a stock E30 325i is still faster than the E90 318i you've recommended for fuck's sake, by virtue of having 20 more horsepower and weighing 400lbs less.

The reason an E30 isn't a great DD is because they're becoming expensive and hard to find in good shape, god forbid something happen to it you'll be in a world of hurt fighting the insurance company for a fair go.

Are E90s shit? I kinda want one.

The E46 marked the end of BMW making quality cars, the introduction E90 marked the beginning of the downhill plunge.
Enjoy your
>electrical problems
>needing a computer to replace anything because everything is CAN
>shitty coils
>shitty water pumps
>expensive parts

Yeah I should have welded up all the holes, too late now gotta put the trim back on

Backwards day, the post.

I'll concede the garbage plastic cooling system but the rest not so much. They're pretty tight for the most part and parts aren't that bad. Anything after the E90 isn't DIY friendly though.

They’re fine just avoid the 335i. Water pump will need replacing around 80-90k miles, as well as rad hoses. Other than that they’re a totally capable daily.

>What should I look out for if getting an E36?

Cooling system
Maintenance records
RTABs done, pockets aren't falling out
Front strut tops aren't cracking
Motor mounts aren't cracking
Rear sub-frame mounts aren't cracking
8/10 chance the interior is going to be falling apart
Electrical problems
VANOS noise/function

I'm probably forgetting some

>how expensive can they get?
There is no such thing as a cheap BMW. If maintenance hasn't been done or the car shows signs of abuse, walk away.

Are there decent aftermarket water pumps?

>8/10 chance the interior is going to be falling apart
I had an E36 and the interior was probably the most solid part imo. The seat wear can be pretty bad but the rest of it managed to stay in incredible condition.
Not many electrical problems either but in classic BMW fashion, plastic water pump impeller. WHY.

Yeah of course, the aftermarket ones are all metal and will last forever. I replaced mine in my e60 and it’s been perfect ever since. Totally worth it for a fun, comfy daily.

How much would I be looking at for one?

if you own an e90 you can still DIY, you will just need to invest in the BMW exclusive diagnostic tool.

I have owned e90 325i and an e82 128i, which is just built after leftover e90 spare parts. They are on par with reliability if you do preventive maintenance and are savvy enough to not let 3rd part mechanics take you for a ride you will be fine. I guess that's pretty par with other German cars. I really like the e90 steering they make a great highway car and can hoon on the backroads decently. I would be very hesitant to buy a non-enthusiast owned car. BMW specs like 10k oil changes and many over even longer than that, if you can find one that was taken care of go for it.

Around $300

>in classic BMW fashion, plastic water pump impeller. WHY.

Klaus:
>haha Heinrich, the american car is so full of plastic. Plastic seat, plastic dashboard, plastic bumper

Heinrich:
>Look at ze Saturn, entire body is plastic! hahaha!

Klaus:
>Stupid americans! By the way Heinrich, we need to cut the cost of the water pump so we can get a bonus this year

Heinrich:
>Let's make the impeller plastic!

Together:
>WUNDERBAR!

That's not bad, I was expecting about $500.

Get an e34, e30s are great too. If you can find a good condition 2002 scoop it up. There's a lot of good BMWs to wrench on, those are just my favorite.

On the subject of E90s, just how bad are the 320s? I've heard the 2.0 engine was the worst engine the company ever made but it's the most common one I see on the road and for sale.

That’s probably what it would cost to have a shop redo the whole cooling system for you. Honestly you can buy the pump and hoses and do it yourself though, it’s not hard. The hoses are cheap as fuck.

Thanks for the advice, lads. In the price range I'm looking at for a gently used car, even setting aside more money for repairs, parts, and preventative maintenance, E90s still come out at a pretty good price, and tick off a lot of boxes for what I want from a car.

>first 5 series offered as an estate
>first 5 series with AWD
>last with the exposed twin headlight look
>most reliable 5 series ever made
>numerous awards won for safety and reliability
Sad that it doesn't get much appreciation though.

I've never done a water pump replacement before but if the E90 is still relatively easy, maybe it won't be so bad. The only hoses I've ever done were power steering hoses on an E34 (which was so simple it's incredible).

You’re welcome bud, don’t let memes misguide you, you’ll have a good time with the e90 as long as you don’t neglect it.

It’s not a big job honestly, I was pleasantly surprised to find the N52 pretty easy to work on

oh the last thing, the early Idrive cars are known to have issues. If you can avoid it do so, it not it will be annoying to use but livable.

wat? Have you ever even seen an E30?

I DD an E30 325is for 6 years. It had power steering, ice cold a/c, power windows, door locks, comfy recaro sport seats, and a pretty decent factory stereo. All factory standard options.

along with factory ABS brakes which worked great too forgot to mention....

my advice is get a non m for your first so you know how to service an m later
quick tip if you want to knock down the price a little ask them to roll down the windows because there's a 60% chance that the regulators are fucked
otherwise just check the basic old car stuff
>control arm bushings
>make sure the front wheels dont jiggle
>make sure you can go over 40, otherwise the MAF is bad
>engine/transmission mounts, make sure the engine doesn't move around too much
>power steering leak (very common)
>make sure the vcg isnt leaking, after 15 years it tends to become a solid piece of plastic
>coolant system is absolutely janq. make sure the expansion tank doesn't have a crack on the back of it because thats where it tends to happen

more hp but like half the torque of an e46 so it just spins in place

>more hp but like half the torque of an e46 so it just spins in place
wut

power means nothing without torque

No you idiot, wut as in "what the literal fuck are you talking about?"

