What are the opinions on fuel system cleaners?

What are the opinions on fuel system cleaners?

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gasprices.aaa.com/fuel-quality/
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Mostly useless for modern cars as they burn fairly clean, can be useful on older cars and diesels though or if you use shit fuel a lot.

useless, gasoline and oils already have surfactants in it for this purpose

I work as a parts manager at a dealership for the last 15 years. For the first 3 years we had Techron on all the major services. In that time we never replaced fuel sending units in any of the cars that came in for regular service. To cut cost & make the services cheaper they removed the Techron from all schedule services. Within 2 years I was stocking fuel senders for almost every model in our lineup. I don’t know what it does for injectors, but Techron definitely stops the corrision that makes the sending units fail 100%.

Techron contains a specially engineered solvent molecule that no other fuel system cleaner has. It is considered to be the single best compound for cleaning out fuel systems.

Maybe if you have an older car with a fuel system full of shit.
I don't, so I don't need it.

used a bottle of it and some seafoam to clean stuck injectors on an old car that had been sitting forever. no reason to use it unless you know you're having fuel delivery problems though.

Used on clean fuel systems what it does is work to prevent buildup

its PEA (poly ether amine) and all good cleaners have this (like gumout) techron just had it 1st.

just fill up on nothing but chevron gas and you shouldn't see a problem. use some if your experiencing problems with long term usage of cheap shit gas but it seems that the positive effects are limited to the injectors and the valves (if the valves are downstream of the injectors)

Chris fix did a test and found that it did fuck all for the carbon buildup in the pistons

So which one do you recommend? Chevron fuel system cleaner or the fuel injector one? There's like multiple ones

That doesn't surprise me. You have to freaking scrub like a madman to get burned-in carbon deposits off of exhaust tips, I doubt a little bit of solvent is going to make a big difference.

Injecting water vapor into the combustion chamber via the throttle body, though, can make a big difference. You're basically steam-cleaning and it actually works. Engine has to be warmed up and you need a second person to apply throttle at The right time though.

Cleaning deposits also might be a bad idea is you have a really high mileage car - those hardened deposits might be the only thing keeping compression up in some of those cylinders.

>Cleaning deposits also might be a bad idea is you have a really high mileage car - those hardened deposits might be the only thing keeping compression up in some of those cylinders.

wisdom

>What are the opinions on fuel system cleaners?
In normal car usage, my opinion is that it is unnecessary for those people who consistently use Top Tier gasoline. That gas has a more dilute form of one of the main cleaning ingredients in the fuel system cleaner - PEA (amine detergent).

If you had a dirty fuel system, then of course you'd use a fuel system cleaner. What would cause that? Maybe you have a fuel tank that had a small amount of fuel that dried out and left residue. You are now re-using that tank in the car that you are reviving. Most people would clean the tank, but let's say you are lazy and just dump some fuel system cleaner into it instead.

>What are the opinions on fuel system cleaners?
They continue to exist in the marketplace due to product sales inertia. The key is to realize they appeared on the market in the previous century before the existence of Top Tier Gasoline standards. Back then, these products co-existed with leaded gasoline.

As years passed, Top Tier gasoline appeared along with Costco Kirkland Signature gasoline which has 5X the detergent required by the EPA. Costco determined with tests independent of those by the top tier consortium that the 5X detergent level was what worked for selling to its membership.

So, gasoline has changed since the decades when the branded fuel system cleaner additives appeared. If there were zero fuel system cleaner additives created to this date, would the market allow for the creation and selling of such products? If so, then there is still perceived need. But the debate would be more honest because there would be no prior sales inertia and product brand loyalty to contend with amongst those posting opinions on whether or not the market still needs fuel system cleaners for those already using Top Tier fuel.

For people not using Top Tier gasoline, I would say the occasional bottle of Techron is good to use. Crude oil varies greatly in quality all the time depending on where it came from. The refineries process the crude and extract what is good enough to sell. Top Tier gasoline base stock would probably receive additional processing because it has a more stringent sulfur standard. It's not like all crude oil is "light sweet crude" from Brent.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_sweet_crude

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_crude_oil

Clearly, from a cost standpoint, sour crude has a higher chance of being processed into NON top tier gasoline stock. It costs more money to perform the additional processing to remove the sulfur after all.

im gonna tl;dr this with: buy good gas or get fucked paying for cleaners

Wait so the Costco gas is high quality and cheaper than other places? Wow that must be why there's always such a long line for it.

