Going to test drive a BRZ later today

This

Sick of the high compression engine shit. Just give us bigger cylinders.

A car so fun it holds the world record for most car of the year awards ever.

2 litre. It gets 50 bhp over the Impreza only because the bore and stroke are different. That is also why it uses more gas.

>Torque dip

Expect minivans to smoke you and single women to laugh at ypu

If it had the FA20F from the WRX it would crap out on the track. The WRX engine with that single twin scroll turbo can't take that kind of abuse. Probably why the STI still uses an EJ motor.

Let me get this right, you're gonna buy a Subaru but want a BRZ over an Impreza. Are you gay?

The transmission on the BRZ is much better and the Impreza. The BRZ feels fast at normal speeds, the Impreza feels slow at all speeds.

to piss off S2000s

and Miatas

Not really, an Impreza is good on most terrains, whereas a BRZ is just a basic sports car that's designed to look like more than it actually is. Plus Imprezas are both smoother, cheaper and have a quicker excelaration. Face it, the Impreza is just an overall better car than a BRZ.

and Teslas

Faster?
Impreza 0-60 8.4
BRZ 0-60 6.2

An Impreza is an AWD ecobobox that doesn't have the ground clearance to really use that AWD.

A BRZ is a fun summer coupe.

A BRZ is terrible unless you drive it on city roads. An Impreza is an AWD vehicle that is capable of normal driving, as well as rallying and racing. Also, Imprezas do have faster excelaration off the line, depending on what model you get.

And yet people on here beat their dicks to the ae86.

Well my E Class beats the FR-S because it has more cargo and passenger volume and more power and a higher top speed.

>but I'd rather be driving the miata

Ok so you are clearly talking about the WRX and STI which have been separated from the Impreza for several years now. Yes, those are faster and the STI is a better track car.

Wait till MF Ghost gets an anime adaptation.

Lol not for long

Disappointment and a lingering pain in your anus from the onslaught of horny faggots that will ravish it when they see you driving such a gay ass car

You'll really like it, probably buy it. But over time as you realize it doesn't feel complete, like it is missing something and you mod it to "fix" all the performance shortcomings from the factory like they say on the forums. But it will never be enough, and you'll feel like that until you sell it.

Then when asked you'll say "yeah it was a great car, it was just a bit slow" just like everyone else.

The steering rack isn't nearly quick enough and there's no rear wiper.

Oh and because it's a test drive you won't bang the rev limiter all the time, so you'll completely miss out on those last 2000RPM where it feels like it should have felt the whole time.

Low power and lots of shifting

is it better than the wrx is my questio

It's too different for one to be "better" than the other. It's like the WRX's cucked little brother with so much autism it runs the school yard after the WRX went off to community college.

well im not op but would you mind which one would be a .ore fun daily driver for a college student who spends 90% of his time kn the city?

Well you'll first find out that deep down inside you are disappointed with it. Then one of two things will happen:

- You'll realize this and get an actually decent car like the WRX sitting next to it.

- You'll ignore that as you've fallen for the Veeky Forums shit posting memes and buy it, only to realize the mistake you've made a few months later and then you become another Veeky Forums meme shit poster trying to justify your purchase.

They're both fun in different ways. The BRZ definitely makes me feel more like I want to be 20 years old again. But when I was in college the carrying capacity of an Impreza was put to good use because there were always friends and crap to pack in and haul around, and the AWD made me king of the snowstorm.

Not really. It's more like a RWD Integra GSR without the hatch. So it's pretty great actually

More practical, yes. More fun to drive? Nah. You can keep your AWD sedan, I'll take lightweight RWD.

AWD is a meme. With good tires the BRZ is fine in the winter

How long did you own your 86?

That's what rainx is for you dingus. Steering is great, especially after an alignment.

It's more fun to drive than the WRX IMO

>- You'll realize this and get an actually decent car like the WRX sitting next to it.
Why do people keep comparing a lightweight NA, RWD coupe to a AWD, turbocharged sedan? They are 2 completely different driving experiences. Truth be told, the WRX has always been underwhelming stock.

which is funner/ a better drivers car yo hone my skills as an everyday driver?

Yeah that's why I bought some rainx a few months ago in fact. It's just one of those little things you notice after coming from a vehicle where you never even bothered using the rear wiper because the back window wasn't raked at such an angle.

Steering still needs to be quicker and less boosted even though every time you stop driving some rentalbox and get back in you remember why you bought a memeubaru because it feels that much closer to being a real car.

