How do they get away with a $30k price tag?

Max I've seen at dealer was 36k usd on touring model. Not sure what anons on about.

I believe you with pickups. Crew cab demand is rediculous in the south right now though. They have gone for more in the past though.

jesus christ

Faster than a hundred grand Tesla.

Or slightly more expensive Miata

I would get a V6 camaro and save myself some money-and lap time

nice buyers remorse cuckold

They don't, nobody buys them

People will buy them and sell them used for 20k. Which is when you should pounce on them.

>install header + tune for less than 1500$
>still cheaper than Miata
>win

>Buyers remorse
>better car
pick one spergefag.
Those laps were set by different drivers, Those laps by the same driver.

Nerds and numales will pay TOP DOLLAR to experience nostalgia of an era they never lived in, user. Reason being as these people believe living the "nostalgia" gives them intellectual points which they can cash in at vape meets and on forums.

>5.8s 0-60
My 2008 Nissan Versa hatchback does it in like 4

El em ay oh no it does not

>cars are just too digital these days, I want a car that is analog like the old cars I saw on my chinese car-toons
>why did you spend $40k on a really fast car that is objectively better? I saved $10k by buying this brand new car and then spent that money on a few simple mods and it's still worse, but it's better because it feels real unlike your car
>turbos are for ricers. real drivers stick to NA. i have an NA car therefore I am a real driver. you can't argue about this.
>yeah but it JUST WORKS!
>i know it might seem like a lot for a car with 200hp but that's more than enough on today's roads. yeah but when you overtake me on the track or rape me on the road I will still be driving a car that feels better, so I win!

>How do they get away with a $30k price tag?
user, I...

It does after I removed all the seats

Just because you spend 40k on a performance car doesn't mean you are capable of driving it like the paid professionals sweetie. :)

Enjoy your benchracing career

said the MUH DRIVING FEELS owner lmao

>4 second 0-60 in a versa

>Not caring about things like seating position, visibility, brake feel, steering response, shifter feel, or drivetrain characteristics

Yep, benchracer status confirmed

isnt it 25k? seems pretty alright to me
in like 5 years there will be 10-15k ones around but unmolested ones will be hard to find considering most people who drive them

Nice list of buzzwords

What new RWD light weight sports car can you even buy at that price range?

No, it doesnt

He's talking moosebucks.

Focus RS is around 60k here before markups

Lightweight? Doesn't matter when the Mustang and Camaro get sub 5 second 0-60 times at the same price as the BRZ invoice price.

In Tennessee these can be had for under $20k brand new

>Lightweight? Doesn't matter

Don't you have a bus to catch?

>brz
>better than a civic si

Pick two.

Not him the brz isn't even that light. It's not enough to matter when you can brute force performance in many other ways. This is how the heavier cars can be better faster stronger without considering weight as a bottleneck. Meanwhile the brz is only 100 pounds lighter and every loser on here pretends like it's the next generation and it's so amazing when it'd really not

no

The brz could totally be a $24k car that weighs 2500lbs fucking easy but they won't because it no maker wants to take risks today

>Not him the brz isn't even that light.
It's almost 850lbs lighter than the mustang you mentioned. And a good amount smaller too.

Low demand low volume, you damn poorfag.

>not him

It's only 100lbs lighter than a civic si and only 500lbs lighter than it's cousin the wrx which comes in at about the same price point but it comes with so much more than a weight advertisement. Even the 370z bolsters a naturally aspirated engine and offers superior performance for only 2k more (3k iirc for the lsd version) there is little going for this car in its current configuration and it needs to offer more in order to make it worth the price they're asking. No wonder these things don't sell

>It's better because it's bigger and has more power
So an E Class is better than a 86 then. OK. I'll take the Miata.

>It's only 100lbs lighter than a civic si and only 500lbs lighter than it's cousin the wrx which comes in at about the same price point but it comes with so much more than a weight advertisement. Even the 370z bolsters a naturally aspirated engine and offers superior performance for only 2k more (3k iirc for the lsd version) there is little going for this car in its current configuration and it needs to offer more in order to make it worth the price they're asking. No wonder these things don't sell
The Civic is a fwd econobox platform, it should weigh less than the 86.

The WRX is a AWD, turbocharged sedan. It's a completely different driving experience. Like comparing apples to oranges.

The base BRZ is 25k. You can't buy a 370z with LSD for 28k new, sorry.