>the Costco gas is high quality and cheaper than other places?

Costco explains their gasoline in the April 2014 edition of their Costco Connection publications created for their members. The article describes the rationale for gas quality standards and how they maintain the costco quality standards for their gasoline.

But you don't GET 'buildup' with modern fuel and fuel systems.
Maybe if you live in the United States of Adulterated Fuel you do, but not in the rest of the world.

>But you don't GET 'buildup' with modern fuel systems
Actualy modern direct injection systems are more prone to build up deposits in their injectors a well as intake valves.
The reason is that these modern injectors have smaller holes to inject fuel, wich get clogged up more and heat up during operation much more.
Also the intake valves don get sprayed down with fuel in these engines and build up carbon deposits from the oil the PCV system sends there.

Fuel system cleaner

this

>direct injection
The old style direct injection method didn't have any fuel sprayed on the intake valves. Thus carbon buildup occurred despite fuel system cleaners or Top Tier gas being used. Cleaning additives in the fuel don't work if they aren't sprayed on the valve.

The car manufacturers have learned their lesson and some like Toyota have moved on to variations of direct injection which also spray some fuel on the intake valve so that the detergents in fuel can clean those injectors.

Otherwise, DIY people will have to use that CRC direct-injection intake valve cleaner. The main active ingredient in the CRC cleaner is PEA but it is far more concentrated than what fuel additives use. The long straw is to bypass the MAF sensor so that the sensor doesn't get contaminated.

More info on the CRC Intake Valve Cleaner:
crcindustries.com/products/gdi-ivd-174-intake-valve-cleaner-11-wt-oz-05319.html

For direct injection, it's good to help prevent microscopic deposits from accumulating. If you follow service schedules or do injector services on your own shitbox then you really don't need them.

Top tier gas doesn't mean jack shit. Talk to a truck driver who fills the tanks at your preferred gas station. When they fill the tanks all the crud at the bottom gets stirred up and can make the fuel coming out of the nozzle cloudy. Even if you fill up at a newer gas station the tanks the tanker trucks fill up at may have been installed 25 years ago.
Also depending on season and locations they mix 94 octane with old batches of 87 or what is now 84 octane because the gas has been sitting in storage for a couple of months and has degraded.
You can smell bad gas that the tanker trucks are filling the gas station tanks with sometimes because during fall and spring people aren't taking that many vacations or road trips so Shell, Chevron, Costco etc all don't sell that much so the shitty gas in the tanks is topped up with fresh 98 octane straight from the refinery in order to get it back to 87 octane.

>When they fill the tanks all the crud at the bottom gets stirred up and can make the fuel coming out of the nozzle cloudy.

That's at franchised stations whose franchise operators skimped on fuel filter maintenance. Cloudy debris is stopped by the properly working station filter. If you read the Costco article, the costco stations regularly maintain fuel filters and also regularly check storage tanks pump out tanks with water in them. That's in contrast to branded franchise stations whose owners might cheat customers by diluting the fuel.

Costco also doesn't trust 3rd party suppliers to apply additives properly. In the article describing its fuel practices, Costco purchases the applicable top tier gasoline base stock and then adds necessary additives at the gas station in order to be certain the fuel contains the required expensive additives.

PEA is the only thing to look for
Redline has the most PEA

we invented gas and cars you faggot

and then you fucked both up. your point is stupid.

>Top tier gas doesn't mean jack shit.
Wrong.

>trust an user on Veeky Forums instead of independent testing
yeah nah

My dad delivers gas and says shit like this all the time I just never payed attention til I started reading things here.

I used to work out at a Costco gas station and can confirm this, but....This reads like someone involved with the company is pushing the product.

any of this shit should matter why? You have a fuel filter in your car so cloudy gas shouldn't be a problem and as long as its 87 octane, it shouldn't matter how it got there.