Do you have aftermarket wheels/tires on your car? Too many 86 owners put massive sticky tires on and ruin the whole experience.

Also, the stock alignment leaves a lot of room for improvement.

Let me put it to you like this. Half the time I get in the BRZ I have to remember that a person approaching middle age shouldn't be driving like a 16 year old and that I should be ashamed of myself, but then I keep tearing around like a complete tool without a care in the world again. The RWD setup is great for learning how to manage RWD imo, but you have to thrash it or else it's just a cheap underpowered wannabe car.

The WRX is almost as good and comes with things like an interior that isn't quite running in the 90s (which could be good or bad depending on your tastes) and you'll wind up having to manage Subaru AWD understeer instead of the more purist RWD skills.

Disappointment

>friend bought a 2017 brz
>one month in and hated it
>traded for a WRX

For the price it is impractical, slow, and just plain lame.

I have like 2004 WRX 16s on it or something like that at the moment. The tires are not anything you'd call sticky. I'd call them just sticky enough to make an off ramp genuinely frightening to take hard enough to get them to squeal like they're getting ready to let go.

What would you change about the alignment btw? I can't figure out what exactly I would want to change about it, but I'll have the opportunity to do so come summertime.

When used 86s start hitting that under 10k price point, you're going to hear a completely different tune from folks on here about that car.

oh i see
thank you for the input
im leaning towards the wrx

> Why do people keep comparing a lightweight NA, RWD coupe to a AWD, turbocharged sedan?

Perhaps because they cost the same, are often placed right next to each other on the lot, and one is a better over all purchase and more fun to drive right off the lot?

I think this has always been true. The whole argument against it is that for the money it's completely underwhelming.

Get it cheap enough, or add power to it and it becomes enticing.

A lot of people do. I got my BRZ off a guy who decided he couldn't live without the power in a WRX after all. Having been there and done that already, it simply gets my rocks off more to try to drive the piss out of a BRZ. Any stretch of road where you really need the power feels like erectile dysfunction, but the rest of it feels like simple fun.

>For the price it is impractical, slow, and just plain lame.
The 86 isn't for everyone, but I wouldn't call it impractical. But yeah, it's pretty slow in a straight line

>What would you change about the alignment btw? I can't figure out what exactly I would want to change about it, but I'll have the opportunity to do so come summertime.
At the very least front camber bolts

>Perhaps because they cost the same, are often placed right next to each other on the lot, and one is a better over all purchase and more fun to drive right off the lot?
The only time a stock WRX is more fun to drive than a stock BRZ is in a long straight line. Sure they are the same price, but like I said before, completely different driving experiences. One has turbolag, higher seating position, more weight, and prone to understeer, while the other sits low, is one of the lightest new cars you can buy new and oversteers with ease even at low speeds. If I wanted a practical sedan that's fun to drive I would rather buy a Civic Si.

>The whole argument against it is that for the money it's completely underwhelming.
It's 25k new. For that price it's arguably the most enjoyable car you can buy for the money. You have to be willing to rev the car high and be good at rev matching though because it you don't, the car falls flat on it's face. It's a car that needs to be driven in order to bring out it's full potential.

>front camber
Do you find yourself overwhelming the front end on corners? Something feels a little bit strange with hard steering inputs as well as on-center feel, but I can't put my finger on it beyond wanting to get out the strings and measuring tape to find out what the current alignment actually is and if it's obviously a $15 shit job.

It doesn't quite feel "there" the way a proper alignment does, but not really obviously poorly sorted from the factory beyond the rear dampers acting like a set of clods.

Did you buy your car used?

Have you ever tried driving the car after doing the pedal dance?

Yeah used, and the previous owner kept it in immaculate condition, but the rear tires being worn way down compared to the front doesn't tell me any lies, which partly leads me to wonder if the rear dampers are simply halfway blown out already and it's just time for new ones.

I'm not in need of the pedal dance yet. Only started to get irritated at the TC kicking toward the end of the summer when I got the hang of how much work the front end needs to be doing so that the rear doesn't skip out all the time. In the snow I find it generally useful to leave on.

For 25k (And to be fair the ones around here sticker for 30k+), you can get into a whole host of "fun" cars that don't need to be wrung out in corners to be enjoyed and that's why it's viewed as underwhelming and doesn't sell. You can spout how easily it understeers, how light weight it is, and how fun it can be to rev it to the moon to make power, and all the other shitposting defense metrics, but to the grand majority of buyers of new cars? It doesn't matter. Especially when on the test drive you don't get to experience any of that and all you are left with is a car with a boring interior and an uninspiring at low speeds engine for the price of every other fun car.

