*breaths in*

look at the top of his head

They have done literally nothing of note ever and mass producing cars starting from scratch is actually really hard.

This could actually happen, Tesla has been riding the marketing train for a long ass time now, and if Porsche's electric sedan turns out to actually be good, and it probably will, because despite the marketing wank both Toyota and Porsche have been in this field way longer and put out way more in terms of electric cars than Tesla has (LMP1, and Porsche's recent entry into Formula E) and have an unimaginable amount of money and manufacturing capability to back up whatever they decide to put out. GM's doing pretty well, but like Toyota they can't really cut into the market because Tesla is living off of badge whoring. Unfortunately for Tesla, nobody can out badge whore Porsche.

You really think Porsche is going to sell as many Mission Es as Tesla has already sold Model S/3/Xs?

Easily, Panamera Hybrid is doing great

Yeah dude, he just said they have way more experience, since they made a Formula E car. Tesla has only sold a tad over 300k electric cars. Obviously making a single race car shows more experience building electric street cars than building 300k electric street cars.

This, they sold almost 3000 Panamera Hybrids worldwide this year, to Teslas pitiful 50,000 Model S.

>producing cars starting from scratch is actually really hard.
oh a bloo bloo

their main platform is like 5 years old and still has tonnes of issues

>"Move over soy-boys a real car manufacturer is here"

>estrogen induced snarkiness typical for Tesla shills
They've just started getting into the game. Euro plugin hybrids and EV's are going to push Tesla out of business.

can't wait to nab a used S in a couple years. The free unlimited supercharging transfers to new owners; it would be nice to have

No, but I'm sure they'll sell enough, and it's pretty clearly a direct shot at Tesla. Electric cars are going to become big, Tesla has a lead in the market right now but they're barely even holding on as a company, Porsche has been racing hybrids for a while, has the 918, and as I mentioned, is entering Formula E. It's not going to stop at the Mission E, and I don't think Tesla is going to be able to ride off marketing when Porsche starts putting out what will most likely be superiour products. There's also the fact that we will probably see this trickle down to some VW econobox in the future, which, from how Tesla is doing currently, could undercut the Model 3.

A big problem that Tesla has is that a large portion of their supporters can't actually afford any of their cars, and those that can aren't actually getting them. Even if they do get their shit together Porsche is going to be able to produce and equivalent product for much less cost to them, because of all of the infrastructure they already have in place. Where the difference lies is that Tesla has to live off their electric car sales, where Porsche can easily afford to do it as a side project.

I was more referring to the 918 and 919, Formula E just proves that they want to prototype some all electric drivetrains (which are way simpler and easier to make than hybrids) Call me when Tesla wins Le Mans

This isn't something that's going to happen tomorrow, but it's going to happen eventually and Tesla really doesn't look ready.

>selling more Model S in one quarter than all Panameras (gas and hybrid) Porsche sells in a year
>doesn't advertise
>been manufacturing cars for 5 years
Yeah Porsche is really sticking it to them by getting dominated in their own market, how will Tesla come back now that Porsche has a render of a sedan and an electric gokart?

>not realizing Tesla bit off more than it can chew and its hype is fabricated by tech media
>believes the Model 3 will be a success and not a fiasco

Sink or swim tesla has taken what any nerd could do 15yrs ago to a civic and massed produced it. The future has been changed. The ice has meet its match and the fight between the unstoppable force and the immovable object has begun.
Im a big snowmobile guy and have a yamaha sidewinder turbo 4stroke im still beat on mpg by bombardier 2strokes. I carry this experience to cars and hope the ice holds market share and develops the tech to do the same. But I'm on the wrong side of that argument by buying the 4stroke meme.

mazda seems to be coming up with some ideas for the ice market, its a shame its a smaller company like them trying to innovate in that space, instead of something like a GM or Toyota who have way more capital and manpower to experiment.

...

Toyota owns 20% of Mazda

>1/5th the market cap of bitcoin

O I am laffin

and aliexpress owns 5% of the company behind PUBG. Ownership stats like that mean nothing nowadays.

another thing, despite how bad you can call Tesla's engineering, their in-house PM and AC induction motors are fucking amazing.

If porch could beat Tesla's 0-60, I would be extremely surprised. Assuming they can't, if perch can cool their stators and battery cells better than Tesla then that could be a big selling point too (no more slug mode after 2 laps around the nuburgerking etc). Still, it looks bad to have a worse 0-60, despite how much Veeky Forums says it's a useless metric

Would love to see hydrogen out sell electric

Have you not realized yet he introduces models to create hype that results in more retards giving him cash to run his pyramid scheme?

Mini disks were pretty good desu. Thing is mp3s were hiding around the corner and ruined everything.