Does Costco clean out these distributor tanks? And water is one thing but I'm worried about rust, dirt, particles from the inside of hoses that make it through conventional fuel filters
Top tier gas is good obviously with the detergents and addictive I'm not denying their benefit. It's the corporate fuel tanks like I pictured that fill up the semis that deliver to franchises or Costco or Bill's gas station.
What other weird or paranoid things did he talk about?
Why put all your trust the sock on the fuel sender, and the inline filter? If I actually upgraded my fuel pump, rail and injectors I wouldn't want to risk my money and effort on as $30 part.

>Why put all your trust the sock on the fuel sender, and the inline filter? If I actually upgraded my fuel pump, rail and injectors I wouldn't want to risk my money and effort on as $30 part.

because there is no where for the fuel to go in a fuel filter but through the media and since nothing all that violent gets into the lines then the media never really gets holes to fuck filtration. thus the rails and injectors should never see the effects of the low amount of sediment kicked up in a storage tank.

as for the pump, yes I can see that getting fucked potentially if you continuously use cheap gas and/or somehow keep getting this sediment gas with regularity. In such cases a bottle of techron might actually be a good idea once a month (if for nothing other than your peace of mind)

>Does Costco clean out these distributor tanks?
Why don't you ask them the next time you are at the warehouse store? You can always try to set up an appointment to meet with the manager or pose your question at their customer information center. If they decide the manager can answer your question, then they'll find a time for you to meet. Of course, different Costco's have somewhat different personalities. The one I go to is fairly friendly and the manager is sort of accessible since he even runs around on the floor every so often.

>I doubt a little bit of solvent is going to make a big difference.
PEA is not a solvent. It is an amine that works on carbon deposits.

CocksCo Internet Defense Force spotted

He literally said he worked for them

>Does Costco clean out these distributor tanks?
Those are storage tanks at the terminal head. They are under control of whoever owns the terminal head and would be regulated by the government and its safety and performance regulations. Deregulation probably has removed or reduced the rules regulating the cleaning and maintenance of these tanks. That's what deregulation is about anyways - the reduction of laws and guidance rules regulating many things. Companies gather together whatever profit-enhancing rule reductions they can and submit them for deregulation. An obvious one would be the expensive cleaning of the tanks since the tanks have to be empty and taking a tank offline for cleaning means reduction of profits.

>the fuel comes out of the nozzle cloudy
Each gas station has a fuel filter for each fuel type to prevent that. If your gas station doesn't, then maybe the franchise owner or manager is embezzling the overhead fee allowed for regular replacement of the filter. Corruption is not unknown where money is involved and it's up to customers to report to the state government regulating fuel standards that there is something wrong.

Meme tier

>You have a fuel filter in your car so cloudy gas shouldn't be a problem
The gas going into my car shouldn't be dirty in the first place if the gas station's own filter system was working properly and maintenance was kept up on it.

Now, what you said could also be assumed by an unethical gas station owner. As the months pass by, the filter gets clogged and the flow rate slows down. So he justifies some cheap chinese replacement filter or the bypass valve would be opened to allow flow around the old clogged filter.

>Does Costco clean out these distributor tanks?
Since every gas station uses a type of storage tank, those no longer matter as a way of distinguishing one brand from another. What matters is finding out what makes each brand of fuel different from each other. The differences are not just additives because the base stocks for different brands are sometimes stored in different tanks at the larger terminal stations.

>What are the opinions on fuel system cleaners?
There's no guarantee it works to eliminate symptoms in your car, especially if those symptoms are caused by something these products don't fix like worn plugs. But the evidence is clear that for some people, these things do work.

>What are the opinions on fuel system cleaners?
Some people mistakenly use fuel injector cleaners instead of fuel system cleaners.

My dad brews gas for Nintendo and he said they invented new 200 octane gas but the only way to get it is flashing an ultra rare holographic Charzard wearing a powerglove card to the cashier.

I use flying j/love's cheapo gas. Am I fucking myself more than paying the extra 50-60 cents a gallon for chevron?

