I think I found what the problem with GT86's sales is.
Why buy an underpowered, gutless Toyota when for the exact same price you can buy a 2 series coupé which has 1.7 times the performance and at least twice the cool factor. As much as I wish it success, the GT86 just can't compete in Europe. Is there any reason to get the Toyota over the BMW when they cost exactly the same (at least here).
BMW are driven by soyboys who got it from daddy and sandniggers who think it'll help open bob
Shouldn't matter for a real enthusiast who's just looking for a fun car. Especially since both cars cost exactly the same new.
>electric steering
lol
well then yeah I guess. But then you'd get ragged on by Beemercucks for it not being an M or whatever
BMW is run by kikes while Toyota at least cares about its customers.
It has an M package version but honestly? Nigga I can't afford it
Nitpicking. Tell me if you like the driving feel instead.
You can get a base model 2 series without the useless normie gadgets
What country and what price?
In the USA, the base 2 series is 34k USD and the GT86 is 26k USD.
The problem with the 86 is actually numerous problems both in its physical components and the age in which the car was produced.
This car would have thrived in the early 00's during the time where you see a large cultural involvement with things like Fast and Furious and Tokyo drift and the like.
The second thing is the car itself. It's very overpriced compared to similarly performing vehicles and offers little for what it's apparently worth. The only real thing it has going for it is that it's slightly lighter than the average car and it's rwd. That's really it. There's nothing particularly special about it.
For 27k you get an rwd car that is 2700lbs as its two primary advantages and selling points. The main disadvantages are the price, the lack of a good interior, the shitty rattling plastic, the garbage sound system that resonates if you turn it up a little too high because the road noise is ridiculous, thin prius size tires, and to top it all off a lack luster engine with really shitty performance due to a massive torque dip that seriously hinders it.
Instead of coming out in 2012 it should have come out in 2002. It would have fit in with all the other cars of that Era and competed very well with them
I feel like Apple/Google could stop this if enough people continue to bitch about it.
The 86/brz is the choice car of soyboy "car enthusiasts"
I don't even think they're actual enthusiasts they're just hipsters of the car world who buy things because they look cool rather than because they have an eye for a performance vehicle. Whenever someone brings out the numerous issues with it that don't even touch on the other problems not related to the performance it's always "benchracer" memes and shit. Because a real enthusiast would want to know the data behind their performance on a track and all these intervals and calculations. Retards cry "benchracer" because they can't find any reason to ever rebut so they put literally no effort in to defend themselves
For the US market though there isn't a lot of competition for that segment. I see more and more econo-model BMWs and Mercedes around, but that's still an expensive way to be better than a Civic or a VW as far as I can tell.
I'm not surprised at all that the 86 isn't much of a hit in Europe, but in the US it's a pretty obvious player for a cheap car that delivers on sporty things rather than normie things.
>should have come out in 2002
2002 was around the last year before sport coupes bit the dust in the USA. Supra died, Celica died, MR2 died, RX7 died, 240sx died a while before that because we didnt even get the S15 due to slumping sales, etc.
Poland
GT86 - 38,260 USD
2 Series - 38,113 USD
>GT86 is 26k USD
Wow I'm kinda angry after reading this. Fuck Toyota if that's the case. What were they thinking?
If Toyota sold bare rolling shells of the 86, would you buy one Veeky Forums?
They were thinking that shipping something to Poland is more expensive than shipping something to the Land of the Free.
>For the US market though there isn't a lot of competition for that segment. I see more and more econo-model BMWs and Mercedes around, but that's still an expensive way to be better than a Civic or a VW as far as I can tell.
I was leaning more towards of price per performance. Without bias towards the drive train and other features because every car has its pros and cons the car is very expensive when a car from the same fucking dealership is the same price and has superior performance. For the price of a brz you can buy a wrx and the wrx will smoke the brz because it has a turbo, awd, wider tires, etc
For the price of a brz you can buy a Honda civic si with the Honda performance suspension add on and have better performance (and suspension) than the brz.
For a few thousand more at 29k you can buy a 370z while it doesn't have an lsd it is significantly more powerful and faster because of it.
The car doesn't seem to bring enough to the table to warrant its price. I bet if you added the advantage that it only cost like 24k it would be wildly more popular.
Well remember the s200 was around, the 350z was around iirc and the like.
Does poland have high import taxes? I read that the GT86 is more expensive in europe due to taxes from local governmments and from the EU
Displacement tax and horse power tax and all that shit
>m240i costs 60K
>gt86 costs 20K
great comparison fuckhead
>inb4 buy a 220i
>buying a low spec bmw just to have a bmw
kys niger
Yup. It's stuck in no-man's land where maybe you want light or maybe you want power or maybe the extra few thousand means something or maybe you can't just get a miata instead. You'd think somebody else would have come in and bested it by now, but there it is still being a major consideration if it checks the right boxes for you.
Well in any case they've done a major fuck-up, making their cheaply made, underpowered sports coupé directly compete with BMWs and other European manufacturers who offer superior quality and performance for the same price or less.
