Marriage

>phil posts on Veeky Forums now

interesting

Stop this meme

My parents didn't "work" for their marriages, nor did THEIR parents

That's garbage from couple's therapists to rake in shekels

It's impossible to negotiate your attractiveness to a woman or man once you've been analyzed. A woman who disobeys, orders, or emasculates her husband has already divorced him inside.

>marriage is like my Disney fantasy films, if it's not 100% effortless it's not worth keeping together

Look I grew up with an asshole father who constantly threw temper tantrums when arguing with my mother and I probably would have been way better off if they divorced, but people are divorcing these days for meme reasons wayyyy too much.

Yes, the western tradition of unarranged marriage is dead now that women have entered the work force and monopolized reproductive rights. There used to be an incentive for women to marry good lil beta males who would take care of them, but now they can fuck whoever they please without repercussions, because either A: They use birth control, or B it doesn't matter who knocks them up, because even if the father of the children can't provide for them they can still get upwards of $50k/year in entitlements.

I think the best system is arranged marriage, and I'm saying this as a guy who is happy in a two year long relationship. My reasoning is that if you marry for love you are basically letting your dick think for you. You might initially develop "feelings" for someone, but once the honeymoon phase wears off you will pretty quickly grow to resent them, because all the flaws in their character that you were painfully unaware of will become abundantly clear. However, if you family chooses your partner they are likely to choose someone who is a good person. And I think if two good people spend enough time with one another in close proximity they will inevitably fall in love. For example, if your family chooses your bride, they will choose a woman who is kind, dependable, loyal, smart, caring, etc. etc. etc.

If you're the one who gets to make the choose 99/100 times you're going to choose the person you want to fuck the most. In modern relationships that seems to be the primary consideration. After you get tired of fucking the person who you thought was so incredible, but you actually have very little in common with, and are driven crazy by their flaws you'll probably left with a bad taste in your mouth.

But yes, I think marriage is dead. The original purpose for marriage was to bind men and women together to raise kids. The payoff for men was they got to have sex, and women got resources. Promiscuous sex and government redistribution made this obsolete.

Odd

Now why would your mother stay with your "asshole" father for?

...hmm, what would keep a woman attracted to a nasty man?

Men need women and women need men, some kind of deal is always reached

Economics and old school Catholicism.

Watching them fight semi violently constantly over the most inconsequential shit and then watch them make up is why I can't take people who divorce because they "grew out of each other" but had an otherwise amicable marriage very seriously.

Why would you fucking stay with someone you argue with all the time? Jesus fuck lol. Especially "semi-violently constantly over the most inconsequential shit"

Sounds like a miserable way to spend your life.

I just explained it. Economics and religion.

So much this.

100 years ago if you fucked a girl, walked around with her in public, and then had the gall to ask her father for her hand in marriage he'd fucking shoot you and disown her. The tradition which once serious and respected is now a mere formality.

Parents would select from various suitors, introduce one or two to their daughter, and let her pick which she liked best. After deliberating between themselves and the suitor's family they'd reach a conclusion.

The idea of "dating" was bullshit invented in the 40's & 50's to sell crap. No girl circa 1905 would be caught DEAD just hanging around a young man she wasn't related to, let alone fucking him.

This notion of "teenagers" and "independence" and "rebellion" is media manufactured trash. Parents chose the spouse of their child because

1. They want what's best for their kid

2. They know their kid

3. They can make better long term choices than a youth brimming with sexual lust and an underdeveloped brain. I.E. "but dad she's so SEXY!" OR "but mom he's such a BAD BOY"

Marriage as a religious social processes isn't as popular,
but union-making is still going strong.

I can only see from experience,in a modern country where the man or women works to death doesn't see his/her kids and as a result searches in the wrong place of their soul, destroys what they once held to their heart.

About 80% of people get married in Scandanavia and this has been stable for decades. So no marriage isn't dead.

The point of marriage is to transfer wealth from men to women so it will never go away

Don't make me post it...

Post some thing claiming less than 80% of people get married

He's probably going to talk about cuck porn, open relationships and degeneracy or something,

No, they're marrying to easily. If you took time and really searched for someone you would want to spend the rest of your life with, you'd be much more likely to stay together. So yes the problem may be people not taking marraige serious enough, but i think its endemic of people not taking any commitments serious enough these days.