Go to the top tier gasoline website and you'll see a list of brands that have top tier gasoline. Top Tier is not just about having detergent in the gasoline to reduce fuel system deposits. It also specifies various other minimum standards such as the total amount of ethanol is limited to 10%. One of ethanol's uses is to raise octane, but this prevents it from being used to raise premium gas octane beyond the 10% ethanol level. Top Tier also specifies a limit for sulfur content. High sulfur gasoline does meet minimum fuel standards, but it doesn't meet top tier standards. Top Tieir has other requirements too. In general, if the price is close to a non top tier source, you should get the top tier.

toptiergas.com

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tier_Detergent_Gasoline

>paying the extra 50-60 cents a gallon for chevron
Arco / BP is often the cheapest of the Top Tier gasolines. It's way cheaper than Chevron in my area. Costco is well-known for low gas prices and its 5X was the high mark until Shell came out with V-Power which claimed to have over 5X for their "we're better than Costco" gas.

In my area, Arco stations vary a lot in price depending on location. There is one unfortunate Arco located between Costco and across the street Sam's Club in my area and it was forced to lower its prices to be only a few cents above both places!

gasprices.aaa.com/fuel-quality/

consumerreports.org/car-maintenance/study-shows-top-tier-gasoline-worth-extra-price/

Both Costco and AAA did their own independent testing of top tier fuels. The AAA report is at:

newsroom.aaa.com/2016/07/aaa-not-gasoline-created-equal/

Diesel fuel was previously not included in Top Tier standards, but with all the negative publicity LOL that diesel engines got in the past two years about EPA and MPG performance, a top tier standard has been developed for diesel fuel too. That standard is mentioned at the top tier website as well.

does nothing, theres enough detergents in pump gas as it is

I run some MMO in the gas tank with every oil change. It's probably a placebo, but I can make a 4 dollar bottle last a good amount.

>I run some MMO in the gas tank
Can you tell if it does anything after you put it in?

>theres enough detergents in pump gas as it is
Probably not for the revised direct injection engines that manufacturers will go to in order to avoid the now-known problem direct injection engines have with intake valve deposits. The revised engines will have most of the fuel direct injected but also have a little bit of fuel appear at the intake valve so that detergents can work on the carbon deposits. But since the volume of fuel is small, that means the amount of detergent applied will also be smaller. The original minimum detergent spec by the EPA was determined under the condition that all the fuel detergent appeared at the intake valves and not a small fraction.

>My dad delivers gas and says shit like this all the time
It also depends for who he delivers for. Various trucking firms have different contracts at the terminal stations. And if your father is at a small terminal, then there will be more of what he said because the amount of property available to the tank farm is small. Thus many companies have to share gas from the same tanks and then apply unique additives to the batch. That would mean the individual brands could not differentiate their fuel by drawing from different tanks whose loads were originally separated in the pipeline by those traveling pigs.

>What are the opinions on fuel system cleaners?
More relevant is knowing when to use a fuel system cleaner. I suspect lots of people simply use them unnecessarily.

>I suspect lots of people simply use them unnecessarily.
I used two before when the engine was running roughly and sputtering. I thought it was a clogged injector but it actually was a worn out spark plug.

>useless unless you use shit fuel a lot
Agreed. But gas stations vary a lot in their standards on how they take care of their gas. I remember a few newspaper articles from long ago where stations got caught watering their gas. I wish stations had some sort of logo identifying if they were corporate-owned or franchisee-owned. It's always those family-owned franchises that deliberately reduce maintenance or do other shenanigans to try to make more profit.

Just use top tier fuel and you will be fine.

toptiergas.com/licensedbrands/

Waste of money. If you're going to put shit in your gas to "clean" then use TCW-3 2-stroke oil. It burns clean and doesn't fuck up your cats because it's ashless, is full of cleaning detergents, functions as an upper cylinder lubricant, and it's like $20 for a 4L jug of supertech tcw-3 from walmart.

Generally you use a 500:1 ratio so like 2oz in a tank. Been doing this for years and my engine seems to love it, very quiet and responsive.

Nah, it doesn't really do much that I know of. I tried to use it to fix a rough idle and it didn't do shit, and neither did seafoam spray. Personally, I just believe in preventative maintenance. Spending the money on a cheap bottle of (probably) placebo is part of the car's schedule for me. I can only compare it to multivitamins. Maybe useful under certain conditions, but taking them is a waste of time unless you eat literal garbage.