That might be true. I got the prices directly from the official Polish websites of each manufacturer. Come to think of it, Japanese cars were never that cheap here.
but GT86 is a displacelet with no horsepower
You're just shitposting. Did you even read the thread before writing this, retard?
Lmao
But in all seriousness this is why vw makes a car with exactly 101hp in one of those countries because if you have 101hp or less you get a massive tax benefit.
>generic bimmer cooler than gt86
Why do Americans and (other) shitskins do this? Is it because it has an exotic flag in the logo?
Pretty much. It's funny though because if you see somebody with the cheapest bimmer or benz or whatever then you know right away they only bought it because they couldn't afford a real one.
in many countries in Euroland, they tax you like crazy if your car has more than 100HP or has an engine larger than 1.2L
Which I find pretty sad to hear
Brand image. Tell me what's cooler - A 3 series or a fucking Corolla? Toyota doesn't have nearly as interesting line-up as BMW and never did. Toyota's most popular bread and butter cars are so fucking boring and mundane compared to BMW's. Really makes you think huh? And this is coming from a guy who loves Japanese cars and has wouldn't be seen dead in a Bimmer.
>60k
That's the M2 price
>Toyota doesn't have nearly as interesting line-up as BMW and never did
But nobody is going to look at your Corolla and think you have a small dick. They'll just think it's a boring appliance car and you just don't give a shit. For the price of a cucked up BMW you could get something that's a perfectly respectable something a bit nice without looking tryhard.
I mean the old guy who obviously has money down the road has a 2 series and it's like
>well ok
>I guess you didn't see fit to spend a lot of money on it
>probably you're being green or whatever
>but hey you can park it in the driveway and not bring down property values
>For the price of a cucked up BMW you could get something that's a perfectly respectable something a bit nice without looking tryhard
Give me an example or I'm calling bullshit.
I'm not going to go price-checking but pretty much anything in the midrange where you spend more than you really need to but that shows itself to be a practical "I'm not poor" solution.
I mean at least get a 3 series so you can be the "hey I can afford a 3 series just like anybody else or maybe I just like it so fu" guy.
>BMW offers superior quality than Toyota
DROPPED
GT86 itself
Toyotas whole lineup has always consisted of only fwd shitboxes
This is not an example. You're full of shit.
Refer to GT86's 200 PS vs. 2 series' 340 PS
ford fanboy here
you can't tell me toyota has anything interesting compared to bmw
oooweee look at my prius i can't wait to pick up the ladies with this
Some of us are old enough to use Veeky Forums.
Honestly if Toyota brought back RWD small economy cars I would personally suck their CEO's tiny jap dick.
Yeah but nobody other than a bimmerfag or benchracer in the US looks at a 2 series and thinks
>oh wow it has more power than an 86
Wow really? You got a car with more power than an 86? Good job! My busted Altima from 10 years ago also has more power than an 86. I'll let you drive my minivan sometime.
When did you realize that Toyota completely fucked up with that shitty engine?
kek gt86 fags eternally btfo
Are you having fun?
If you're still here and remember a time when Toyota sold RWD Corollas you need to re-evaluate your life choices. That said I couldn't thank them enough if they brought back RWD Corollas.
You'll be here forever, too. I think Dante forgot to include Veeky Forums in the outer circles of Hell.
>RWD hatchback
You bet your sweet ass I am
*cuckback
tfw it's not even reliable
Pretty sure this is the outermost, where he met Virgil.
Then why is it already too late to go back?
Fuck your sourceless blasphemy
Fine. Coupé, if you're too insecure for a hot-hatch, cpt. Tinypenis.
I would for sure consider it.
I know it’s a meme but I’d drop an LS2 in that bitch and a 6-speed and rear end from a C6. Ditch the rear seats, and mount up some buckets+harnesses for the front too. After that, coil overs and then a roll cage.
Alternatively, a Chrysler EDZ\EDJ Longblock with an 80mm turbo and a 6-speed tranny, and gravel tires and have a sweet rallybanger.
In which hellhole do you have to live in, in order for a M240i to cost the same as a BRZ/GT86. In Germany the 218i(136 hp btw) is 3k less and doesn't offer a LSD in any trim. 220 i already starts 3k above, so they are not at all comparable. And the 240 costs almost 50% more than the BRZ, how is this thread alive, I have no idea.
I am sorry, I was looking only at Subarus, the Toyota comes 3k cheaper than the BRZ, making it the same price as the 136 hp Open-diff base model BMW.
t.busrider
In the US:
- The BMW is **$9,000** more...
- The 86 is **550-lbs lighter** and comes standard with a mechanical limited-slip differential. The BMW comes only with an open diff.
- The BMW is boring.
They're selling them just fine. Most stealerships can't even keep them on the lot. Just because you can't afford a slow but fun toy doesn't make it a failure. Most people buy these because they look cool. A 2 series is not cool.
The gt86 is 52k in the dutch caliphate, top fucking kek that'll get you a 2 year old m135i
They have a target market with the 86: people looking to upgrade their Scion tCs
People had no problem pretending those were sports cars either.
