Lets talk about the latest and greatest by Subaru the n/a FA20 engine
12.5:1 compression ratio 2 liter 4 cylinder. makes 200 hp at the crank but due to 155lb torque only 175 of those horses make it to the wheels.
We also know conrods bend when you increase torque.
Why did subaru not give her better conrods and higher torque ?
>explain
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engineered to meet a spec.
>but due to 155lb torque only 175 of those horses make it to the wheels.
That's not how torque or transmission losses work.
It's typical for auto companies to give an engine conrods that are only just big enough to meet the torque requirements, and they, along with the pistons, are almost always cast aluminum.
Doing any kind of engine work that significantly increases engine power output and torque (ECU tuning, head work, big cams, boost, nitrous) can result in a bent or broken conrod/shattered piston.
Kits do exist to put fuckheug forged H beam rods and THICC forged pistons in most common engines which, when included with better headgaskets, injectors, an ECU tune and a better fuel pump, you can squeeze 600-700hp out of a 2 liter with just a little boost.
>makes 200hp at crank but due to 155lb torque only 175 hp makes it to the wheels
>rods
>cast aluminium
Most conrods in engines are made of the shittiest cast aluminum the jews can buy. What, did you think they were steel or something?
That's not how it works.
Torque is literally power per rpm (in SI units)
> makes 200 hp at the crank but due to 155lb torque only 175 of those horses make it to the wheels.
That's also not how it works.
That IS how it works... It's called drivetrain loss. You think changing the gearing is going to give you more hp or something?
WHY TORQUE DIP AND DRIVE BY WIRE MUSH THROTTLE
DISGUSTINGU FAMIREEU REEEEEEEEEE
You would have the same loss if it made 200hp with 600lbs of torque.
Don't these do really well on E85?
They do well when you're at about 6000RPM WOT and then the light starts blinking and it doesn't quite stutter the way a rev limiter from 15 years ago would do.
And then you wish you could go to 8000 but some Jew clipped your angel wings.
Yes, E85 is relatively high octane sso you can utilise the high compression ratio without the peak cylinder pressure becoming too high.
I believe the conrods on the FA20 and most modern engines use sintered powder metallurgy rather than casting.
very garbage engine
No, predet and ringlings
Top 10 engine 4 out of the last 5 years.
>Torque is literally power per rpm (in SI units)
No its not.
>Yes, E85 is relatively high octane sso you can utilise the high compression ratio without the peak cylinder pressure becoming too high.
I don't think you have a good understanding of the engine combustion process or fuel octane. why are you using a trip code?
I have a very good understanding of both. If you weren't a newfag you would know that and why I use a trip.
>Torque is literally power per rpm (in SI units)
>11.5:1 compression ratio 2 liter 4 cylinder. makes 207 hp at the crank and 159lb torque
And it will never be the Toyobaru engine
im not a new fag, if i used a trip you would know that. but I'm not a fag with an over inflated sense of self importance
dsportmag.com
>The design of the connecting rods is mainly for ease and speed of mass production. Strength and balance is questionable. The face mating between the rod and cap is the new “zigzag” type. This zigzag design prevents the end cap from being assembled the wrong way and reduces the sheer forces on the rod bolts.
There's your answer, straight from Tomei Powered's engineering teardown.
Its well documented how poobaru makes expensive piles of shit for the amount of car you’re getting
Why doesn’t the sti have a closed deck? It’s such a slow piece of shit for $50-odd grand and it could be brought to life by more power
Came here to post exactly this.
OP is a faggot as usual.
Subaru does open deck because emissions. It's what happens when you don't make a single goddamn engine with direct injection so to pass US06 emissions tests you have to do all kinds of absurd shit.
not swapping in a ee20 diesel and coal rolling your lesbian car
too bad the only place selling them in NA is 10k for engine/harness/ecu so you still torque the shit out of your stock transmission
>BEAMS 3S-GE makes barely any more power and torque than the FA20
>And yet, Veeky Forums lauds and praises the 3S-GE for being a great NA engine
>While continually ripping on the FA20 for being weak and gutless
I mean come on lads, it's up near the 100hp/L mark. You really can't say it's making sweet fuck all power for an NA 2L, because it really isn't.
without googling it to be precise but isnt the 3sge an old af engine from the 90s and the fa20 from this decade?
It does well on E85 because yes its high octane but more so because aftermarket tunes don't care about emissions. An aftermarket, off the shelf tune for the fa20 running pump gas makes the engine 10x better than stock.
If you wanted it to be good on e85 you would be aiming for something closer 14:1 or higher with high lift, high overlap cams.
The BEAMS was made in the 90s. It also doesn't have a massive torque dip and makes good linear power and torque all the way from idle to the redline. Driveability matters more than peak power when talking about how goo an engine is. Stop benchracing
It doesn't make much sense.