My 30 year old Mercedes started randomly run like shit.
Try out one of these fuel system cleaner things out of desperation.
Car actually ran better afterwards especially right after putting this shit in.
Symptoms did return in few months through.
Buy another bottle of the same shit I previously bought.
Car has been running like it should for 7 months now.

For me the fuel system cleaner has been beneficial and probably have cleaned my fuel injectors that probably have been clogged. Still I don't think there is any point using these if you cars runs like it should.

>Techron definitely stops the corrision that makes the sending units fail 100%
>Am I fucking myself more than paying the extra 50-60 cents a gallon for chevron?

Maybe I'll switch over to Chevron then because the price difference is 5 cents per gallon due to competition. It's on a corner lot but got sandwiched by a new BP station across the street on another corner that then changed to Arco at $2.69/gallon. Then Sam's Club moved onto the other corner with its huge Sam's Gasoline station at $2.69/gallon. So the Chevron dropped its price to $2.74/gallon due to being squished. Thank you Arco and Sam's for squishing the Chevron prices down.

The nearby Shell has had the hardest time. Due to lack of business, their station closes at 9PM every day while the Arco and Chevron remain open 24/7.

I've had fantastic luck with Chevron Techron fuel cleaner.

necessary if your car/boat/plane is stopped for nearly a year and you want to get rid of deposits, not necessary in regular use.

Show me a fuel system where all the filters have a bypass. I'll wait.

>I've had fantastic luck with Chevron Techron fuel cleaner.
Since Chevron adds Techron to the gasoline sold at their gas stations, how much stronger is the concentration of Techron in your gas tank if you add a bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner? Or is it only slightly stronger?

GDIs will start throwing misfire codes once buildup gets to a certain point. I put two cans of CRC in my car and it helped a lot. Good stuff.

>post this same shit every thread
u really bit down on that advertisement didnt you m8.

youtube.com/watch?v=h8i9qftqKNY

in your car they wouldnt have a bypass as the negative impact of dirty fuel getting into the engine is faaaaaar greater than a clogged filter and a choked off engine.

now, as for a filter at the pump, I would assume that it would have a bypass built in just because they can rely on fuel filters in cars to pick up the slack.

>Since Chevron adds Techron to the gasoline sold at their gas stations, how much stronger is the concentration of Techron in your gas tank if you add a bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner? Or is it only slightly stronger?

the concentration in chevron gas is only so much that it prevents buildups from happening but not enough to fix buildups that are there.

are you fucking stupid? do you know what PEA is?

yep, its the same shit thats in most fuel cleaners.

wait, read that guy you replied to wrong. I thought you were insinuating that Techron didn't have chemicals to break down deposits. your right, he is retarded

>Show me a fuel system where all the filters have a bypass
That poster in was not talking about the car's fuel system. That post's context was about the gas station's fuel filter.

>u really bit down on that advertisement

When people first posted about Top Tier gas, some people posted here about shilling gas for the oil companies. Top Tier wasn't invented by the oil companies, but by the car manufacturers because the oil companies were putting out gas at the minimum quality level which was too low.
There were people who even claimed Top Tier

>its the same shit thats in most fuel cleaners.
SeaFoam doesn't have PEA. It's still the same old formula from many decades ago.

>I put two cans of CRC in my car and it helped a lot. Good stuff.

The CRC formula is said to keep one removing carbon for up to several days after application. How did you decide to apply your two cans? Did you use one can at first to soften up the carbon deposits and then drove for a week or two before applying the 2nd can to finish removing the softened deposits?

>The nearby Shell has had the hardest time. Due to lack of business, their station closes at 9PM every day while the Arco and Chevron remain open 24/7.

Shell is consistently the highest priced branded gas in my area. It's no wonder it lacks customers especially if other lower-priced Top Tier brands are nearby.

>That's at franchised stations whose franchise operators skimped

>It's always those family-owned franchises that deliberately reduce maintenance or do other shenanigans to try to make more profit.

