Why would God created us knowing we would sin? Can't he predict the future?

Don't blame God for being gay, you Mindless shithead.. You have free will. It's Your Fault that you're a WEAK AND GIRLY.

We are our own devil. Our actions are the general consensus on whether or not we spend eternity in Sheol, or Heaven (Plan Ha-Ba, The World to Come), one might believe that there is a ruling power in this hell-like area, however to deny that it was G-d who put Them in charge is ignorance.

>It's Your Fault that you're a WEAK AND GIRLY.

isnt he "created in gods image"?

Stop crying. There's no god. He hid not create us. He did not give us gay impulse.

You can't be created by something that doesn't exist :&)

truth

Because God doesn't exist.

MattyB best youtuber

Because the benefits outweighed the costs.

Stop being a cost, and start being a benefit.

>Thinking about God in Human Standards

>the bible literally does this exact thing

Because our so-called sin- exactly where, when, and in the amount we commit it- delights him more than anything else could.
This follows naturally from His omnipotence.

>Almost as though we were created in God's image.

There have been (very) roughly 115 billion human beings that have ever existed. The vast majority of them have never heard of Christianity, or if they have, they lived in a place hostile to Christianity.

Why did God give free will to a hypothetical pacific Islander girl that lived 400 years ago, and lived the whole of her life without knowing about Christianity, if she couldn't become a Christian?

Read Boëthius- The Consolation of Philosophy, book 5

I wouldn't be able to do that in lifespan of this thread, so it would be nice if you wrote the argument yourself.

All I could find was that Boethius tried to solve the issue through claiming that god is timeless and sees world as 4D pic.

I had a look and saw nothing to answer the question.
He appeals to that "God has made us free, to do good or evil as we will". But what, ultimately, determines what we will? Our own choice? What is the determinant of that? Or is there none but randomness, our wills the result of a dice-roll?
And I cannot see why anything in the world God, the master optimizer, chooses of all the possibilities can be called truly, rather than, merely to our perspective, evil or imperfect.
Moreover, even if we blasphemously reject God's omnipotence and treat him as a lacking-in-power deity, it's clear to all human reason that he is either impotent or mostly disinterested in helping us achieve salvation.

>it's a someone who doesn't know anything about the bible makes assumptions about the bible episode

just once i wish you fags would do some preliminary research before sharing your dumb uninformed opinions

Itsjust theology senpai, a totally useless subject that only serves to entertain by throught-games

we can be as dumb and uninformed as we want, its just harmless fun

If you are already assuming the existence of an omnipotent deity, remember that omnipotence necessarily requires that deity to know exactly what it feels like to be you, with all of your problems and pains.
Why would an entity cause unnecessary suffering when he knows that he would have to experience himself?

>experience himself
it himself*

I meant to say omniscient also instead of omnipotent.
Fuck it, I'm going to bed.

There is no god, there never was a god, and there never will be a god.

t. totally not god

>god knows everything
>therefore god knows everything that happened, everything that is happening and everything that will happen

>god creates us
>god says he gave us free will
>but at the moment of the creation god already knows that we will sin
>god willingly creates beings that he knows will sin and then punishes them for ir anyway

Point being either
A) God doesn't know everything
B) Free will doesn't exist and god is cruel

free will exists and so does sin?

People choose to sin

Sin is basic misdeed causes a bad reaction for the self or someone else

about 1/10 of that

>he is either impotent or mostly disinterested in helping us achieve salvation.

What an absurd and unfounded assertion.

>Why doesn't God totally overwhelm me and force me to love him???

Gonna be titchy.

You're talking about transgressions, breaking the law, and iniquity, doing wicked things.

Sin is "missing the mark", as in an archer trying to hit a target and missing it completely.

In this context, the mark is "be perfect, as the father in heaven is perfect" and we all have missed that mark. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Some of us realize that there is a cure for that.

Most of us do not.

And the cure covers transgressions and iniquities as well as sin.

sin isn't an action and no one chooses to sin

He is either and evil son of a bitch who want to fuck with us or isn't omnipotent but claims to be

Sin is the cause, bad karma is the effect. If you do something you known is bad, or something you know is not good, or something you know is the right thing to do but fail to do it, that is sin

People choose to sin, people choose to ignore sin. Sin is bad action that you know is sin

OR maybe he let's people do wrong so they can learn right. God is omnipotent and all that, so he knows when you do wrongness and he knows you have the ability to change your reality by consciously putting that into effect, know that you can change your reality with God rather than be predestined to fall

God created adam knowing full well that by creating him in such a manner he would fuck up and be punished. Free will cannot co-exist with omnipotence

Yes it can. You might not think son but that's just your perception. You have to use your free will with God, who shows you the paths

>God has the ability to create a perfect race of humans that have free will and still make the right calls and reach salvation
>decides to say fuck it, I'm gonna create them in a manner that causes most to fuck up and need to be tortured for eternity
Almost seems like a poorly thought out fairy-tale

Lol I guess God couldn't be bothered with those people

No, it can't. He just showed you. Either you don't have free will, god isn't all powerful or god isn't all knowing.

