/egg/ - Engineering Games General - Formerly /svgg/

Apparently you make and manage hotels for aliens.

>no mining
>no engineering
>just Trump in Space

>building walls in space
>deporting illegal aliens

I liked space games, especially youknowwhichone
Too bad theres nothing to do after landing on a few planets, and the mods add anything but stuff to do

real life will be the best space engineering game soon
sadly it's too expensive to buy right now

Space is my thing. I love space games. But to be honest: They all kind of suck. It's like a big collection of games that all do one thing I really want, packaged with a bunch of shit I don't.

And I've found many of them to be lacking in gameplay. Sure, you can build beautiful creations, but my autism demands context. And I see no point to building something that serves no actual purpose. To me, the "make your own fun" meme is the bane of creative games. Especially when lazy devs see that their games are popular with people with a different kind of autism, who just want to build shit for its own sake. At this point I own at least three engineering games that have cool building systems and next to no gameplay. They are Space Engineers, Simple Planes, and Besiege.

Besiege and Simple Planes kind of highlight how it's hard to put actual gameplay into these games that are, for all intents and purposes, glorified editors. In both games I built a simple creation for early stuff... and then ended up using it barely or not at all altered for other challenges in the game. Ones that ended up being poorly thought out and extremely simple.

And those two actually tried. Most of these games just give you the ability to build shit, and fall apart after that. But just building shit isn't enough. I want to do shit with the shit I build. And I don't mean aimlessly drifting across a sandbox doing nothing. Or worse than nothing, endlessly farming resources for the privilege of getting to continue farming resources. That's more a job than a game.

Rant over, I guess. I'm just pissed at this genre I like constantly being marred by extremely poor design decisions. A lot of these devs need someone to kick them in the ass and tell them to make a proper fucking game already.

>Crossout in OP
Welp, time to leave /egg/

See ya, poosers!

>extremely poor design decisions
This is something i won't understand ever, or basically proves that the people who made those decisions never touched a videogame ever.
AKA: Companies ruled by marketing.

Please, opine about chode as well. Shit looks cool as all hell on youtube.

Yep, i should get a good stick and go to the nearby graveyard /simg/.
At least i would know how to steal a plane and smash it into somewhere one day.

are we talking about that game again?

No, im talking about spengos, i pirated the "other" game and got tired after like 4 hours, ended up "playing" space engine.

After PUBG and Tarkov fixed the DayZ formula I firmly believe that all sandbox contexts can be fixed and made competitive given the proper effort.

>we will never take apart any of these games and give them real gameplay elements ourselves

>spend half an hour nigrigging randomized parts you found lying around in to a semifunctional tank
>spend the other half hour blasting people still looking for parts because they didn't please RNGesus
>match over, no blueprints, no consistency, every match is just more RNGesus dicksucking
Any game with a high amount of randomization is only fun if something is actually allowed to grow out of the chaotic starting conditions over the span of weeks or months

What game are you talking about?

>if something is actually allowed to grow out of the chaotic starting conditions over the span of weeks or months
That's exactly what DayZ was and it was an abject failure of emergent gameplay. It became
>wait for server to reset
>mob through Cherno grabbing some gear
>mob through .mil places grabbing endgame gear
>make camp
>hunt down people who just spawned
>repeat until server reset
Awful.

>spend half an hour nigrigging randomized parts you found lying around in to a semifunctional tank
>spend the other half hour blasting people still looking for parts because they didn't please RNGesus
you left out
>spend the final 15 minutes fighting the other remaining 5 tank crews with your just about fully functional tank
>start new game

DayZ wasn't an engineering game

Video game interacting person's lack of general knowledge of that person zone of combat

The result will be exactly the same. You are essentially describing the average spengies server, in totality. We already know that "matches" lasting weeks or months long do not work because that presents literally zero change as to the current status quo.

The hardest pill to swallow about Space Engineers is that they decided to make Medieval Engineers at the same time. And put it out for the same price. Developing two games that will be stuck in Early Access forever at the same time? Fuck off.

Also, Space Engine is the tits. I should reinstall that.

I don't have it. It looks cool, though. I'm holding off for now, because everything I've seen of it is pre-set scenarios. And that's the sort of game that seems cool to play with an actual campaign, rather than a string of missions connected by vague briefings. If I get to build a hyper-realistic space boat, I want to sail the starry seas. Also, the interface looks atrocious. Not just from a user friendly standpoint, but visually extremely unappealing. A minor gripe. But I'm keeping my eye on it, and expect to buy it some time in the future.