Never buy gas from a station that has Indians or Pakis running it, they're the cheapest shitstains on earth.

ex-GF stopped at a Indian owned BP, put a half -tank of midgrade gas in her car, got about a mile before her car died just ahead of a freeway ramp.
Called AAA, got it towed to her dads, me and her dad started checking it over, it didn't make sense why is wasn't turning over, check the fuel filter and rail...

Fucking WATER sprays out the schrader valve on the fuel rail

Buy a siphon kit for her dodge, drain about 7 gallons of water that only vaguely smelled of gas.
A match wouldn't even light it up.

Refill her tank with 96 Premium and 2 bottles of water separator, run the fuel pump to purge the system... and it started right up.

Her dad went to that station to complain on their shittery, Indians pulled the "no speaky english" game and called the police.
Police I guess were total Bros, redpilled about that station and the Poos that ran it.

About 6 months later I heard that BP corporate sent an inspector in and shut them down, the Poos lost their franchise, tried to run it as an "Independent" for about a year... it's been a boarded up eye sore in town now for like a year.

Wow. That is fucked. I buy my fuel from a non asshole Indian.
Cheap and it’s perfectly fine

As someone who works in a parts store, they're all the fucking same. Useless. 90% of the time it just masks a more serious issue like a clogged injector/carburetor jet.

The only ones I can vouch for is seafoam spray, it cleaned carbon deposits out of my motorcycle, also stp engine oil repair (something like that) stopped or maybe slowed a small leak from the valve cover. But I still had to clean and rebuild the carbs and will eventually need to drop the engine to do the valve covers (yes yamaha is pants on head retarded)

>Fucking WATER sprays out the schrader valve on the fuel rail
The corrupt franchise owner didn't understand how to add water properly so that the 10% ethanol content would absorb it. And so they probably just poured in the amount of water directly into the tank. That was their mistake.

>how much stronger is the concentration of Techron in your gas tank if you add a bottle of Techron fuel system cleaner?
The material sheet says no more than 20 to 30% of the techron bottle is PEA and the actual exact percentage is trade secret. So assume 25% of the 12oz bottle is PEA which means you have 3 ounces of PEA. You know the capacity of your gas tank, so that means 3 ounces vs your gas tank.

The EPA minimum detergent requirement is XX so you have to look that up. Now, that EPA detergent doesn't have to be PEA which is the most expensive. But we're not looking at efficacy or price but just fluid volume for now. That EPA amount then gives you an idea how much detergent is in each gallon of gas. You can then compare that to your 3ozVersusTank value.

I heard that if you haven't used a fuel system cleaner in a long time, it might be best that you don't.
The theory was it will loosen up too much stuff and clog your injectors.
Is this true?

Doubtful, every car has a prefilter before the pump and a main filter before the injectors. Any containment of meaningful size should be filtered out.

Between 20 - 30 microns, any smaller is negligible.

>Shell has had the hardest time
There are few Shell stations here and they always cost big. If Arco has regular 87 octane gas at $2.55, then Shell will be $2.99 or more. It makes me wonder if they have old gas too if not enough people buy it.

>they always cost big
Maybe? Shell regular 87 = $3.29 ; Arco regular 87 = $2.69

Have a GDI engine that started acting up at about 90k miles. Rough Idle, throttle lag and started throwing misfire codes. Took the intake off to find the throttle body and inside the intake manifold covered in oil residue. I knew the valves had to be encrusted with buildup. Sprayed a can of CRC through and it helped a lot. I still noticed a rough idle though and about a month later I spray another can it and now the engine runs smooth, like fucking creme. Switched to a different oil and checked the throttle body at 105k miles and it was clean. Bought a can of Seafoam spray because it was 50% off at a local store. Probably will use it when Springtime comes, but I dont think I need it.

Highly recommend CRC, especially if you have a GDI engine.

>most

...

It's the Shell V-Power premium that has the extra amount of detergent above their other top tier gas. But the price is too high. It's cheaper to just buy a bottle of Techroline and add it to some other cheaper top tier gas like Costco which already has 5X detergent.

>Arco / BP is often the cheapest of the Top Tier gasolines.
Is there a formula for the major components of gasoline by brand?