I can't speak to the e46 as I haven't had one (currently have jzx100 chaser and mk4 gti)
but i've had an e30 325i and e36 325i and I would suggest strongly that they are the ones to go for, E36 non vanos 325i specifically.
Both cars were much more reliable and cheaper to maintain than my current crop.

The 325i in the e30 responds well to a turbo because of its low compression if you want to go that route in the future and the e36 325i can be turbo'd or supercharger for not enormous sums of money (you'll need head gasket spacer to reduce compression).

if budget is the main concern go the e36 as they're everywhere and cheap. Don't go an auto because who can be fucked swapping it to manual later.

Also if you want coilovers on the e30 they have to be welded in on the front, so you're pretty much stuck with the e30 spec racing suspension as the best $$ option. e36 can run coils in the front without headache.

Don't be tempted by the 328i, everyone I know who's had one has had bad experiences.

You're n idiot and don't know what you're talking about. You're wrong about literally everything except sound insulation which is one of the best parts when you're thrashing it around.

I DD'd my e30 325i for nearly 5 years and all I had to do was the clutch and fuel pump (thanks clogged fuel filter) total cost about 250 for clutch and 100 for fuel pump, the rest was all generic maintenance. AND, AND it had 270,000km's on it.

I'd even make the argument to the dad guy that you should help your son get an older car like this so that he can experience wiring up a new headunit with bluetooth, experience adjusting the valves with a feeler gauge and maybe fixing some odd problems that pop up. It's so easy to work on and every car after it will be more difficult. (although the clutch on the e30 is a fucking nightmare job, doable but pain in the ass)

>more hp but like half the torque of an e46 so it just spins in place

E46 325i: 175lb-ft
E90 325i: 184lb-ft

E46 330i: 222lb-ft
E90 330i: 221lb-ft

E46 M3: 269lb-ft
E90 M3: 294lb-ft

So, with that demonstrated; what in the living fuck are you talking about?

yeah the guy's a moron

>
>You're n idiot and don't know what you're talking about. You're wrong about literally everything except sound insulation which is one of the best parts when you're thrashing it around.
Yea I didn't want to be an ass and tell the guy but basically everything I've read on the internet went directly against what he had to say. My son won't give a shit about sound insulation either though it'd probably be nice were I to ever take the thing out.
>I DD'd my e30 325i for nearly 5 years and all I had to do was the clutch and fuel pump (thanks clogged fuel filter) total cost about 250 for clutch and 100 for fuel pump, the rest was all generic maintenance. AND, AND it had 270,000km's on it.
That's good, because I can't seem to find one under 170k mi. Most are upwards of 200k. Everyone says that mileage doesn't matter in these as long as they're maintained though.
>I'd even make the argument to the dad guy that you should help your son get an older car like this so that he can experience wiring up a new headunit with bluetooth, experience adjusting the valves with a feeler gauge and maybe fixing some odd problems that pop up. It's so easy to work on and every car after it will be more difficult. (although the clutch on the e30 is a fucking nightmare job, doable but pain in the ass)
That'd be fun, I don't know jack shit about cars but hey. Learning experience. Plus we've got those neighbors I was talking about.

He'd love it, with e30's you don't have to know anything about working on cars and the tool requirements are pretty minimal. A DIY for literally every job exists in great detail. The Bentley manual is a great resource for them but forums are just as good. If photobucket has ko'd them you can usually find the DIY on pelican parts.

Also pretty much anywhere you live you can find a good euro parts shop that has parts for them, if not local then online has great resources (especially pelican parts if you're not down under)

Mileage isn't a big issue, plenty of them go north of 500k km's before dying. Mobil even ran one non stop on a rolling road for a million haha

youtube.com/watch?v=gHmMlU8Q-V8

Holy shit. I might get one for myself too as a weekend car. Thanks user

I own a 328i and its a really nice car, ice only encountered problems with the meme cup holders and the previous owner did an oil change with fucking pennzoil instead of castrol and i recently replaced a coil at 55k miles but its a solid car.

Put spec e30 suspension in it if you do.

Here are some awesome videos on them on YT:
youtube.com/watch?v=iBkObmAPvs0
youtube.com/watch?v=adU1V9aiZqM&t=611s

The /drive one makes me want to neck myself thinking that I hit a roo and wrecked it :(
I'd have killed to had turbo'd that car

That's the ti

a "good" E36 M3 will run you roughly 10k and the market is pretty weird. Theres deals to be had if you're willing to work on it but the really cheap ones are basketcases. Parts are cheap and its all pretty straight forward. Theres endless support for these cars so you cant really get that lost.

If you get a non M go for the 328is as you get the glorious ZF trans over the shitty Getrag from the older cars