Spengies was/is limited by it's own technology and lack of real gameplay. In something with relatively low performance impacting machines like Tekkit you'll see people on anarchy servers going from simple hunter gatherers to forming small bases and eventually peaceful cities, something that can't happen if you're confined to hunting by the fact you can't build any machines that could actually support a small civilization.

You still run into the same problem of the match lasting too long and becoming impenetrable to anyone who wasn't there when the server reset. I still maintain that any engineering game that aims to have engaged, competitive gameplay should last no longer than an extended round of SS13.

>massive amounts of uninhabited land
>individual/small group player bases are typically miles apart from each other
>enough resources to start where ever you want
>impenetrable
Besides anyone that gains real power in this situation would be concerned with other long-time players, not fresh spawns with no resources. I doubt the middle classes in this scenario would care much for them either because it's equally as pointless for them to kill new players as it is for the higher classes

>Besides anyone that gains real power in this situation would be concerned with other long-time players, not fresh spawns with no resources.
This is completely false. 85% of an established group's time (there was no such thing as a successful solo DayZ player- period) was spent hunting down noobs and fresh respawns. Anyone who joins and tries to start building without resorting to VC-tier tunnel networks is going to be scouted, raided, and destroyed within hours by larger factions looking for easy resources.

>I doubt the middle classes in this scenario would care much for them either because it's equally as pointless for them to kill new players as it is for the higher classes
No it isn't, especially when the point is competing with them. That's like implying a person playing PUBG wouldn't shoot an unarmed player because it's not worth it; it's absolutely worth it. You're competing to win the game against him and he might neck you with a glock 18 later while you're looting some guy you just killed.

This also requires you to completely commit to the game on a daily basis. You don't have the option to not play, or to leave before you're done doing what needs to be done. You also run into the insolvable problem of offline protection and 2:30AM raiding.

Your theorycrafting flies in the face of all practical experience.

>still using DayZ as a benchmark
The only thing to do in that game is hunt down faggots, there's nothing at all to build.

And what do you expect people to do in this properly fixed engineering game concept except fight other factions? You're still competing with those other factions, thus killing them whenever the opportunity presents itself can literally only benefit you.

Factions, not individuals. Besides there's still the engineering endgame of making the most efficient machines possible.

>Factions, not individuals
Irrelevant, and a non-sequitur at that.
>Besides there's still the engineering endgame of making the most efficient machines possible.
That's not an endgame, that's a neverending quagmire of fatigue and burnout with no win condition.

>That's not an endgame, that's a neverending quagmire of fatigue and burnout with no win condition.
Then explain why it's kept people occupied in reality for thousands of years

>not fresh spawns with no resources.
Every open-world "real consequences" game says otherwise, griefing new players is the end goal for many old players, to the point that new players need to assume that every old player is out to get them. See: EVE online, Haven and Hearth, etc.

>Then explain why it's kept people occupied in reality for thousands of years
Explain what this comment has to do with fixing the inherently broken concept of the engineering sandbox, the flaws of which I have detailed at length and you have failed to address, even the damning problem of offline protection and early-morning ganking/raiding.

And how many complex systems of engineering are in those games?

There are lots of complex mechanics in those games, but when the point of the game is killing other players, players are going to get killed and new players are the easiest to kill. If the point of your game isn't killing other players then don't even include it as an option. Having "complex systems of [engineering]", as opposed to "complex systems of [other things]", won't change anything.

What do other game genres do for multiplayer? When PvP is meaningless and doesn't work with the survival mechanics, what are other options?

>it's a 'theorycrafter invents reasons to ignore reality" episode

But how many of those games let you actually build real things in the game space that you can actually walk around and interact with? That's the difference, if people can build things that are actually there and not just numbers in a menu they'll spend their time doing it.

Reality does have a win condition.

Just not individually.

And then they'll use it to kill you at the earliest opportunity.

What else is there for multiplayer besides PVP and Co-op? The only other player-player interaction systems I can think of are stuff like Spore's race sharing or Elona's custom houses and NPCs but those aren't true multiplayer, they're basically just vanilla-enabled singleplayer game mods.
You either have players play alone against the computer, play alone against other players, play together against the computer, or play together against other players. There aren't any other potential interactions.

>dave is an asshole
>club dave with rock
>sharpen rock to stab dave
>put sharp rock on stick for more reach to safely stab dave
>throw sharp rockstick at dave
>make tiny rockstick and launch at dave using curved stick
>replace sharp stone with sharp metal for enhanced STOPPING POWER
>make stick of metal and sharpen it, cut down dave

Do I have to keep going or have I made my point clear?
Fuck Dave.