God can do anything that's why we call Him God.
God can be all power full and give us free will and we work to gether to get the job done,

gobacktothefarms senpai

people don't choose to sin. sin is in the human nature

Unfounded?
I daresay almost all of the billions that you have damned could have been saved had they been properly educated in the faith, shown its truth and reminded of the importance of following the proper path. But they have not been so guided.
If a powerful God wished to establish a church for the salvation of all mankind, firstly it would 1) be universal, found in a usable state in every society at all periods; 2) indisputable- not open to schism or challenge by any but the most deliberately wicked, who would be clearly recognizable as such- not needing to be disproven with dozens of books by scholars; and 3) clear- with all moral needs and the validities and natures of all sacraments readily displayed, not invisible and needing doctors to explicate millennia late.
Now, you admit that there are those, even unbelievers, whom God has guided to salvation with miracles. But these are a minority of the desperate masses. If Mary loves us, why does she appear so sparsely and speak so cryptically? No mother or father would tolerate their poor children to ever enter a whorehouse. Indeed, Catholic morality condemns as mortally sinful the parent who does so! And it is right to do so, since such behavior is clearly detrimental (in general, ceteris paribus, as we speak, &c.) and neglectful. And yet our supposed heavenly Father and Mother, our supposed exemplars of virtue and goodness, not only see such a horrid thing millions of times and fail to intervene, but entirely anticipated and enabled it. God is the accomplice, and by all reasonable parlance an actor, of every sin and depraved act in history.
You may say that God's priorities are good and that he is mighty. But you cannot say in any non-defiled sense that the salvation of mankind is high on his desires.

But all this theorizing is assuming a blasphemous proposition, for IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO CONCEIVE THAT THE TRUE GOD'S WILL COULD EVER BE CONTRADICTED IN ANY WAY OR MET WITH ANYTHING BUT PERFECTION.

Because life is a training program for AIs to see if they will exercise self control and proper conduct to each other.

God is not real. Get over it.

>God knows all
>God can create Adam in any way he pleases
>God knows that if he creates Adam in a certain way he will fuck up
>Then god proceeds to create Adam in that way
>Then Adam inevitably fucks up, which God knew he would do
>Then God gets mad that Adam fucked up and yells at him
>Then God tortures Adam for fucking up
>God knows all of this at the point he created Adam
>God creates Adam knowing he will eventually torture Adam

The Question is why did god create Adam in such a way that Adam would fuck up?

Is he just a dick?

Is he lying about being Omnipotent?

Or is the whole god thing just bullshit?

God is a tragic poet.

More like God is a kid with a magnifying glass burning ants out of boredom

Why not?

Why not ask what God does for us. Adam is cool but like, what about us now, in the present

The exact same argument applies to all of humanity, Adam is just a recognizable example.

Cause were all created like Adam

God knew everything that would ever happen to ever human ever before he even created Adam, so in that respect yes

So if God know everything that can happen to us, sees something is not so good, He can come to us somehow and help us change the outcome of something not so good, we just have to apply ourselves

These are the best arguments against the "we sin because we have freewill" idea. God could've easily created us with freewill and without a desire to sin, just like how most people don't have the desire to eat shit or poke themselves in the idea. Why did God create us with a incredibly powerful desire to fuck people out of marriage when that's a sin? Or to be stubbornly rational and refuse to believe in something irrational if that damns us to Hell? Or love getting drunk when drunkenness is a sin?

It sound like I think it's easy but we all have difficulties I know it sounds "typed" but idk it's hard sometime

Exactly God is either very inefficient and doesn't know how to create people with freewill who won't sin or is malevolent to some degree.

Christian will argue that God loves all of man unconditionally but he still created sin, and made man in such a way that he would sin, and then punishes them for sinning.

Christians then pull the "well we can't hope to understand god" or the "u just need 2 believe" argument because their argument is logically inconsistent.

Gods didn't create people.

People created gods...

To send us ti hell

for the money

I literally screamed like a little girl, thanks faggot

I didn't choose to be gay. I still didn't want it.

Why can't I choose to be straight?

Because he wanted us to sin

People choose to sin.

Christians also forget to mention that people choose to sin but do you want to be spoon-fed what you have to learn on your own?

You can understand God, don't believe outside of your own reason you'll figure it out eventually it'll take time but stop falling for others Bs and don't let the stereotypes hold you back

>why would God do X
Put simply, we don't know why God does anything. It takes an extremely arrogant type of person to think you can question an omniscient, omnipotent being.