>Driveability matters more than peak power when talking about how goo an engine is
That fails to take into account the fact the FA makes its power measurably lower in the rpm range. And the "massive torque dip" isn't really relevant unless your often WOT in the lower rev range.
I'm not trying to detract from the Beams engine, it's one of my favourite motors. But it's a much more raucous and race like than the FA20. You can't deny making 100hp/L under 7000rpm on a factory motor is impressive.
>You can't deny making 100hp/L under 7000rpm on a factory motor is impressive.
in 1998 it would be impressive
How many N/A cars are doing it today at a reasonable price point?
...
Actually it's harder now due to tighter emissions requirements. Look at how much the FA 20 makes with only one cat and a remap.
You seem to have forgotten to type your reply.
Was linking this question to this poster
The torque dip matters because shifting takes time and slows you down on a track.
Even more relevant is how frustrating it is flooring it out of a corner up a hill and having no torque to pull you out.
I'll concede that getting this power and relatively linear powerband in a modern engine NA is pretty good but there is no getting around the fact that driveability isn't as good as it should be.
The BRZ/86 should have a toyota v6
If you are on track you will always be above the dip.
It would need a much higher bonnet line them to to fit a V6 legally.
Camry i4 203hp/184lb should be okay
an i4 will also need a higher hood for pedestrian safety.
FA20-derived H6 with no stupid torque dip when?
When there is a market for it, so never.
No it fucking wouldn't, Honda and mazda get away with this without issue
Bullshit. They'll need one for their outbacks and whatever else some day anyway. Offer a brz with an H6 and power + no torque dip at the top trim level and it will sell.
They won't, The design is from Toyota and the entire engine, transmission and drive train is all subaru. Subaru would rather just throw the same turbo the WRX has into the BRZ and make it better, not some 6 cylinder engine for a puny ass engine bay in an era where emissions make manufacturers do shit like the torque dips
>Subaru would rather just throw the same turbo the WRX has into the BRZ
everyone has been saying this since the day it came out.
And yet they seem to be ok with letting the sales sink
It's difficult to imagine that somebody hasn't decided to intentionally let the model die off or to hold open room for a different model to be created to fill the gap.
Subaru probably isn't really interested in the car, Subaru does purely AWD vehicles and this BRZ is completely against their design philosophy.
I wish they updated the 3SGE BEAMS instead, that was a great engine. 210hp/160lbft in its last spec, I'm sure they get 220/170 out of it with an update.
You are an idiot with 0 understanding of regulations.
They're almost always sintered steel
With cast aluminium pistons
> 210hp/160lbft in its last spec
Yeah at 9000rpm... That's a bad choice for a 2800lb car. Even geared low as shit you'd still have to rev the tits off the engine just to keep up with traffic.
The turbo FA definitely makes more sense than an outdated 6 cylinder.
The problem here though, is whether or not Subaru would like to embark on a forced induction model is moot, as they're in agreement with Toyota and aren't allowed to deviate from engine spec under the joint venture. Same way Toyota hasn't commissioned a supercharged TRD variant.
in 1999 the Honda S2000 made 120hp/L.
>Even geared low as shit you'd still have to rev the tits off the engine just to keep up with traffic
You don't know what you are talking about, do you really think people in their sedans, trucks, or SUVs are going WOT at the green light? Get lost moron.
Revving the tits out of it is what's fun. That's why the torque dip is such a lulzkiller. You have like 2000RPM at the top end and you wind up banging th rev limiter all the time.
subaru has already turbocharged version of this engine in the WRX.
Maybe if you don't know how to drive
This isn't europe faggot. The average minivan or crossover is pushing 300hp and trucks are 400+ even at half throttle in those they'll be up your ass in a slow shitbox. I constantly have to almost floor it and I still got Stacey up my ass. Yes a lot of people go wot at the lights. Sorry we have the fucking freedom to do so.
Yeah keeping a shitbox at close to the redline is fun but in a $27k car... Not so much. That's not exactly easy on the engine in any car and isn't really necessary in the modern age of turbo's and shit.
Torque dip sucks especially in 1st when you can't drop another gear to stay ahead of it. It's unbelievable the gymnastics retards go through to defend this shit, especially on a car sold on delivering a NA feel with a video game throttle.
who cares if they're "up your ass"? literally doens't affect you in any way
What the hell does the price of the car have to do with having fun redlining it?
