Why are we forced to drive computers?

I know. But my dream is for car companies to make completely mechanical carbureted cars that you can work on yourself again, with analog everything and not a single display inside.

Luxury now means adding more screens. I just want an interior made of thick leather and metal, no gadgets.

>solid circuits
>solid
>circuits

You are the biggest singularity of ignorance since the US Congress.

I don't know about you, but the rest of western civilization has the right to buy a carbed vehichle if they wish to do so

Look how bait thirsty these fags are kek. Every resonable reply was ignored except for the one that they could bait

Then why the FUCK do you need SOMEONE ELSE to do it for you? I work on late model shit just fine as do millions.

If you refuse to learn it's not the car's fault, so learn. I'm into vintage motorcycles (which weren't vintage when I got into them) and that community uses modern tech to good effect because so many of them are techies. One gent made his own EFI system for his 1974 Norton Commando including programming it. He also CNC (eee! cumpyooters!) machines primary and secondary belt drives. He manages by not being a pussy.

You live in an opulent world of tasty choices. What one gearhead can do another can do so fucking do it faggot.

I can now go buy a tag heuer mechanical watch as well as a tag heuer smart watch. But with mechanical cars, you dont have a choice, you have to buy rusty old stuff with poor safety.

Boomer post of the year
>Ahh computers are scary! I could never learn to work with one

I would love to take on projects, but memes aside, I just don’t have the time, nor the space (I live in a shoebox europoor city) nor the resources. Plus even if you were to restore whatever project to factory specs, you would still be essentially driving a deathtrap around modern vehicles.

I’m 47 lol. But on a serious note, if you like analog gauges and controls doesn’t mean you can’t work with technology, I mean here I am talking in a chatroom

lol I just swapped out my 4 barrel Rochester carb for a vintage TBI system

Why can't you work with an ecu?

Holy fucking shit.
When will you learn that Boomers are in their 70's to 80's by now? You act like they're still relevant 40 to 50 year olds.

There isn't any catchy term for conservative anti counterculture faggots born circa 1970, so I just call them what they're pretending to be

Are we seriously going to have a hipster uprising for ye olde mechanical automobiles?

What the fuck is this luddite shit.

I can see manual cars quickly becoming the hipster enthusiast thing in 5 years

Tbh the only compu shit I'll have on my rota hatch is a thermofan switch and the circuitry for the exhaust controller.

It sounds like you've just come to the conclusion that new cars>old cars

So basically, you advocate for working on old cars, while not owning one, nor working on one. Why are carburetors something people aspire to have? Small engines, boomer edition rarely driven muscle cars - those are the only uses anymore for carbs.

Do you actually know the basics of doing a cleaning/tear down on a carb? Or is this another Veeky Forums-ism of "carbs are great" while having zero experience.

Install Gentoo

I stuck a 327 with a rock crusher in a s10 pickup, does that count?

Just learn computers

Why would you do that?

>chatroom
lol ur a dinosaur

>Why are we forced to drive computers?
You are not forced to drive anything.
Electronic fuel injection and electronic ignition are just much better than carbs and contact ignition.

The only thing I don`t like is that all these computers tend to be networked to wiresless comunication systems and often have authority over the accellerator, brakes and power steering via CANbus.
So if someone is able to get into the CAN bus via the internet conected infotainment system, they may have the ability to get to the ECU and effectively controll the car.

>inb4 tinfoil
>inb4 my car is safe
>inb4 can not happen
It already happened:
youtu.be/MK0SrxBC1xs

>inb4 tinfoil
No mate, I'm with you. It's pretty retarded at the moment to claim it's an issue, but with the way things are going - that is, almost all cars these days are one big mess of fly by wire and your fucking stereo is part of the ECU - security through obscurity is Apple-tier levels on security.

Why should your injectors share networking with your GPS? Why should a thermostat be part of the ABS?
At the very least they should be completely separated, but with how cheap electronics are it's really no surprise. I wont claim to know how electronic steering works, but one would imagine anything THAT critical should at the very least be mechanically connected at all times, despite 1/2/3/10 redundant failsafes.

Hey guys I are smart

>cars that you can work on yourself
I like what you are saying,but it is nice to have a car that you never have to work on.
t.a guy that had to diagnose and repair a car in winter. (The first step is using a push broom to remove snow from underneath)
Kinda like how home furnaces don't have to be worked on, instead of failing every winter,the kinda act up every few years.

>It's pretty retarded at the moment to claim it's an issue
Well, since most of Veeky Forums drives old shitboxes like a NA/NB Miata or a 3K$ civic, we are indeed not affected by that.
>anything THAT critical should at the very least be mechanically connected at all times
Your steering IS mechanicly conected all the time, but the electric motor in your electric power steering system is stronger than the driver in most vehicles.
Just turn your steering wheel with the engine off and you see what I am talking about...

What I would like to see is the following:
>standalone ECU
>standalone ESP/ABS/ASR system with kill switch
>mechanical throttle
>mechanical handbrake
>hydraulic or standalone electric power steering
>head unit only conected to speakers

>What is fuel injection?

