Understeer happens to drivers, not cars

Why do fags here shill so hard for FWD shitboxes.

Yes, the driver is in control and he's responsible for keeping the car in line.

because not everyone wants or needs a RWD sports car. Most people aren't constantly tracking their cars, so drivetrain layout doesn't matter nearly as much

Lot of bang for your buck when you’re not buying a $50,000 car

So does the same sentence apply to oversteer?

Because not all of us are deluded into getting a car just to have the option of being able to drift

because FWD shitboxes are fun to beat the hell out of

Yeah, understeer is your fault for not knowing the limits of the car. But it's the car's fault for having such low limits, and FWD naturally has low limits.

On the other hand RWD is more dangerous because if you cross the limits, it's harder to correct, and the limits drop exponentially as traction goes down. Put the engine in the back to remedy this and all of a sudden not only does the car have hard to correct understeer, but savage oversteer that ranges from unexpectedly self (over)correcting to violent spins. Most race cars are rear mid-engined. Ever watched a race between MR cars? People who spin out just spin out. They don't drift through it.

What the hell is that? Some sort of VW/Audi FWDankstein monstrosity that only germans seem to enjoy engineering?

How many different threads are you going to mensruate about Audi in? Holy fucking autism vendetta. I'm tired of seeing your shitposts.

You know what it is because it's your own post. Quit samefagging all over the fucking board. It's embarrassing.

Because some people on Veeky Forums own fwd shitboxes and feel the need to justify their poor decision

>FWD is shit u cant even drift!!!!111111
>doesnt know how to drift anyway
lmao

>the only argument against fwd is muh dwift

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Argument denied!

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Is it faster to drive on the limit of grip and take the racing line using understeer,
or is it faster to drive under the limit of grip and take the racing line using grip?

Or is it faster to drive on the limit of grip, but be on the brake when you enter the corner, so you don't understeer?

its faster to drive grip unless the surface is really shit

Scandiflick.
Basically the first one.

It’s fastest to not be on the brake when corner entry and maintain a shallow oversteer at maximum of grip thru the turn.

>its faster to drive grip unless the surface is really shit
What does this even mean?
Driving with slicks in the rain, I just understeered the whole time, is that considered drift?

Yet there's a million video's of fwd's eating shit on the 'Ring and various other races.

if you're driving on gravel then its faster to go sideways

I disagree with all of you.

The third option is somewhat correct. If you trailbrake properly to the apex of a corner you have the most grip even if the car doesn't necessarily need to be trailbraked.

On the exit a tiny bit of oversteer is the fastest

There's literally no such thing as understeer if you know how to drive. You just turn the fuck wheel at the correct angle and the vehicle goes there. If it doesn't it means you've fucked with physics too hard and the car will roll OR the tires will literally start to skid/slide. The vehicle doesn't just fucking turn ITSELF out of a corner if you're actively turning into it.

Understeer is the product of cowardice and inexperience, nothing more.

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Yeah it's a little different than that in real life kid. It isn't like forza on difficult.

Yes, because only one person on this board is away of how retarded Audi is.

t. shitbrained Miata owner with cuck reflexes

there's this thing called inertia, maybe you've heard of it

t. Audi owner

learn to read

>car rolls
>tires skid/slide
>or, if all else doesn't happen, your steering linkages literally explode/shatter and the vehicle flies off in a random direction

But the car doesn't have the power to "unsteer" itself from a turn you're putting it into.

Fwd- brake hard and late. While the weight i.e. forward you steer. Once you have exited, you get one the power.

Rwd- apply more power and steer with throttle.

Awd - depends on setup.

It's also just as easy to get yourself into an incorrectable situation. With any drivetrain layout, not just FWD.

Yeah well the fact that FWD is prone to understeer by nature and the fact that you can't control the rear wheels makes most situations really bad.

Uh... understeer is the front tyres skidding. Literally that's what understeer is defined as. It does happen if your car sucks. Imo a race car should not understeer even with a retarded driver because understeering is never useful.

I always wondered why they never designed an FWD system like pic related.

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If you pick the wrong line and fuck up even a F1 or hillclimb car capable of 5g's in the corners will still understeer. Even the world's best drivers will still sometimes instinctively lock the brakes up while understeering which makes things a lot worse.

Understeer happens when the intertia of the vehicle is so great that it overwhelms the upper body strength of the soyboy furfag cunt in driving the Miata, allowing the wheels of the car to act backwards into the steering column. They turn the steering wheel in the cuck's hands and the vehicle begins to straighten out, resulting in a wide turn.

It has everything to do with faggots driving and nothing to do with skidding tires. If the tires are slipping, it's a skid/drift, not understeer.

Stop making excuses for your poor driving.

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No.

Its true that you can correct for understeer by slowing down. However good cars can turn at higher speeds without understeer.

> it is difficult on old air cooled VWs because the the rear weight bias is so extreme theres very little grip for the front tires
I found that out the hard way

Citroën did that in a lot of their old flagships, and Saab also did a similar thing with the first gen 900. They handled pretty damn well.
Audi meanwhile can't do that, as the engine would be in the way of sending power to the rear. Their biggest selling point (the "best" AWD system on the market) is also what ruins their cars.