>amicable
That is precisely what you should not be settling for. If thats the best you have, of course you might leave in some fit of the moment.

Most people recognize that marriage the purpose of marriage is stupid. If we could keep young girls for romantisizing marriage so much i would be happy. They have no idea what a committment that is for a man and how vulernable it leaves him.

The jury has returned from the consensus is that human brains go through cycles. Oxytocin and seritonin get depleted after around 5-8 years of being with a person and all the "magic" wears off. If for some reason you still like this person after all of that then go ahead and marry them because that's probably the best you're going to get.

> Shifts in socioeconomics and culture in modernized countries have destroyed it.

The laws simply have to change if society expects men to continue getting married nowadays because as they stand now, there is no logical reason for a guy to get married.

A buddy is currently getting divorced from his psycho wife of 21 years with whom he has three kids and that’s something I wouldn’t wish upon anybody.

I'm going to make a controversial claim.

Traditional marriage died a slow death, beginning when marriage as a tool for producing alliances, social mobility, and heirs went away.

You want a return to traditional marriages? make it so that when parents die, instead of the stuff and money being divided relatively equally amoungst all the children (as is common today), make it so one child inherits most of the wealth.

Marriage has been fucked from the beginning because it goes against every bit of our biology. Males just like any other mammals are programmed to fuck and reproduce with as many suitable females as possible.

Likewise, females are programmed to find the strongest nearby male to fuck and reproduce with and take care of them.

A few thousand years of societal evolution doesn't change our basic drives.

Depends, can I kill my siblings so I can have that sweet, sweet dosh?

youtube.com/watch?v=HLrpb8Z--fs

Is that lassie with a beard?

You are the problem, marriage is not a monogamous long term relationship, that conception of marriage is what has been used to undermine the institution itself.

>Is there a problem with ending a relationship? >No.
>Well then why should there be a problem with ending a long term monogamous relationship?

>Is there a problem with a same-sex relationship?
>No
>Well then why should there be a problem with a long term monogamous *homosecual* relationship?

Marriage is no such thing. Marriage is an institution enforced by the first states and churches to ensure that one man would only have children with one woman. Marriage is about protecting the family unit not about tax deductions or a display of long term monogamous displays of affection.

I get where you guys are coming from and it's a fair argument, however there's one big flaw:
>Parents want what's best for their kid
Of course there's some truth to that, but it's also true that marrying off children, especially daughters, was/is often done as much for the gain of the parents than the child themselves. Giving your daughter to some asshole 30 years her senior who beats her and gives her a few kids before dying and leaving her destitute isn't great for the daughter, but it might suit you just fine if you're getting 3 goats, a pig and a new farm out of it. Likewise that girl who acts all sweet when she's trying to impress you could be a manipulative terror once she's out of your sight.

I agree that a parent's assessment of a potential partner will usually be better than that of their teenage child's, but if you give the child enough time to mature, really get to know the person and make their own decision before committing then they're much more likely to get a better outcome.

This is it, while it has little purpose from a social/economic perspective plenty of people still want to enter into a commitment. While some say it's meaningless in today's society I think if anything it's the opposite. In the past you had no choice but to get married, now if you make that commitment despite there always being alternatives, it becomes more meaningful imo.

Also people point to high divorce rates but I think a big reason they shot up from the 1960s to the 2000s is that the generation grew up in a time when everybody had to get married, when an unmarried couple living together was nigh unthinkable, so people who really should never have been married in the first place got married because there was no alternative. By the time they reached middle age, the barriers to divorce had disappeared so no surprise there was such a surge. Compare that to now, where it's considered unusual to marry someone you haven't lived with.

The inevitable economic and environmental collapse of the West will destroy the welfare state, thus restauring marriage.

(cont.)
So young people these days are starting to wise up and learn from their parents. I wouldn't be surprised if the divorce rate starts to decrease (of course it will never reach pre-1960 levels) somewhat. When people don't HAVE to get married, when they see the pain that results from a poor marriage choice, then they're more likely to marry someone they know they can trust and tolerate. Likewise, if having children is something that's optional rather than socially mandated couples are more likely to have kids only if the circumstances are suitable. There are enough people on the planet already, we don't need to encourage breeding for the sake of it, we're at a point where we would benefit greatly from more couples only having children they actually want to have.