Hydrogen will btfo everyone

>"pyramid scheme"
>sells 100,000 cars a year
>pumps billions into R&D, expansion, and building a hueg factory in the middle of the desert
>has said from the get-go that Tesla's purpose is to accelerate the transition to clean energy transportation i.e. batteries, solar, and EVs
>is currently working alongside large trucking firms

if it's a pyramid scheme he's doing an absolute horrible job at it.

I8 is really popular for bmw and has F1 tech backing it.

In fact the Germans could end Tesla if they can perform like an M3 or 911 at a track. Otherwise its just a show off tool for soyboys

fucking this Hydrogen>>>>electric

This shows how dumb you are. BMW and Porsche and GM have infrastructure and operations protocol that organized manufacturing to make things work right. That's why the GM electric is considered the best.

BMW literally sent guys to F1 to build and learn hybrid and electric motors. Then they took that same team and had them build two cars and the i8 is one of BMWs best selling cars ever according to them. Even at $140k.

Tesla has no manufacturing experience. Builds barely any cars .

>In fact the Germans could end Tesla if they can perform like an M3 or 911 at a track
Yep, that's what luxury sedan buyers truly care about

>the i8 is one of BMWs best selling cars ever according to them
They sell less than 5000 i8s a year
>Builds barely any cars
Tesla builds over 100k cars a year

Do little puffs of smoke come out your ears when you rub your two brain cells together in an attempt to form a thought?

>Hasn't made a profit ever
>Tons of broken promises
>Used taxpayer money to get Tesla off the ground
>Every single car uses taxpayer money to pay for part of it
>GM sells more EV than Tesla and GM EV are more affordable to the people

>Tesla builds over 100k cars a year
You're lying because the EV tax credit expires when a brand makes 200k electric cars.

Those billions came from the government.

the model 3 production line is the most automated production line in history. now if they could just get the damn robots to work properly.

the gigafactory can't find enough skilled people work in it.

700 factory staff were fired right before model 3 production.

the fremont factory is now in an area where houses sell for a million on average. which can't make it easy to find people to move to it at car factory wages.

one break. the federal tax credit survived the stupid republican tax changes. though it will run out by Q1 2019.

*cough*

>lie
>sure, lol
>and it was payed back in advance you retard
>lie
>lie

congrats you got 1/5. Please play again.

o i am laffin

Sources have been saying the 3's are practically hand built right now.

>Hasn't made a profit
>Lie
>Failed promises are a lie
Show us the earnings report then Musk. Then why aren't there 5,000 model 3's a week yet? Nevermind the 10,000 a week previously promised

nope. They are "hand built" the same way that every other car is partially "hand built". Some parts of the assembly use *gasp* humans. other parts use robots.

That's per year, and Tesla sells half it's vehicles outside of the US. Teslas production numbers are not a secret, they are published every quarter, you can read them after googling for 1 second instead of making yourself look like a retard, just a tip.

lol inb4 they move the entire factory project overseas

>relying on 201x western workers
HAHAHAHHA
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A
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A

3rd quarter 2016 (although that was partially a big ZEV credit sale). Not that it matters, there is zero reason for Tesla to be making a profit right now

also
>actually getting in a fit when ol' musky is overly optimistic, as he always is

hohohohohoho

Tesla shills are truly retarded

I don't think you can read.

The dude you replied to is right.

>Tesla victims are still buying Musk's dog-and-pony show

lel

There's a reason why Musk pitched the Tesla IPO to Silicon Valley types. He would've been laughed out of any meeting with actual industrial investors who know how things are actually made.

>b-but there's a vaporware pickup around the corner!
>they'll start making that right after the vaporware CUV
>and the vaporware roadster
>any day now!
>once they actually make some Model 3s, which they don't seem to be able to do
>muh SpaceX!

>Stussy
Kind of took me by surprise it was a thing again.

don't forget!
>muh vaporware model S
>muh vaporware model X

...do you people have nonexistent memories? remember TTAC's Tesla "death watch"? Tesla has been on the brink of falling apart for a decade now, according to you hooligans.

Not really on-topic but I think Elon Musk is the kid from kinder chocolate packaging. Discuss.

Now they're almost out of new EV credits, their competitors are building their own EVs, and they're committed to building a mainstream car that they absolutely cannot do, and papering it over by scamming their remaining victims out of more "deposits"

There's a reason why Tesla stock is in freefall. Everyone is waking up to Musk's scam

>Model X

Yeah, that one's been a real victory lap hasn't it

tesla btfo by Veeky Forums

it actually has.
>In Q4, Tesla delivered 29,870 vehicles, of which 15,200 were Model S, 13,120 were Model X

they're basically selling the same number of X's as S's. It's been a great success.

also,
>thinking that stocks go up and down due to overall "feeling" about how "scammy" the company is
HOHOHOHOAAOAOAOOHO
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perhaps.