The people who actually buy new cars? They go into a dealership and say they want a fun car. They really don't know what they want because let's face it, most people don't shit post on forums all day long. They are given two options by the salesman: A nice looking coupe, or they have this sedan with a hood scoop. Well coupes are fun and it looks nice so they pick that one first. They get in to drive and take off and notice how this engine feels exactly like the econobox they are trying to get out of. It really doesn't go anywhere, doesn't make any cool sounds, and just kind of labors around. Maybe they'll be lucky and take a turn or two and smile. Up next is the WRX. Instant torque on press of the pedal. The tiny turbo spools up instantly (How I know you haven't driven one and are just shit posting to justify your purchase at this point) and gives a nice shove. They throw it into the few lame corners they can on the test drive and smile as it takes them with little complain and still get some decent acceleration out of the corner.

At 10-15k? It's a whole different game. It's not that much more than the clapped out 90s or earlier 2000s go to's, it's still relatively new, aftermarket is decently blooming, and that leaves you money to improve the chassis however you like.

Civic Si's only take premium fuel

>For 25k (And to be fair the ones around here sticker for 30k+),
Where do you live?
>. You can spout how easily it understeers, how light weight it is, and how fun it can be to rev it to the moon to make power, and all the other shitposting defense metrics, but to the grand majority of buyers of new cars? It doesn't matter. Especially when on the test drive you don't get to experience any of that

So suddenly low curb weight, drivetrain characteristics, throttle response, steering/brake/shifter feel are "shitposting defense metrics"?
Are you going to start posting magazine lap times and quarter mile numbers next?

You're right, for the majority of drivers the 86 is a terrible choice. Most people want more power down low, and a lot of people like the extra doors that come with most other cars in the price range. Just because the 86 is a niche car doesn't make it bad, and it doesn't mean it's not a lot of fun right out of the box.
>you don't get to experience any of that and all you are left with is a car with a boring interior and an uninspiring at low speeds engine for the price of every other fun car.
If you are really on the fence you can just rent one or see if a 86 owner will let you drive theirs. Are you really complaining about interior for a 25k sports car? Obviously it's no GTI inside, but it's a much better car to drive. It just depends on what your priorities are.

>Instant torque on press of the pedal. The tiny turbo spools up instantly (How I know you haven't driven one and are just shit posting to justify your purchase at this point) and gives a nice shove.
I've driven the WRX also, you're right turbo lag isnt terrible, but are you honestly telling me that it's as responsive as a NA engine? Please don't kid yourself. The power is nice down low, but the car quickly falls on its face, partially due to the drivetrain loss of it being AWD. I do not enjoy AWD, I would much rather have a proper FWD or RWD car.

You can expect a very simple car. Its primary advantage is how light it is and being RWD. Aside from that don't expect to be blown away by the interior, its pretty cheap and will vibrate at high speeds. Speaking of high speed, this thing isn't really fast in a straight, nor is it quiet, the road noise is pretty ass. Couple that with an awful stereo system that will resonate if you turn it up a little too much or play anything with bass its not that great at all.

>I've driven the WRX also, you're right turbo lag isnt terrible, but are you honestly telling me that it's as responsive as a NA engine?
Yea it might as well be, the torque comes in at 2k rpm its extremely responsive for a turbo

I'm thinking that since I don't use the rear seats very often that I should just get my old 90s subwoofer from radio shack and leave it in the rear seats. I'm currently blasting Nordbeat on my home system and it's making me feel like I should be that asshole come summer time with a thumping system, but 90s ghetto style.

>Are you really complaining about interior for a 25k sports car?
It really should be better, I mean the civic Si has a better interior, the WRX also has a better interior and idk why they cheaped out on the interior so bad when they really don't have to

The BRZ limited is about right for what the car is. Otherwise you'd be paying for interior in a car where the entire idea is driving dynamics on the cheap.

Except its not cheap thats the problem for someone who doesn't care about the drive train they'll see things like a WRX, a civic si or even a 370z and value those cars more because they have much more going for them

For the price of the BRZ you basically get two advantages
>relatively light
>rwd
Thats really it, the list of disadvantages vs other cars is surmounting and its no wonder that the BRZ, 86 and FRS haven't sold many at all compared to other sports cars of similar price.

Disappointment.

and the reason I say relatively is because the weight impact is minimal vs other cars, the civic si is only like 80 pounds heavier, the WRX at 3200lbs is 500 pounds heavier but because the WRX has wider tires and has the AWD to bat, the actual handing is much improved. The same with the 370z its about 3200 pounds but boasts significantly more power and thicker better tires too.