Why can I play with knives, even when my parents forbid me doing it?

>free will exists
>god is omniscient

Pick one and only one.

>be born with autism/schizophrenia/etc
>master of your own ship
>implying this is not a meme
>implying you're not a meme

We can understand why God stuffs, I don't know where this idea came from that we can get a basic idea of why God does things.

Also, nothing s wrong with asking God questions. You could ask honestly with genuine curiosity, you could also ask arrogantly

Both

>tfw losing best friend of 18 years to schizophrenia

He aint even the same man anymore

>People choose to sin
Because god created sin and then created people who would inevitably sin
He could have created a sin free world or a race of people with both free will and no sin
God is an asshole

Because Christfags cannot accept that free will and omnipotence logically cannot exist at the same time. If you call them out on it you can watch them put on a performance worth of an Olympic god in mental gymnastics.

Sin is a misdeed. Man makes misdeeds. God gave us free will to choose, that is why we can do good things and bad things.

Yes they can. God gives us the ability to choose what we want to do, good or bad. He is all knowing; so if He sees bad, He will tell us before hand, so we can make adjustments or; after we do bad, we watch how our own choice of actions effects us negatively, in which we control our own karma.

You could call it mental gymnastics, or you could apply what I just wrote to your highly valued logic

God could have created humans with both free will and no sin.
The fact that he didn't means he wants humans to suffer.

He did make humans with free will, and babies are not sinners, but will be inclined to sin and learn how life works like everyone else has. All of us have a pure stage, and then when we are young we get a "slap on the wrist" by our parent/guardian, and when we are older we start to see that when we act out of greed it hurts people, and when we give up the struggle to gain the world we start to give in more positive intentions

What makes you think God wants anyone to suffer? He wants us to learn for ourselves how to overcome this opposition so we can no longer suffer

Again you wont address the problem with your argument. God created humans in such a way that they would sin. He could have created humans that would not sin. So why did he decide to create a race of sinners instead of a race that would not sin.

The fact that he created everything mean he also created sin

There isn't a problem though, or an argument, God created human, humans sinned by their own accord.

Even people who don't believe in God, the know there are consequences to their actions. Action is neutral, initially not good, not bad, however there are things we do that are good, like giving, complimenting, helping, and there are things wee do that are bad, like lying, cheating, hurting others.

We can choose what we do. Why doesn't God stop us? Free will. How does an all knowing God exist with humanities free will? He simply just does. When God knows you are going to do bad, when you are connected with Him, you'll see it in advance so you can adjust yourself to do good instead. Those who aren't connected with God are focused on other things instead of God, and they consciously choose to ignore God.

That isn't say "just believe man", but you have to learn about God with good intention, otherwise, you are choosing right now to ignore God to fool around and do something else, which you might still be doing good deeds, which is good, but when people sin, it is because they are focused in the wrong places.

>There isn't an argument

Well, at least you got this right. You only need to rephrase it as "I have no...", "there isn't an..." is bad grammar

>When God knows you are going to do bad, when you are connected with Him, you'll see it in advance so you can adjust yourself to do good instead. Those who aren't connected with God are focused on other things instead of God, and they consciously choose to ignore God.

Very good answer, however I think when saying "focused on other things than God" it is key to point out you should know a balance between reality, thought and not being overzealous.

Why would I want to argue with you though? I don't know you.

What I do know is that humanity has free will and God is omni-abunchofeverything

The key is to point out God is not separate from thought or reality.

Having such a clear and concise message to all mankind and proving that He exists, The Lord would have us fear rather than love Him. That is the reason that so many fall away, it is impossible, while allowing true freedom of choice, that all mankind will come to The Lord to be saved.

As for those billions, I do not know and do not know how anyone could know what is to become of those souls. But, I trust the decision of The Lord will be just.

These are not incompatible.

It was an example you retard

It's all horseshit. Don't think about it too hard.

ITT: Idiots think that it's possible to have free will while somehow being unable to sin. People like you are why civil liberties are eroded and eventually taken away.

You are wrong. Google some gay porn.

God does not tell you what he knows.

You cannot read God's mind.

Further, you are trapped in time, and God is not.

Both exist independently.

"Sin" = not being like God.

Here is the salvation God has provided:

1. Universal.
2. Indisputable.
3. Clear.
4. Pre-paid.
5. Eternal.

God's express will will not be violated.

Many evil things happen in God's permissive will. God's permissive will is necessary for you to exercise your free will.

Jesus is the author and finisher of everyone who is saved's salvation. He paid the price. He bought the pardons.

They're free for the asking. Simply confess with your mouth, that is to say out loud, that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead. (Rom. 10:9-10).

Universal. Indisputable. Clear. Pre-paid. Eternal.