Think it's time to admit that GM is the EV king. They brought the affordable and practical electric car to the middle class.

You can also get a used e-golf, opel ampera-e or a renaul zoe for little money

>There's a reason why Tesla stock is in freefall.
>down 1% after a bad announcement
>still up for the week
IT'S ALL OVER AHHHHH

>GM reported another Bolt EV sales fiasco, with only 3,227 units sold for the whole quarter. That's one-fith compared to the Tesla Model S.

yep, looks like GM really hit it out of the park this time. Their EV, on a fantastic, amazing, incredible, perfect production line is just barely edging over the horrible, floundering, dumpster-fire model 3. what a shame. Elon should kys himself, god bless General Motors

LEAF 2.0 is going to have 200 mile range as an option soon and will be priced under the Bolt. it will also have autonomy features like the Telsa. plus it has more brand recognition among EV buyers.

how is the Zoe? I've heard good things and bad things, like how you lease the battery.

Over here in burgerland the used EV of choice is a leaf. There are like four used leafs near me for under 8 thousand burgerbucks. Some for 6k.

Used to be $360

>more brand recognition
come now, every single leaf and volt owner I know would love to have a Tesla. It's just the cheaper option to buy a leaf

yes, but against the Bolt. The LEAF is just better known. the LEAF 2.0 looks better than the Bolt imo. though the Bolt does have more interior room.

the new leaf has 2/3 of the Bolt's range for 3/4 of the price, or thereabouts. For people that really never need more than 150mi, the new leaf is a pretty good deal. For the rest of the population, I think the 2/3 for 3/4 isn't good enough.

You retarded gascucks should know that the Mirai is also an electric car, only difference that is that it uses Hydrogen fuel cells instead of batteries.

>Model X declared the Least Reliable Car Ever Made

>5 day

lel

also

>what are stock buybacks from victims ponying up """""deposits""""" on the roadster

hydrogen is the meme to out-meme all other memes.

it's super hard to store, not very dense, a good explosive, and tank repressurization between fill-ups is 15 min. Not to mention the horrible energy losses...

electrek.co/2017/10/26/toyota-elon-musk-fuel-cell-hydrogen/
youtube.com/watch?v=YNV8qi_rJBg

Preordered a Model 3
Would buy a Leaf but hate the fact that there is no batery cooling and heating.
I would loose like 20% capacity in the first 3 years.
For what you get it should be a 24.000$ car

there is no hydrogen infrastructure.

there are only about 2 dozen in the US available to the public. most are in california around the bay area and LA. then a couple in south carolina and a couple around long island.

oh, *that* article. yeah, it's the "least reliable" because it has issues with trim alignment, and some door issues. Meanwhile the rest of the cars on that shitty list have issues with the DRIVETRAIN AND ENGINE, and other IMPORTANT PARTS. you know.

they used a retarded metric to determine overall reliability. You should feel bad for believing it

i've had 2 LEAF 1.0 on lease and my mother has leaf 1.0 now.

the 2011 leaf lost 5 percent battery over 2 years. though that battery pack was known to not like being hot.

my 2015 hasn't lost a single mile of range yet and it is almost 3 years.

Hydrogen is a battery. It's just a really, really, really shitty one

You have to spend energy to make hydrogen. Actually, more than you get out, at last check 1.5kw of electricity to produce 1kw of hydrogen. That hydrogen must then be compressed, taking more energy. It must then be pumped or transported, taking more energy, through pipelines or trucks that must be built and operated with yet more energy to filling stations that have to be built with yet MORE energy and pumped into THERE with, you guessed it, MORE energy. And then it can finally be pumped into a car and lossily run through a fuel cell to produce electricity.

Just building the infrastructure for consumer hydrogen car use would require a massive amount of steel refined, melted, pressed into sheets, hot-rolled into high-pressure pipe and welded together (after being carried by truck all over the country to be installed). That's a whole LOT of electricity.

Or, you could just send the electricity over the wires we've already built to charge electric cars.

Used to be $17

>5 day
Show any time frame that depicts a "freefall"

>what are stock buybacks from victims ponying up """""deposits""""" on the roadster
Since you are the expert you'll have to explain to use laymen what you think the answer to your retarded jeopardy question is, because nobody else is going to be able to make sense of it.

when did your preorder/where do you live? With the new production numbers, the ability to narrow down your delivery date has gotten much better. Unless you are waiting for dual motor / non PUP / non LR battery. Then it will still be quite a long time

>yeah, it's the "least reliable" because it has issues with trim alignment, and some door issues.

>high-end CUV from a given manufacturer is plagued with fit/finish and build quality issues

I just can't wait to see what their cheap mass-produced car is built like.