Yup. There's pretty much not much reason to like it unless those particular selling points tickle your prostate, and even then you hate it because it should be better. It's a total used market car.

Source and or explanation.

Or do you think heat soak doesn't happen to the sti and are just retarded?

You gotta be honest. That manga is pretty unrealistic in its presentation of the 86

>Except its not cheap thats the problem for someone who doesn't care about the drive train they'll see things like a WRX, a civic si or even a 370z and value those cars more because they have much more going for them
The 370z has a shit interior too m8. It's also 29k for a base model without the LSD. BRZ is 4k less. The Civic has one of the best interiors in it's class, if I remember right, Honda was actually losing money with their new civic at first. But the Civic Si is still just a tarted up econobox.

Not that guy, but I had mine for about 13 months and ended up the same way when I sold it. I kept mine stock during the time that I had it, but he’s not wrong that you just constantly want more out of the car. Personally I feel like there are clear cut issues with the car, and it’s up to each person to decide whether they’re deal breaking or not. It just so happened that there were a pretty big deal for me.

>Thats really it, the list of disadvantages vs other cars is surmounting and its no wonder that the BRZ, 86 and FRS haven't sold many at all compared to other sports cars of similar price.
There are easily over 100,000 86s on the road, it's not like the car was a sales failure.

Do you have production numbers for other sports cars in the same price range? Until I see some numbers I am skeptical of your claim.

>There are easily over 100,000 86s on the road,
carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/scion/scion-fr-s/

Not really, this is assuming that they're all still on the road and aren't either sitting in a used sales lot or have been destroyed

What cars for 25k new would you consider perfect out of the box?

All cars in that price range have compromises. Like I keep saying, it really depends on what your priorities are.

and remember thats 3 makers, toyota, scion, and Subaru. Sure you could lump scion in with toyota but they're still sold as different cars

> Where do you live?
The US, with three Subie dealers and one Toyota dealer nearby. You?

>Are you going to start posting magazine lap times and quarter mile numbers next?
No, and that's not even my point. The people buying new cars don't give a shit about some metrics in a magazine, or how some reviewer says how lightweight it is. They care about how much fun it can is. And the BRZ isn't that fun when you take it out on the standard test drive.

> If you are really on the fence you can just rent one
This isn't something most people buying new cars do, although I agree it's probably a better way to get the full experience of a car beforehand.

>Are you really complaining about interior for a 25k sports car?
When it's comparables are much butter inside it's not hard to see why people fault it's interior. Again, I'm merely proving a viewpoint on why people who buy new cars aren't fawning over the BRZ.

>I've driven the WRX also, you're right turbo lag isnt terrible, but are you honestly telling me that it's as responsive as a NA engine?
There are good NA engines, and then there is what is in the BRZ. The instant torque and response of the twin scroll turbo on the WRX is miles ahead of the power you get out of the BRZ. One you get power damn near right away, the other you need to rev it up all the way to get a semblance of power.

> I do not enjoy AWD, I would much rather have a proper FWD or RWD car.
Congrats, but this isn't the status quo and most people fawn over AWD.

You seem to think I am attacking the BRZ on a personal level, which I'm not. I think the formula on the BRZ used to work really well, but it's not what todays buyers are looking for. When it becomes cheap enough to sell to those looking for that formula is when it becomes a winner.

Which is why they should delete to torque dip. That's like the first thing you notice on a meh standard test drive unless it's downhill the whole way.

Are these numbers accounting for global sales and BRZ sales?

Disappointment.

that was just for the FRS global sales

>The US, with three Subie dealers and one Toyota dealer nearby. You?
In the US. Are you seriously telling me you can't get a BRZ for MSRP ($25,XXX)???
that's pretty pathetic.

>This isn't something most people buying new cars do, although I agree it's probably a better way to get the full experience of a car beforehand.
Most people want a self driving car, what's your point? This is a niche car.

>Congrats, but this isn't the status quo and most people fawn over AWD.
Why do you keep bringing up normies? The 86 was not made for them.