A mechanical or electronic way to deliver fuel into a internal cobustion engine in realation to the mass airflow by means of a injector often located in the intake runner.

you can work on efi cars yourself. not every modern car is a tesla, modern efi module is reliable enough to be reduced to "module" in car logic, simple part like any other piece of a car.

i share your love for carbs and i absolutely understand fawning over purely mechanical solutions to problems (computers are such a brute-force solution), but it just won't work for today standards. ignore performance, it just wouldn't pass emissions and other modern eco stuff.

And efi that's not linked to thousands of other small computer in car is totally fine. Though i'd love to see more "open-source" stuff, clear documentations, instructions to flash your efi maps delivered by car manufacturer, stuff like that. Making car with car modifications in mind. For example, I think gt86 had some kind of clear instructions for flashing, i saw couple of threads on forums about people who fucked up flashes. I'm not digging it deeper because i don't have gt86, but it's nice to assume that at least one car is amateur tuning friendly.

I own a carbed old car. It is worse in every conceivable way than efi other than the cost of parts should anything break.

so virtually any car built before 1990?

Literally this. The end of carburetors was the best thing to happen to cars in a long time.

Because reliability, efficiency and economy .

It's cheaper to make a reliable computer that can run things more efficiently.

>This much old man syndrome
Man, I like to experience the feels/smells/fidgeting you sometimes have to do with carbs, distributors and other mechanical or simple electric systems, but they're more prone to issues than a modern, well-made EFI+ignition system, and they of course need to be periodically adjusted and verified

An electronic system can (and OEM systems do) perform a self-check, pin-point the (at least likely) problem area/sensor/condition (say, too lean mixture at high RPMs and high throttle opening) and inform you of such a thing before you damage your car, or before it's performance is severely degraded, as well as changing parameters accordingly, something an analog system couldn't ever do, not nearly to the level that pixie boxes do it these days

True, when electronics really bite the dust, you're fucked, it becomes a piece of plastic with some wires attached (maybe you're like me and take it apart to make away with it's useful components, but still) but I don't know how many times have you had to drive with, say, a carb that had it's float sinking, for example. Or just a carb/dizzy that wasn't performing 100%, which seems extremely common

On the issue of screens, it's mandated by burger laws to have a back facing camera, and it's a cheap do-it-all display. I hate them, but they're unlikely to go away. People are shove screens in their face constantly at home/work/wherever with their phones, so they dislike the fact that their newest car doesn't have one

And of course people expect six gorillion bullshit thingies in their cars, it's an amazing way to get monis out of the car

TL;DR learn how2computer, it's not that hard, and it's very useful, and we're only going deeper into it all

>itt

tfw watchdogs is real

Nobody else wants to return to carburettors, though. You can work on EFI vehicles yourself just fine.

To be fair only chrysler is that retarded I hope and you can have EFI and nice ignition without needing an infotainment system.

>all the EFI cucks ITT
get off of my Veeky Forums you fucking normies

>Only normies want good cars

???

because EFI and ECUs are objectively superior. the only people who don't like them are retarded boomers who can't figure out how to plug a laptop into the ECU

>good

Sour grapes lol

>implying

I'll repeat what the other guy was saying.

Nobody is stopping you from buying an old car and driving.

>Not being able to appreciate both

somebody get this hothead outta here

You can literally LS or SBC swap your car, if it doesnt already have one (and it should) and put a carbed intake on it and rip out all auxiliary electronics. Stop being a pleb.

Or well maintained old stuff with poor safety. Even well maintained old stuff usually isn't as expensive as new stuff.

>a digitally cucked car ever lasting 25+ years
Driving an iPad with wheels will never match the feel of pure metal and gasoline.

Cars are more reliable and easy to diagnose than ever
Have fun chasing those vacuum leaks

>hating cars so much that you think chasing vac leaks is a bad thing
you dont have to be old to miss the times when man was man, and hands were put to work, theres a beauty in that, and theres a beauty in chasing vac leaks. Im so sorry that you will never feel that feel.

Only retards miss their cars not working right over something so small that can be fixed in minutes on a modern car, assuming it even becomes an issue

You're such a hipster that you have rose tinted glasses for a time when you weren't even alive

Cars have been using computers for over 30 years

oops my keyless start broke, better grab the lube and call the dealer

Except keyless start really doesn't wear out and break like an ignition switch does. And even then cars have redundancies just in case
Pic related, Mercedes keyless start from like 15 years ago has a regular ignition switch when you pop off the button

>digitally cucked
The only possible cucking goes on in the coding, bruh. An electronic system does as it's told by the code, just as a mechanical system does as it's designed, and it's vacuum/hydraulic lines/mechanical inputs tell it to

And the keys for long-lasting electronicals and pixie-using equipment in general are simple: keep cool (close to room temp if you live in leafland or alaska), and keep away from dirt, water, oils, or any other contaminant. If things aren't engineered to fail after a certain amount of hours of service/amounts of cycles, it'll last for literally 4 decades