I dont understand why people call this car slow? 0-60 is like 6.2 seconds or some shit, but imo that's pretty quick for a car. Prior to owning a BRZ, I exclusively rode bikes, everything for 1000c I4's to single 650's. Sure they were fast as fuck and being able to hit warp speed at a flick of the wrist was exhilarating, but it's the same reason I sold my R6 for a DR650. There's just something a lot of fun about being able to toss around a lightweight vehicle that you can squeeze all the power out of. It's why my next bike will be probably be a super moto of some sort
>for the exact same price you can buy a 2 series coupé which has 1.7 times the performance
I dont believe it.
Germany:
GT86 (200ps) €30k
218 (136ps) €30k
220 (184ps) €36k
230 (252ps) €42k
52k Euros? That's like almost $69k USD. That's absolutely insane.
>There's just something a lot of fun about being able to toss around a lightweight vehicle that you can squeeze all the power out of.
This. Just got back from some errands and sure on the one hand why would I need to hammer on it so hard just to whip around town? But on the other hand I didn't see anybody else looking like they were having nearly as much fun. Not even the BMW I was behind for a while making me work a little.
They dont sell the base models in america. So they think those cars more luxerious.
In europe there shitloads of 316 and 318 everywhere which makes the cars nothing special. A Bmw 3 is the poorfag douchebag car guy "sportscar" here since ages.
Same with mercedes. In europe fucking garbage trucks and streetcleaning machines have a big fat mercedes star. So much luxery.
I like the gt86 as a platform and for how it looks. Appearance is the one thing you can't drastically change without completely nogging it out so it should be an important consideration. I'll just engine swap it and throw in a supercharger if I feel the need for more power.
LSD is optional on the BMW though.
I just built every trim of the US 2-coupe including the M-sport. None of the packages or options had an LSD in them.
Its not offered in the builder, its at M Performance parts
I asked a BMW rep, he said that there is no option on the 218 or the 220 with LSD.
Yeah lsd only available for 6 cylinde models (also applies to 3/4/5 series)
So lemme get that straight, you are either paying the same money for a smaller car with less power and open diff OR you are paying 50% more for a car with 50 more horsepower and a locking diff?
This thread is great.
Not where OP lives obviously.
the 220i comes with a great engine though
In the land where they make them, where there are no import taxes on the BMW, still it isn't financially or logically sound to buy the BMW.
Checked the Polish site of BMW, the 218i starts at the same as the Toyota in Poland at 130k polish zlote.
He is just a baiting retard and there isn't a car with the same performance for the same price, new.
Imma be honest, if the OP's situation is indeed true, even though I am the biggest car weeb ever conceived and living in the eastern part of Europe, that has turned me off of any BMW ever. I would not even think about it twice and get the BMW.
But it is at least 4k more expensive.
It's $4k more expensive, but think about how much you would need to spend on a GT86 to match the performance
It's a car with 15 less horsepower and open diff, not to say that it is over 250 kilograms heavier than the Toyobaru.
86 is perfect for the 20-30 year old who's starting out to drive manual rwd, wants a new car with modern amenities and features/safety. Sure you can buy an e46 m3 or a c5 z06 but that's better as a weekend car rather than a daily and gas will be better
OP said he was looking at Subaru BRZ prices
The BRZ is 3k more expensive than the GT86, still isn't anywhere near close the 240 he is describing. Maybe comparable to 220i and still got over the points here
With 15 less hp but with a already turbo'd 4 cyl engine for easy and cheap tuning options.
the lowest trim in my country (US) comes with 248 hp
First, you glossed over the other two major points, then you got the engine wrong, since the new 220i's come with the B48, not with the N20 and in the site shown, there is tune that ups the power by 10% which brings the power to the Toyobaru's level. And it's more expensive and it is more cramped, especially in the back.
nobody would ever call you a benchracer
they'd call you a busrider
There's no way this'll happen due to fwd being safer
I'm not the other user.
But the site says it adds 40hp for the B48 engine.
Keep in mind that is just a safe ecu flash, turbo'd engines have huge potential.
burgertuning.com
Yeah well muh co2 taxes goyim. Almost 55k eurbucks for the manuel. I wish I was memeing on you. Our base models also tend to have even less shit in them than other countries. Brands like benz have even started producing dutch-only "lease editions" which is code for "AC is an option famalam"
Miata drives better for ~$2k less only downside is it's ugly
Isnt it cheaper buying and importing from germany?
Yeah, my bad, it is actually 55 at the crank which makes it 240 at the crank and is decent power.
But it might void warranty, which is the biggest part of buying a new vehicle.
The CO2 taxes are also levied on imported cars. They're reduced by 1% per month after the first registration. I've never bought a vehicle in the Netherlands and only imported them from Germany. I do pay some in the kike tax but I still end up saving 2k on a 10k vehicle because of various costs and reasons
JB4 tunes are non warranty voiding f a m
I guess they put that huge disclaimer at the bottom just for legal reasons, which is understandable, because America.
I'm the second type of person from the first reason lol
But I want an E30 so it's ok
Could they undertune it purposely then to purposely skirt that? Dumbass asking.