>. I think the formula on the BRZ used to work really well, but it's not what todays buyers are looking for.
You're right, the majority of drivers nowadays want hybrid CUVs. That's why affordable sports coupes are all but extinct.

don't let the fanboy cuckolds fool you OP, it is slower and inferior to the miata

Realistically, nothing is going to be perfect. That’s just how life is. However Companies can strive to make things as close to that or as well rounded as possible. One thing my 86 experience helped me realize is that it’s easier and cheaper to take a car that’s faster from the factory and modify it’s suspension components to make a better overall car than it is to take a one with a better chassis/suspension and modify its power for the same end result. I could spend $2000-$2500 and make a sub-par chassis/suspension great, as opposed to $5000+ for things like forced induction to increase power.
Another thing I learned is that weight alone isn’t everything. It’s about power to weight ratio and weight distribution. Those two things along with what I mentioned earlier about modification were important factors for me, and it’s also where the 86 didn’t hold up as well to it’s competition.

>In the US. Are you seriously telling me you can't get a BRZ for MSRP ($25,XXX)???
>that's pretty pathetic.
You can't

autotrader.com/Subaru/BRZ/2017

The dealership buys BRZ's for 24300 and thats before tax on that shit. They won't sell you a car for less than what they bought it for so you'd be pressed to get one for 25k flat before taxes, fees and shit

A really fun to drive car with an engine that is as underpowered as its handling is overpowered. t. 2017 86 owner.

If I were going to do a miat, it would probably be one of the tiny little old ones. If you're going to cross seats and trunk off your list of needs then why not go all out and start to price in maintenance, an LSD, and maybe even an LS swap?

>Are you seriously telling me you can't get a BRZ for MSRP ($25,XXX)???
that's pretty pathetic.
The only ones available around here are the optioned up ones and neither of the dealers are known to discount so yeah, it's pretty damn hard to find a base model one for that price. Pathetic? Well that's not really my problem.

>Most people want a self driving car, what's your point?
My point, if it can get past your autism, is to answer the question as to why the BRZ isn't as popular as you wish it to be and as to why people are buying other cars over it. It's a hard concept I know.

Why do you keep bringing up normies? The 86 was not made for them.
> Except yes, it was. But keep on telling yourself that Subaru and Toyota made a car specifically for autists if it makes you feel better.

Triggered homofag detected.

4 seat and a roof though

>One thing my 86 experience helped me realize is that it’s easier and cheaper to take a car that’s faster from the factory and modify it’s suspension components to make a better overall car than it is to take a one with a better chassis/suspension and modify its power for the same end result.
Sure I get that. Yes you can improve the suspension on bigger cars, but you cannot make a bigger car feel smaller like a Miata or 86. A Mustang can have an Excellent suspension, but will always be limited by it's size

I wanted a small car so that's why I didn't go with a genesis, Camaro, mustang or g37

look at them sperg, they are having a total meltdown

You sip /sips/ I sip vodka and blast Nordbeat - The Trance Comes Over You! - 09 - That Sax! (Groove Power).flac

You will cook the turbo and it will overheat. Cross and rally are fine because the engine isn't flat out constantly. I'm not going to google stories for you, is just what I've seen.

Stock brakes also aren't really sufficient for track sessions on the WRX vs the STI.

For what it's worth, I love the old WRX and would love to buy one that hadn't been hooned. Subaru has kind of lost the spirit of the WRX lately. The lowered it which hurts rally implications and they don't offer it in the hatch. They even slapped a fucking CVT option on it. Yes automatic WRX drivers are scum but at least use a dual clutch.

Ground clearance in the WRX really was part of the dream. You could embarrass moon rovers going sideways at WOT and full lock in those things.

Sitting in or below the roll center of the wheels is a patrician feel. Last time I was behind a Mustang I was thrown off by how I could see underneath and out the front of it.

I’ll give you that. Actual size wasn’t that important to me as long as the car “felt” good when I drove it. I actually did end up going with a ‘10 Mustang GT and after the Mods to the suspension (I did some power mods too) it actually handles better than my ‘13 frs did. When I sold the frs in 2015 I had enough left over to buy my mustang, get a CAI (which actually brings in cold air. Some people get useless ones), full exhaust setup(long tube headers, mid pipe, and a good sounding end), and tune while having about $1100 left over for me. Then after having the car for two years I thought “ya know what, I wanna turn better” and spent just under $2000 to mod my suspension. Around then i also got good drilled/slotted rotors and tires for about $770. After all that the car felt “complete” to me for less than I would’ve spent making the frs feel the same way.

I’ll definitely agree there. They made it better in the ‘15+ models but mom sat up damned near like an suv until I lowered it.

I just still love the thrill and maneuverability of a small car. It reminds me of my first 80s-era tin can except this time it can do some gymnastics and outpace traffic slightly.

Judging by how you couldn't even get the engine code right (F20AT) I'm going to assume you're just benchracing