So for some time now I've been discussing with a friend on the origin of countries

I assume he means kievan rus

Polish-Lithuanians (including Letts) and Finns/estonians are more or less the same people as Scandinavians. Russia and Ukraine were both founded by Swedes (modern finnish word for sweden = "Ruotsi", land of the rowmen) and of course there is some similarity between parts of the populations, these are big countries with differing influence however.

goths came from sweden, afaik they weren't overtaken in italy after the conquest of western rome, britain is self-explanatory, russia and ukraine from rurikids

tunisia is just dumb as they were driven out, though they could be responsible for the idea of tunisia as a nation, same goes for the balts

About Estonia:
With the fall of Rome and the period of migrations in the early Early Middle Ages resulted in a decline in the level of culture and prosperity in Estonia. People were more concerned with survival than wealth in 500AD.
With the beginning of the Viking Age changed this. With vikings establishing contacts and trade routes which went right by island of Ösel and the coast of Viru. This brought the estonians into the influence of the cultural and economic network of vikings. A few of the companions of Rurik have estonian names. Ösellians adapt the longship and become renowed traders and raiders. Lennart Meri makes a case of that-famous-arabicish-explorer-describing-a-funeral-on-the-Volga of them being if not estonian then nearby finnourgics. By this time the local situation has also recovered and estonians contribute to the trade and the kaupang system as well by exporting iron and weapons and fur with commercial production.
No viking jarl establish themselves in the territory, though raids agains neighbors are common. In the 11th century Rus manages to conquer the fur exporting region but is driven out after a few decades by a concentrated effort by the other counties.

Germanics and Nords, not just Nords.

Britain - Saxons
France - Franks
Italy - Lombards?
Spain - Goths
Russia - Vikings
Tunisia - Vandals
Baltics - Vikings?
Ukraine - Vikings

East Germanics left their touch in Poland.

Even though butthurt pan-germanists deny that.

>Spain - Goths
>Tunisia - Vandals
Vandals left Tunisia and most of them returned to modern day Poland.

Not sure about Spain-Gothic connection, since Goths were R1a carriers.

Regarding Latvia, no.

Latvian tribes (4 of them) were a thing long before the teutons came.

Did their own raiding/warring, trade etc. The Germans then came, invaded and pretty much united the 4 Latvian tribes by force. Nords had no part in this,in fact we BTFOd ths Nords a couple of times

And you are mixing Germans and Germanics.

I can tell you about Finland, he's somewhat right about it.

Finland was a province of Sweden until 1809 when Russia took it over. For some reason the russians gave it autonomy and kept the existing swedish laws in place, basically creating a mini-Sweden inside Russia. At that time like 20% of the population of Finland spoke swedish and they made up the upper class. Fast forward 50 years and nationalism finds its way to Finland. Funnily enough it was the fennoswedes who first started embracing it, many of them changed their names to finnish sounding ones and started speaking finnish in their daily lives. If you look at the most famous finnish nationalist artists you'll find out that almost all of them spoke swedish as their native language.

what kind of autism is greater corsica?

Ukraine and Russia was both Rus, user.

>Polish-Lithuanians (including Letts) and Finns/estonians are more or less the same people as Scandinavians.
Look at this and say it again, I dare you. Poles are already different enough from Balts, and Finns are even more different from Balts, while Scandinavians are further divided from them.

>haplomemes

yaaaaaaaay

Nords are native Norwegians or native speakers of the Norwegian language.
Germanics are the ethnicities whose native languages are Germanic languages. That is West, East and North Germanic languages. Northmen, Norse, or North Germanics represent the North Germanic branch. They have historically had sway in the countries we listed, but they don't have any influence there anymore. Everything else is a matter of population genetics.
Yes, and in eastern Germany and other parts all over Europe. I only listed the countries that OP spoke about.

So at least you could say that Germans (which OP's friend seems to include in his understanding of """"nords"""") erected the first state on Latvian soil when they founded the State of the Teutonic Order?

An official state, yes. The monastic state of the Livonian order, something like that.

But the Germans called the 4 Latvian tribes as duchies/kingdoms and the chiefs as kings (rex) in their chronicles.

let me rephrase that

there were official states on Latvian soil before as well, but they didnt have the name Latvia in it. This name only appeared after all of 4 tribes assimilated each other forming one entity.

I wonder why did Germanics differ so much in genetics.
Some of them carried l1, some of them R1a and most of them R1b.

Seems like almost entire Europe is Germanic.

Because R1b=/=germanic and R1a=/=slav

for

They were both present in Germanics though, in some cases at really high frequencies.

so hol up where the hell did the germanics come from if they weren't all fucking nords?
oh wait, nords are the germans bitch
if you're not of nordic descent you're not european.

what about the viking invasions huh?
also fuck you butthurt romaboo, you're the nords bitches

even byzantium was cucks to the nords, their armies were so shit they had to hire vikings as the emperors guards
fucking read a book mudslime

You're fucking retarded if you think germanics = germans.

