Dieselgate

Did they really think no one would find out? What exactly was going on through their heads at the time when the decision was made? Besides total desperation because everyone made better engines than them?

You can get these for supper low prices and full warranties for 100k miles. The cars are really nice and feel solid, I still bought something else though.

>I still bought something else though.

good man. modern volks/audis are shodily built and not worth the money

Technically they passed the test they were supposed to.

Its kind of like if your teacher wanted you to make a compass that pointed north when he sat at his desk but your compass didnt relaly point north. but you know that when the teacher graded your compass he would be sitting it his desk so you hide a magnet in the case and it points north but only when he grades it at his desk so it only works in certain conditions but technically it does point north in those specific conditions.

Its not like they didn't meet the standards they just played games with how those standards were measured.

What was going through their heads was simple: Do we give American buyers what they want (extra long driving range) or give the American bureaucrats what they want? (low emissions)

Someone on the Volkswagen BoD asked "Why not both?" and thats when the directed their engineering department (the fabled "smoking gun" memo) to make that happen.

You almost had it. What everyone says is a "cheat device" is probably just a clever bit of ECU coding that says if something is plugged in, run in eco-friendly mode.

The only reason they got caught was someone was taking readings right off the tailpipe while doing real-world driving.

>i-i-it was for consumers goy
>we totally did it for you not because we cant engineer engines

also euro ones were affected too :)

Vw did nothing wrong

Unironically this. By "cheating" they were able to sneak high MPG diesels to Americans who wanted them. Mine gets way better milage than even the official ratings. I average close to 50mpg. The EPA's diesel regulations are bullshit in the U.S. My neighbor can daily drive a giant coal-roaling Cummins Ram 3500 dually that he never uses to tow anything and that's just fine but a diesel passenger car that emits 1/50th of the particulates/NOx that a school bus does is a danger to public health? Yeah, ok, EPA. Go clean up your superfund sites.

>american defending VAG

wow this is like soyception.

>not defending an American's right to drive whatever car he damn well wants to drive and forcing him to buy some shitty gasoline car that doesn't even have torque or a beautiful diesel purr.

drive whatever you want soyboi but VAG is shit and their inability to engineer an engine on par with their competitors is the least of their problems with the new gen TSI/TSFI engines and DSG gearboxes

Everyones doing it faggot. They just got caught.

anyway I'm glad you like your VW but I dont think it fair for a company to get an advantage by circumventing the law even if said law might not be perfect. And just because running coal isnt cracked down on doesnt mean companies should be exempt from regulations
different situation. VW cheated on emission testing, other vehicles passed emission testing without cheating but were found to actually pollute more during actual driving. Mitsu and bmw being closest to truth

How can you tell if a car manufacturer has integrity?
They've gone out of business.

What are you exactly going on about? This isn't about 'hurr vag too retarded to engineere gewd kar XDDDDDDD". This is about asinine emissions regulations. Volkswagen wanted to produce a long range diesel vehicle that didn't need a urea based fluid that drivers had to fuck with. They could've done that like the other sedans/coupes on the market, but they chose not to. The only diesel vehicles that can meet emissions in the U.S. without a urea fluid injector are trucks and that's only because those are regulated entirely differently.

Mercedes, Renault, Opel and these are just the names I recall from memory...

Many others run similar schemes.

Difference was someone snitched about VW an d they got caught.

>Did they really think no one would find out?
Yes, just like everyone else.
>What exactly was going on through their heads at the time when the decision was made?
Everyone does it, most other manufacturers do it even worse, so why don´t do it?
>Besides total desperation because everyone made better engines than them?
Well, the TDi series Diesel engine are actually verry efficient and, ironicly, have better real live emissions than most other diesels or direct injection gas engines.
Also they make a lot of power for their sieze and are relieable.