>he's never been on a server where a group of high level players organized themselves into a police force

And once they've figured out what works on the test server, they'll replicate it and kill you with it as quickly as possible on the game server.

>WSA will never stop chestbeating over the One(1) time they were simspeed nazis

>everyone everywhere is trying to murder everyone in every anarchy server
This just isn't what I've seen. Even in rust, something where the closest thing to engineering is manipulating other people, I've seen people organizing in to peaceful communities even through resets

>I've seen people organizing in to peaceful communities even through resets
For what fucking purpose? How is this fun in any way, shape, or form?

Furthermore, how is it possible to keep griefers out without superior firepower or server kick/blacklist powers? In the first case the community isn't peaceful and in the second it's a moot point because conflict is being avoided through an out-of-game meta rather than the goodness of people's hearts.

I don't know but somehow I had a great time being the minister of food and fresh water for my moderately sized community in rust
There was paperwork and everything

>What else is there for multiplayer besides PVP and Co-op?
Roleplay by the looks of it

Too bad we can't roleplay spengies into a good game, huh.

youtube.com/watch?v=2Jmm4zel134

But in the end your roleplay is either coop or pvp.

You probably could if you roleplayed as a nihilistic cosmonaut who only wanted to see the universe burn.

Sounds like some DarkRP cancer bullshit to me.

Remember when Mengies tried to be a multiplayer-heavy game?
With factions and territories and combat?
With more survival features and compound blocks?

>doing anything other than killing each other is cancer

>r-roleplaying isn't c-cancer!
t. 14 year old DarkRP admin

So you're complaining that people aren't killing each other in the right way while refusing to admit people can have fun without killing at all?

RP literally killed Gmod. Fuck outta here with your bullshit.

This game is pretty fun so far.

>no trains yet

>we can't have games with jobs, political parties, and non-combat engineering because some faggots didn't understand how to integrate engineering elements in to darkRP and because I want to suck PlayerUnknown's dick
This is what it sounds like you're saying

It's called EVE.

It actually has those, looking at the changelogs, it's just that nobody plays it.

who else fell for the mengies meme, we should give it a try some time

I maybe will, the expectations are not that high, and the general aim is way more simple than the one in spengos, up to the point that you won't ever have a server when you go from mining operations to ship battles without any doing exploits or the server dying.

I fell for it at release, with the maps that were recolored asteroids.
It could have gone an interesting path but it instead it's partially a sandbox for features and an attempt at a regular survival game. Blocks are tiered and researched, blueprints are needed to build, tools are also unlocked. There's farming and shifting soil around too.
Still nothing in sight about the windmill or stuff like that from the trailer.

At least there's the suit for spengies r-right?

>liquid feminine compound ladders

Not too bad, but never, ever, ever belt copper wire.
Revamp your red circuit production.

What do you guys think about Stationeers?
I never played SS13, but I thoroughly enjoyed Wiremod and FTB, and it seems to have a lot in common with those.

>What do you guys think about Stationeers?
See and down.

youtube.com/watch?v=7ehqMz0v9gM

At least the ropes ""work"", right? We can always make pulley-operated elevators.

There's only so much fun you can have with it anyways.
From the little I played the current state of the game, survival building is tedious, even more than spengies.

>cuckout
>bought black andyellow paints for like 80 shekels each a while back
>check market now
>they are selling for about 380 each
>holy fug
>big market crash predicted tomorrow as knight rider event ends

Should I sell them?

sure, but they are nice colours

I'm aware of why I generally shouldn't, but that setup is intended to only feed my blue science and uses less than a half-belt of wire. When I make more red circuits they'll be elsewhere and, of course, will have their own wire production.

Which one of you was this?

S I P B O Y S

Hope you fags sold everything you owned in crossout over the weekend. Its almost too late now. The downward spiral has begun.

Some of us bought mengies because we thought it would help spengos planet development

This is the only real "engineering" game.

engineer a better gif recorder/converter, faggot

what the fuck does that even mean

It's aesthetic you aspie.

...

...

>Let's play a game.
>We will try to deduce how aspects of fictional 'verses would play out in real life.

Its viral marketers on Veeky Forums trying to create a meme.

>got 1300 talers
>can't sell anymore

Well that was an amazing waste of time. Socially speaking, quite fascinating.