>The Civic is a fwd econobox platform, it should weigh less than the 86.
What the fuck does its platform have to do with anything? It's completely nonsequitor. The same goes for it'd weight. Just because it is a performance variant of an economy car doesn't magically mean it should automatically weigh less than some other completely different branded car because of your arbitrary reasons. This isn't an argument at all its a nonstatement that attempts to make a distinction without a difference

>the brz is 25k
No the invoice is 25.5k you aren't going to buy a brz for less than 26k anywhere brand new. The 370z is 28k and iirc the lsd version is only 29-30 so they're in the same neighborhood of price but one is miles ahead in performance. You're trying to call a difference in driving experiences by only being able to reference the brz drive train and weight which again are its only primary advantages and it has nothing else going for it beyond opinionated nuance that isn't quantified in any real way. For a car that's advertised around the theme of performance driving it is really lack luster and more of a cheesy throwback to an Era where some Japanese guy made a video driving up and down a mountain in Japan.

My bad the new 370z is coming in at 33k for the lsd version which has few other bells and whistles including the 19" wheels.

Even still buying a 26k brz only to mod it is stupid as fuck. Not only are you going to void your warranty but now you have a car that's still slower than the competition and as expensive. Not everyone had the ability to mod themselves and even then if you pay so eine they're going to get labor on you. If that's the case you're probably already blowing way beyond what other cars cost brand new stock and you still aren't touching their performance

And it seems the invoice on the 370z lsd is 32k flat so you probably aren't going to buy one for less than 32.5k if you're lucky

Tires and brakepads go a long way, inb4 Muh 0-60. You want a faster car get a WRX

>What the fuck does its platform have to do with anything? It's completely nonsequitor. The same goes for it'd weight. Just because it is a performance variant of an economy car doesn't magically mean it should automatically weigh less than some other completely different branded car because of your arbitrary reasons. This isn't an argument at all its a nonstatement that attempts to make a distinction without a difference
So you're saying an AWD platform doesn't usually weigh more than a similar sized fwd platform? Why are you acting like drivetrain types don't directly influence driving characteristics and overall weight?

>you aren't going to buy a brz for less than 26k anywhere brand new
This is false. People are getting great deals right now, especially on the 86.

>My bad the new 370z is coming in at 33k for the lsd version which has few other bells and whistles including the 19" wheels
So 5k less. Thanks

>Even still buying a 26k brz only to mod it is stupid as fuck. Not only are you going to void your warranty but now you have a car that's still slower than the competition and as expensive.
If I wanted a fast car I wouldn't have bought a BRZ in the first place. I wanted an affordable lightweight RWD coupe. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

This is why the brz/frs/gt86 hasn't actually sold that much. In general, people are looking for high performance cars if what they're looking for is a performance oriented vehicle. This is where they're buying the mustangs and camaros and similar cars but they aren't buying a brz because the brz doesn't bring that to the table

>So 5k less. Thanks
Scratch that, 7k less. Proves my point even more ;)

>This is why the brz/frs/gt86 hasn't actually sold that much
The 86 on a whole has sold pretty well considering it's a dedicated sports car platform. Obviously it won't sell as well as a pony car or economy car.

Mustang is better deal over 370z, 86 is alot cheaper and it's own sort of deal

I'd much rather have a v6 Camaro over the 370z

Post 2000 Nissan a shit

>This is why the brz/frs/gt86 hasn't actually sold that much.

They are at production limits, not sales restricted. It sells very well outside the third world.

The BRZ is for people who want a Miata, but also want more convenience of a daily driver.

Wait, are Miatas slower than minivans? That's the key question here.

Only the automatic ones, I'm guessing you can't into manual

An automatic Miata RF takes 7 seconds to get to 60mph, so yeah, it's probably slower than a minivan

What fucking gearbox do they have in there thats so painfully slow?

Weight alone isn't the important figure. What's important is the power to weight ratio. The BRZ is pathetic in that category, and it's also why the Mustang does so much better than it.

Are Mustangs slower than minivans, too?

>weight alone isn't the important figure
t. Mustang owner

pls be true

Unless you did an LS swap and some crazy mods, there's no way that's even remotely possible. You'd basically have to gut the entire car, not just seats, swap in a huge engine that won't even fit in the car's engine bay, swap transmissions that won't fit, and also make it either RWD or AWD.

So no, your Versa with hacked out seats absolutely does not do 4 second 0-60 runs.