>jk it's not being built at all

When will we get mid-priced EV performance cars? What's stopping an e-Golf GTI or a Zoe Trophy existing?

We all know that, only reason Mirai exists because of Japanese politics.

Cancel the pre-order and buy a Bolt, GM is stuck with loads of them and you can negotiate the price quite low.

And check for group buys for it as well for better prices

>goalpost shifting
bye, I'm not going to reply to you any more ;^)

how many miles on the '15? I know a guy with a '14. It's lost just one bar, but he's driven it a huge amount. In Colorado winters, too.

>Show any time frame that depicts a "freefall"
>down nearly 20% in 3 months
>10% in the last couple days
>has lost about 15 billion in value over that period

That is Snapchat-level loss of value

Just wait for the end of the week

>butthurt over a vaporware car that is guaranteed to be a pile of shit when however many drip out before the company is bankrupt

Cap this post bro :^)

executives. Companies are too squeamish to get into new markets nowadays, unless it's going to be 100% successful. See: SUVs.

>if I make up numbers I can be right!
It's UP over the last couple days, as shown in the picture in this thread that you replied to. It's down 10% over a 3 month period. I don't understand what you are trying to do, do you think people are going to take your post at face value instead of spending a few seconds to look it up?

25k on the 15 leaf. averaging 10k a year. I put 30k about on the 11 leaf.

i have DC fast charged dozens of times a year on the 15. a couple times i did it twice in a day, and the car bitched about hot battery.

the 11 i charged less, just because there were not as many chargers at the time. i once drove it down to empty and the turtle light came on. which had me limping home at 35 mph that last few miles.

Just wait bro :^)

There's a reason they released their very latest "oh shit we're going to miss our third pushed-back milestone" at night, when the markets closed. It's going to be a massacre come Thursday and Friday.

just out of curiosity, how much do you think Nissan would give you if you traded the '15 in for a new '18 leaf 2.0?

diversity hires

You didn't address my post. Were you lying about the numbers hoping nobody would look you up, or are you just mentally deficient? Why would anyone "just wait" on your prediction when every post from you in this thread makes you look like a complete moron?

they don't want the 1.0 LEAFs back. they are offering really low prices to people to buy their lease.

I have a 3 reservation and it was originally jan-march delivery. then it was march-april. now, i don't know. my LEAF lease is going to be out before the 3 arrives. by months now by the look of it. I would buy my current LEAF if they offered a sub 10k price. then I could sell it later when I get the tesla finally, and probably break even on the LEAF. i might just rent a car if i can find a deal on a long term rental.

it probably won't happen, but I could see used EV prices momentarily go up in the future, if replacement battery packs substantially drop in price.

Like, the value of a used leaf would increase, since for cheap one could outfit it with 300+miles. Or something like that
Just a thought.

>can't math
>360-310 is not a slightly less than 20% drop
>340-310 is not 10%

I guess this trouble with numbers is why you believe a company that can't make 25,000 good expensive cars a year will somehow be able to produce 150,000 good cheap cars a year :^)

A bunch of Silicon Valley soyim with no experience in mass producing anything thought that they had a better idea of how to make cars than Toyota, GM, VW, etc. I think that Musk said something along the lines that those companies had no clue how to manufacture shit. So they bought NUMMI for a song when GM went bankrupt, and set about making cars as if they're iPhone apps. This disaster is the result.

You're really trying it AGAIN?
3 month - 355 to 317 - 10.7% drop
3 day - 310 to 317 - 2% increase

Let's recap, you repeatedly just make up numbers, get exposed, now you are trying to make up more numbers to save face? You can't backpedal out of it. I'll ask again, were you lying about the numbers hoping nobody would look you up, or are you just mentally deficient?

which i think is hilarious when you see Faraday and the other startups trying to be Tesla.

new mass market car companies just don't happen anymore. unless you get substantial government help.

you might see someone just buy a bunch of parts built in china. final assemble in america.

>317
>what is after hours trading

317 is where it closed. It'll open at 310. That's where it is right now. There's gonna be a bloodbath over the next couple days, stretching out into weeks.

>3% increase

oh god lol, you are a perfect customer for the Musk Show. Buy some stock, if you can figure out how to open an Ameritrade account.

It opened at 325 today, it's 310 now. The massacre is beginning.

Tesla can't even be Tesla. It is kept alive 100% by Elon Musk's amazing ability to con idiots, hipsters, and clueless tech types.

If Chrysler made a car as crappy as the Model X, or as badly-made as the Model S at its price point, it would get shit on nonstop. But purely because of Musk's MUH FUTURE TECHNOLOGY CHANGING THE PARADIGM spin, these rattletraps get a pass.

For now.

i do hope they start manufacturing the AWD version before years end.

oh nononono