>buy cheap shitbox: might as well redline it
>spend dollerydoos: what a waste if I don't redline it
>This isn't europe faggot. The average minivan or crossover is pushing 300hp and trucks are 400+ even at half throttle in those they'll be up your ass in a slow shitbox. I constantly have to almost floor it and I still got Stacey up my ass. Yes a lot of people go wot at the lights. Sorry we have the fucking freedom to do so.
what the fuck do you drive? I make only 160hp at 6000rpm with 240 at 9000rpm so all my power is at the top end but I can easily keep up with traffic shifting at 4k. Do you know how gears work?
>I have the self-awareness of a nigger
you are retarded and don't know how to drive
Sure I do. I know I have to wind it out to keep up with the flow of MURICAN torque converter Stacy traffic because otherwise I'll be stuck in the toque dip.
Life got much better when I gave up and realized I can't just cruise comfortably with a little more engine on tap when I decide I need it.
I can't fucking slow faggots that hold up traffic and I'm not a piece of shit so I like to not fuck up traffic. When you're first in a line of traffic you better be putting the hammer down.
I got 2600lbs and 120hp with a 4spd auto. You still look like a fucking idiot shitfing 3 times to get across an intersection. You shouldn't need 4k rpm in traffic... Your engine sounds torqueless.
I will never understand this "keeping up with traffic" argument. It's just people that think they somehow lost an imaginary race whining or something. If this was an actual problem how can toyota sell any corollas? they have 130 hp and like 10 sec 0-60.
It's about going with the flow mate. Lazy traffic is lazy, but you want to go with the flow. You sound like the kind of person who doesn't understand why it's wrong to cruise in the left lane or who can't merge.
>You still look like a fucking idiot
nobody cares man. I bet you have road rage issues too
>4k rpm in traffic
It would be perfectly fine if it had torque at 4k instead of just being loud. That's why you have to get over it and understand that if you're not pushing 6k or more then you're just a fag who bought a shitty car that looks faster than it is.
Your average mall crawler spec crew cab does it in the high 5's. People will be up your ass in something that slow. Most asians buying corollas don't give a fuck though.
If you need more than 6k you need more torque.
>go with the flow
ya there's so much flow in stop and go city driving
>People will be up your ass in something that slow.
I still don't get how this is a problem for you, or me. Can you explain that?
It shines in city driving where you need to dart around the slowfags. I'm talking lazy Cindydriving areas where you don't need to go full rallymode to get ahead.
lmao you are such a fucking retard, what makes it better is that you think everyone is as stupid as you
why are you people still talking about this car like it costs $27k
it's $15k for lightly used and you can find it literally everywhere, unlike whatever autismal snowflake car you masturbate over
The whole point of this car is something NEW that's lightweight and rwd.
>1995 miata that's falling apart
>2015 ish toyobaru that costs about the same to purchase and insure as a economy sedan of the same year
>not dd'ing an antique
your definition of new is shit
My 2l TFSI had 221ftlbs from factory and will reliably run 400ftlbs.
VAG stronk
A used one is going to be riced out or actually driven hard as fuck. If you're okay with that then it's a good deal.
This is due to general efficiency, cost, rotating mass weight, and many many other factors. Just FYI.
No fucking shit. And?
the most extreme mods on the used ones in my area were some wheels and a trd exhaust, no one is slamming these cars
and what exactly would you purchase a sports car for? to baby around at 2k?
>that one guy that keeps saying you can't do engine swaps when Toyota and Subaru both swapped their engines for the super gt just fine and people on ft86 post pics of engine swaps
Just what is that guy's problem? Did he get buyer's remorse and is trying to hide it from himself? Is spending every waking brz thread bitching at people worse than throwing a few thousand for an engine swap?
Don't know what shitty engine you got. Mine are forged steel.
People here make theirs look like a full time attack car when we don't have any tracks within 3 hours. Or they lower and stance them. I've heard every exhaust there is for them.
You should drive your sports car hard as much as possible, I sure as hell would. That's also why I'd never buy a used car like that.
>Super GT
I'll give you the plethora of other swaps out there, but about the only thing in common Super GT has with the road going cars are the tail lights.
Have a 2jz swap bruh. Not my pic. It's a shame how much space there needs to be under the hood for pedestrian safety BS
So basically the Rad support panel has to be cut out, and there's minimal room for an adequate radiator and fan assembly. Fine for custom hoon mobiles, but not fit for consumer retail.
>putting an older engine in a newer car
Not true. You'd have much less loss because you'd be turning the transmission and driveshaft slower.
Putting that long lump of shit in any car. Just understeer my shit up.
Aren't you kind of defeating the purpose of the chassis by doing this?
you mean because of this?
Not at all. That engine is the same weight as a turbo FA setup and makes the same power as a built FA while being naturally aspirated. The chassis is light, stiff and balanced so it's a good choice for swaps.
They should get Porsche in on it
>High revving 2.5l H6 developed by skunkworks team of engineers from all three manufacturers
>Porsche version is called a 944