>200 to 205 hp
Why is there a 5 hp variance?

Lol Versa guy easilly baiting these dumbasses

The 2017 version has a minor adjustment. There's a new intake runner and probably some ECU programming differences or whatever.

I'm sure if you stripped a minivan down, swapped an LS and good trans into it, you'd be able to beat a Mustang. Where there's a will and an open wallet there's a way.

>Weight alone isn't the important figure
No one is claiming that. Go buy a dodge challenger and kys

The revised engines have 5 extra hours due to changes in the intake manifold, air intake and other little pieces. You can only get the revised engines in the manual version though. IIRC, Europe doesn't get the revised engine at all.

And somehow the torque dip got wider

Truly a feat of engineering.

There's some new engine internals as well. It is worth getting the newer motor, it is more robust.

Depends on what your goals are. The aftermarket for the revised 86 will never be as vast as the Kouki version

BRZ power:weight - 13.65:1
Mustang Ecoboost power:weight - 11.61:1

This is what I'm pointing at. they have the exact same msrp, yet you're getting a much more rounded sports car in the Mustang. The Mustangs are definitely beating them on the streets, but they're also beating tracks as well. The "lol can't turn" stigma of the Mustang is long gone by now; Ford really stepped their game up in that category.

fastestlaps.com/models/ford-mustang-ecoboost
fastestlaps.com/models/subaru-brz

found the weeb

That’s some nice shitposting there, boys.

From those ratios you posted, isn't the BRZ superior? It has a higher power number in relation to the weight ratio, meaning it produces more power per weight right?

Or am I just being potato right now?

Ecobewst overheats and likes to puke coolant

Wait a minute, we're not even talking about a real Mustang? What's even the point of this comparison?

Comparing 4 cylinder performance coupes. Seems like a fair comparison.

Comparing a 5.0L V8 with a little Japanese 4 cylinder wouldn't make any sense.

his argument was that the 4cyl Ecoboost mustang costs just as much and is better than the BRZ
Of course an 8cyl Mustang will beat a BRZ because its double the power and double the price

Yeah but who the fuck would be like
>well maybe I should get the not-a-real Musting instead
>

>This is what I'm pointing at. they have the exact same msrp, yet you're getting a much more rounded sports car in the Mustang.
Ecoboost with performance package is 2500 more than a BRZ.

Why are you posting lap times? No one in this entire thread has claimed the 86 is fast, yet you are going out of your way to point out the obvious. If you want a car that posts faster laptimes, you should never buy the 86 in the first place.

The mustang has turbolag, weighs 850lbs more, and is huge compared to an 86. Why can't you understand why some people would prefer a smaller, lighter, more responsive car?

You can walk into a car dealership, get the newest truck for 55k, and pay 300 dollars a month.
Who has 55k sitting around? Not many people.
Who can pay 300 dollars a month? Just about everyone.

Reminder that inflation is a thing. The BRZ costs the same as an AE86 did in 85 with inflation accounted for.

AE86 is a fucking corolla.

In this case the lower the number, the better. This ratio is expressing the amount of pounds per one horsepower.

So you're saying that the BRZ costs as much as a Corolla did yet offers better performance and quality in every measure? Sounds like a good deal for the price. $25k-30k is bare minimum for a sports car now.

I used the Ecoboost because of price point and engine. I could've also chose the V6 Mustang that recently stopped production; that beat out the BRZ while being ever so slightly cheaper.

I'm posting lap times because track performance is supposed to be the BRZ's niche. People laud the BRZ as nimble, and yet it's really far down on that competitive list, especially in it's price range. For the exact same price you get a "larger, heavier, less responsive car" that outright beats the BRZ in the areas that it allegedly excels in.

Those cars have alot more power and barely inch out a laptime over the 86. Depending on tracks pigfat power will win

Yeah, but if you're wanting a 4 cylinder $25k new car to run up the touge on the weekends the forced induction Mustang Ecoboost is better suited to higher altitude than the NA 86.

It's not, tight narrow roads with a heavy mustang isn't going to do better on ""touge"" over an 86 or miata. You can keep your track times but you won't win on tight backroads

Forced induction does better at higher altitude, that's a fact. I'm not talking about handling around a corner, I'm talking about how the vehicle performs mechanically.

We were talking about performance on wide open tracks then you bring up touge. You're also not taking into consideration the extra heat the ecoboost absorbs. I don't see how any of that is in your favor