>t. plays forzaturismo on difficult

I drive an RX-8, known to be a rather tail-happy car from the factory. I also have 245 up front and 225 in back for even more hektik skids. If I'm driving with correct technique on a known road, all of the liveliness comes from the back end at the limit of grip. Despite all of that, I am still able to induce understeer if I have the weight transferred to somewhere it really doesn't belong on turn in for an unfamiliar corner.

I'd say that driver has a lot to do with understeer/oversteer bias.

Generally, any unintended loss of traction can be blamed on driver skill (or lack of familiarity with the car/conditions).

However, some cars will grip at higher speeds instead of understeering. This is purely a drive train thing.

Okay I am fully aware that I just posted in this thread, but after reading this absolutely brain-cell deadening work of ignorance I have no other option. I sure as heck hope this is meant to be b8.

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Its true
the only issue is that the "intended technique" for FWD cars is "drive slow like a cuck because your car wont obey commands".

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Largely yes. No car will be perfect. Its up to the driver to adapt.

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>go slower to correct your shitty platform

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>still faster than RWD
im embarassed for u lol

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>This is purely a drive train thing.
>fwd front tires lose grip at higher speeds while rear tiers grip
>rwd back tires lose grip at higher speeds while rear tires grip
This is purely a driver training thing.

>theoretically and factually wrong
the state of contrarians kek

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the absolute STATE of RWD apologists

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Why are all the fastest cars in the world RWD or AWD if FWD is faster?

FWD btfos them all lel

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I'm guessing it's an impossibility to have two transmissions like pic related, right? Or is it just unnecessary weight, complexity, and drivetrain loss?

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That's Ferrari-tier madness.

No seriously, Ferrari did that in the FF.

Front wheels doing the steering, braking and putting power down while your rear tires flop around like dildo's.
vs
The front tires just steering and braking and having full control of the rear wheels.

Figure it out. There's a reason why the fastest handling race cars are rwd.

So you're saying I'm fit to be a supercar designer?

lel

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please refrain from posting ever again

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Because it's a good platform for cars that weigh less than 900kg and the ones with 100ish hp are really fun. Fun, safe, and quite easy to drive on and past their limit. An actually fast car is not safe or easy to drive on it's limit.

A good FWD, if you stiffen up the rear, will lift-off oversteer and kick out when you push it in a corner. You do drag it through corners with the throttle.

post shigno already youre getting boring nigger

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lel

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I dont get it

Whats the problem?

You're a fucking moron.

Yeah it is true but some cars have less lateral grip which means that they have to take the corner at lower speeds.

Yes except you sometimes want slight oversteer especially in rally driving.

Funnily enough, I got nostalgia baited into playing Forza 4 yesterday and had to tune a hatchback to A Class. Ended up with a 300hp Mini with catastrophic understeer that spun its wheels all the way to third gear. Pretty accurate.

its not necessarily bad technique, its a completely different technique, fwd and awd racing lines are different to the rwd racing line. With fwd cars you are supposed to slam the brakes hard and turn it at the apex. Then once you're pointing towards the exit you slam your accelerator.

Yes. Follow your dreams.

See

There are some good replies in here between all the drivetrain memery.

>Understeer in fwd is pretty easy to correct.
It cannot be corrected if you are going too fast for your platform or if the roadway has no space for correction. Otherwise, a skilled driver can correct understeer while going 200 MPH into a 90 degree turn on a standard city residential road. The ability to correct understeer requires a large enough roadway, no opposing traffic, and no dirt or gravel on the roadway.

I've felt gravel or dirt under me while slightly drifting before, and it can be scary as a controlled slightly overspeed turn switches to "danger" right out of that "risky comfy" feeling. So having a fresh clean road surface matters quite a bit.

>understeer happens to drivers, not cars.
FALSE because it is possible to deliberately adjust the car to increase or decrease understeer in the special case where the car is driving on a track where all high speed understeer turns are in the same direction. If so, the alignment of the rear wheels can be set to take advantage of that direction. For normal driving, that of course is misalignment and wears the tires faster. But in a cost does not matter race, having the car reduce understeer for turns in a particular direction can be advantageous. When adjusted, while in the turn, the rear wheels are slightly turning in that direction as well for reduced understeer. It's similar to 4 wheel steering. But for that example, because the car is providing the understeering, it means the absolute statement that "understeer only happens to drivers" is technically false.

Why do I bother on Veeky Forums.

At least I made it through a thread without seeing Corvette vs gtr

Its really just misjudging the speed and apex of a curve, so yes. However you have to cut power significantly on FWD to maintain traction without assists.

Knowing the car you're driving is the drivers concern.

Crashing a Hellcat because you've only ever driven a Jazz before is not the cars fault.

I think a lot of you guys are poorly informed on the mechanics of understeer. Understeer is a loss of grip in the steering tires; that is literally it. This happens when you max out the grip potential of the rubber and it’s unable to overcome the inertia of the car so you lose steering. One thing a lot of people forget is that a tire has both lateral grip and forward/back (caused by throttle and brakes). So if you brake or apply too much throttle mid-corner while you have the lateral grip potential borderline maxed out, you’re going to exceed the limits of the tire and cause a problem.

youtube.com/watch?v=U5RQQ-e4C1g

I've become terribly proficient at minimizing threads. You should try the same.