Heck, here's an old-ass calculator that still works despite being about 50 years old (granted, it was repaired, but it's possibly older than anyone browsing this board right now)
youtube.com/watch?v=2BIx2x-Q2fE

Of course, with constant advances in technology, you may want to make changes along the way. You may want to update the main components every 15 years or so, giving more response and better all-around control and finer tuning, all the while keeping it 100% controlled by you

my hipster-ness only goes as far as refusing to buy a car from the iPad era as my pride and joy. I own an old car though and will happily work on it when something goes wrong, because its usually an easy fix. Digi-cars can be hard to fix because of their digital nature, machines will always be machines i guess. Maybe its something that you have to experience in order to understand someones love for it!
pic related

So what makes a computer controlled car from the 80s where you can't even interface with the ECU without expensive hardware better than modern computer controlled "digicars" where you can interface with the ECU with readily available and standardized hardware?

>Just turn your steering wheel with the engine off and you see what I am talking about...

Dear heavens, you mean like... NON power steering?!!?!

Can't really hate though, my car came with nonPS but with a bigger steering wheel.

Hello! I would like to replace the:

>Fuel Injectors
>MAF sensor
>TPS
>O2 sensors

or
Hello! I would like to
>buy a carb rebuild kit

Ignorance is nothing. Carbs are literally a rock with holes drilled through it. Are you less than a rock?

So, what's the "cut-off point" so to speak, for you? I personally don't mind electronics, as long as they're robust. The thing seems to be this trend of everything being fucking interconnected these days and it can be such a pain

I'd love for cars to be more accessible in that sense, but they're sealed from factory for good reason (and monis of course)

One big thing could be the need for more sophisticated/expensive electronic tools and scanners just to access the more intricate diagnosis functions of the car. Granted, it's in part automakers trying to avoid scams by people and retards blowing their engines, and in part forcing everyone to the "authorized [brand] dealer"

Surely you noticed that turning the steering on a car that's supposed/designed to be unassisted is easier than turning the steering on a car which usually has hydro/electric steering but is dead

Heck, I remember once driving a 1973 Ford pickup with no power steering, and besides turning when completely stopped, it was fairly easy and felt natural. Tried that in my 90's bmw a few times (shut off unexpectedly while driving) and it was way heavier than the Ford, same with a 2012 Honda CR-V, which has electric steering and it's a damn exercise, my father couldn't wrestle that thing to safety easily

Why replace all of that, though? Can't pin-point the issue?

Get a horse.

This

It's piss easy to find out which one of those things is wrong on an EFI system

A $100 Bluedriver can interface with Mercedes computers pretty easily, even stuff like the tranny computer, and can tell you about all the common stuff that can go wrong
Very rarely will you need a fancy laptop for diagnosis, if at all

I think the happy medium between the efficiency and ease of tuning offered by computers, with the simplicity and elegance offered by mechanical solutions, lies in the higher end cars of the mid to late 90s, with some example up to the early 2000s. Computers had taken up the jobs where their benefits were overwhelming, while still being relatively simple to tune, replace, jury rig, etc. Any job not immediately and simply improved by a computer was still mechanical, and by the late 90s these solutions were at their peak. For example, I've seen plenty of people dropping BMW engines of the era into all kinds of cars, mating all kinds of trannies and accessories, custom chips+tunes, and crazy after market parts. Some guys in a home garage, others in a small shop, but they all could service any part of the car without touching the ECU 99% of the time . Not limited to BMW, plenty of this happening with higher end Jap engines as well, just gave an anecdote.

It was pretty much inevitable since fuel injection started, having an mixture sensor and a computer control the ration to keep it always pretty much perfect is just better.

americans can't into engineering and require computer assistance for literally everything

i invite you to go to any DIY forum and count the number of projects that DON'T use a Raspberry Pi

>solid state electronics arent a thing
the absolute STATE of americans

Make me an all mechanical system that can detect an input from a photovoltaic sensor and initiated a response withing milliseconds

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clockwork
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_computer

ECUs are not bad but come on, mechanical timing is a solved engineering problem. even modern ECUs are not about pure timing, but about modulating fuel-air mix (which is a non-issue in non-performance settings anyway because the power/efficiency losses are negligible)

>I don't understand electronic fuel injection nor do I understand how to install an aftermarket ecu which gives my full control over my car but it's okay tho because I wouldn't know how to tune it anyway

Those move at the speed of sound. Electricity moves close to the speed of light
ECUs control more than just air fuel mixtures

The only thing I really hate about modern cars is the infotainment screens taking over the gauge clusters.

Because "Just be sensible, stay focused and use good judgement" never caught on.

Buy a Mazda

yeah man, Uncle and Grandpa both got sportier trucks, one a dodge and one a chevy. both had some sort of malfunction that caused the computer to gradually limit the max speed to around 10mph with nothing actually being wrong with the engine.

I can't imagine Cletus trying to sync all of those Webers