The thing is that all manufacturers cheat on emissions and fuel efficiency sice at least the early 90s.
If you look for the actual MPG and emission figgures while normal driving, you will see that no ICE powered car at all meets the standards.

who cares

>The only reason they got caught was someone was taking readings right off the tailpipe while doing real-world driving.
imagine the sheer number of cars that would be fucked if they did this with all makes and models

Exactly what was going through the heads of ford and gm when they did the same.

How are those American car sales doing outside America?
Oh that's right, there aren't any because yank cars a fucking shit and everyone knows it.

Yes they did, they dented sales of domestics. In every real world test where the so called defeat device isn't functioning the VW cars produce less CO2 and NOX than there domestic equivalents. The fact that cars with double the emissions of VAG vehicles in the same class didn't attract the attention of the regulators in the same way (the Focus next to the Golf) shows VW did one thing wrong and that was being foreign and a pawn in a much larger EU US trade war.

cost savings and customer expectations
they already had a way to deal with nox emmisions
it involved spaying urea into a hot catalytic converter

but to keep the catalytic converter hot uses more fuel and reduces power
custormer does not want less power and more fuel use ontop of haveing to top up on piss water

more like they got sick of hoop jumping
the stringent nature of the tests bring about perverse incentives

They did just that. Guess who pollutes the least.

How do Ford manage to pollut more than Land Rover given the make up of the Ford Europe line up?

Most American cars have engines you’re not allowed to have. Those that you’re allowed to have are just rebadged GMs to make you feel like you’re buying European.

>marginally more
At least pick a better example to contrast with Ford.

Looking at I think might have a point. Where are the fines for FCA & GM?

Should I buy a mid 00's 5-speed TDi Beetle with 200k on it?

Well VW cover the same markets as Ford and produce a third of the pollution. Land Rovers are much bigger than the Fords that sell in the EU failing to beat them is a major problem for Ford.

No they are very impractical cars, no boot space and a cramped back seat.

That's what I've been wondering. I have an Opel Zafira from 2015, and right after the dieselgate scandal popped up, my Zafira got recalled for a "software update".
Mechanic refused to answer when I asked him about the dieselgate thing.

I don't see anyone fining GM for that.

Come to Europe and try to breath city air during rush hour, it's not some bureaucratic nonsense when everything stinks, your eyes start to sting and you're watching sunset through diesel exhaust haze. It's not a problem in US when two out of hundred cars in that stop and go traffic are diesel but imagine when they're all diesel.

Worse thing is, diesel particulates get deep in your lungs and cause actual serious medical problems, in direct contrast to co2

They "technically" passed the emissions tests, which was what was officially required. As dishonest as it was IMO they shouldn't have been punished; it was the lax testing procedure which were at fault.

tldr; Don't hate the player hate the game.

I'm calling BS on this post.

Lots of other automakers diesels met the requirements, but they all either made much less power or requried much more expensive emissions gear. Nobody understood at the time how VAG was beating the compititon in diesel tech, and the reality was they weren't, they were just cheating.

EnviroFag here, and I actually agree with this. We run a construction site where we have to watch our NOx emissions on a daily basis, which limits production and extends the project. However we are building right next to the highway...

Yes try to breath my €3 non-DPF particulate and you'll get stingy eyes and a bit of running nose.
Then try the same with modern diesels particulate, good luck not developing cancer.
""""""""Environmental regulations"""""""" do way more harm than good.

Meanwhile at Hyundai...5 to 7 years unlimited warranty for diesel, gasoline, hybrid, plugin hybrid, Electric, fucking fuel cell

if they actually approve any warranty claims

I think you missed the point. America has 5 times as many diesel trucks rolling around being used as daily drivers as small diesel passenger vehicles.

>VW ruins internal combustion for everybody forever
faggots

>Lots of other automakers diesels met the requirements,
Nope, see

Yep just look at these squiggly lines that aren't specified what they means but still prove my point

So stupid he cant read a simple labeled bar graph.

>euro 6 standards
hmm gee, I wonder why they wernt fined in the US