>Nordic
>Aka Easterlings
>European

For Tunisia is he talking about the Vandals? Because they weren't nords, they were Eastern European, not to mentionany semblance of a society they had got wiped clean with the Arab conquest

no bitch germanics are literally nords, where the fuck do you think they migrated from dumbass? oh wait thats scandinavia isn't it?

vandals are germanic dumbass

they literally migrated from scandinavia

Don't look at Ireland

No they didn't you retard. The earliest records place them in Poland and there's no way of knowing that they started there

prove it to me then bitch

>Britain (ok I can see this one being right but still)
well, there were some Viking influences and Normans founded "modern" Britain even though they were more French than Viking
>Italy (lol)
your lol is premature, they had a rather prosperous kingdom on Sicily
>Italy (lol)
>france
>Spain (wut?)
>Fucking TUNISIA lmao
calling Lombards, Franks, Visigoths and Vandals Nods isn't quite correct
>Russia
>Ukraine
yes, however Early Kievan Russia = Ukraine, later Muscovy Russia had more in common with Tatars
>Baltics (including Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania)
they had some influence, not sure how big

you can tell your friend that he is just a norse version of a weeaboo. which makes him norseboo?

he is on the same level with "we wuz kangz", "milady", "turks are the true hyperboreans", "russia is the continuation of the Roman Empire", etc

Is that some shit map from /gsg/ or something?

>The Vandals are believed to have migrated from southern Scandinavia[2][3][4] to the area between the lower Oder and Vistula somewhere in the 2nd century BC, and to have settled in Silesia from around 120 BC
>believed
Just like people call them "german" despite them being genetical ancestors of modern Western Slavs.

Not to mention that names of the Vandal rulers mean nothing in German, yet have a meaning in Slavic languages.

>believed to have migrated from southern Scandinavia
Why do so many peoples com from Scandinavia?
It seems like every 200 years a load of people migrated from there and those left behind started reproducing for the new wave.

This is a probably a bait thread fir some retarded purposes, but alright, I'll bite;

ALL of the WRE was taken over by germanics that established kingdoms there during the 5th and/or 6th centuries. Italia, Galia, Hispania, Britania and North Africa. The origins of modern European countries can be traced back to when they stopped being a province of the Roman Empire and became their own separate thing under these Kingdoms.

As for Russia and Ukraine, the origins of Rus are related to the merchant activities of Varangians sailing down the big russian rivers and aiming at Constantinople, that eventually evolved into a more sort of political nature, networking and mixing with the local slav population and producing the first russian states, the most relevant early one being Kievan Rus.

Correct, but Russia became a thing in 1500s

For Spain it is the Visigoths for Asturias, and Goths of unknown origin (vassals of the Franks) in the case of Catalonia (Gothalaunia)

hmmmm

really made me think

Where do you think the East Germanics came from if not from the Germanic urheimat, i.e. Denmark and southern Scandinavia? Nobody calls them German. They never were German. They predate the very concept of Germans. They are East Germanics. It is no surprise that they are ancestors to Western Slavs, because they lived in the same area at some point in time.
Do you have some examples for that?

Jordanes mentions during the 5th century three Gothic kings, apparently living under Hunnic rule, called Valamir, Thiudemir and Vidimir. These names are quite odd, as the first two almost certianly translate to Walamar and Thiudemar. The last seems odd in the normal Germanic naming scheme. Unless the letter "n" was left out and it actually read Vindimir. In that case it would translate to Wendemar, and the three kings would have names meaning famous Celt/Roman, famous German and famous Slav.

Isn't "mir" slavic for peace or world? Or is it only in Russian borrowed from Goths?
Whatever the history is "Vidimir" have a slavic vibe.

As for Vandals. Their names that mean nothing in Nordic languages, mean a lot in Slavic languages, like Visimar, are germanized Slavic names (Visimar - Widzimir "sees the world" or Radagaisus latin version of Radegast "happy to host")

>Isn't "mir" slavic for peace or world? Or is it only in Russian borrowed from Goths?
>Whatever the history is "Vidimir" have a slavic vibe.
That's all just folk etymology. Modern Russian does not exist for one and a half millenium after the Vandals left Poland. The name of the Vandals themselves derived from the place they came from, Vendel in eastern Sweden. It is cognate with German "wandeln" and English "to wander".

>Nords denote Scandinavia
"Nords" is not a well-defined term, it could mean germanic scandinavians or it could even just refer to norwegians

>so hol up where the hell did the germanics come from if they weren't all fucking nords?
it is true that the germanic urheimat is assumed to be scandinavia so in that sense this shows how OP's friend could be right in a way

>oh wait, nords are the germans bitch
???

>if you're not of nordic descent you're not european.
what does that "european" mean to you? the concept of europe was invented by the greeks and all indo-europeans are in a way immigrants to the continent (if you define identity over language)

>The name of the Vandals themselves derived from the place they came from, Vendel in eastern Sweden. It is cognate with German "wandeln" and English "to wander".
Exactly.

And you know how Germans called Western Slavs? Wends, meaning Wanderer as well.

According to Gregory of Tours, Vandals returned to their homeland.

>Brittain
Anglo-Saxons
>Italy
Lombards
>France
Franks
>Spain
Visigoths
>Russia&Ukraine
Kievan Rus
>Baltics
Teutonic Order and Swedes
>Tunisia
Vandals

The only one he's deeply wrong about is Tunisia, because the Vandals were destroyed by the Romans and Later Muslim rule has nothing in common with the vandals.

Current East Germany was populated by Slavs. Over time they got mostly germanized.

Not that guy, but i guess you could say that. Also the name Latvia appeared only much later on, and Livonia incorporated both what is now Latvia and Estonia in a single state, yet they are separate countries with separate national identities today.

The name Livonia was assigned to the whole land because the first people the germans encountered after landing were livonians.

But those "slavs" didn't really come there from Ukraine, like the Germans tried to manipulate.

They were native to this land.

Vendel got its name from the river, which was named simply for its movement - it was called "one which wanders". Wends, in turn, derived from the Latin term Veneti or at least from the same PIE root: *u̯en-, 'to strive; to wish for, to love'. It is cognate with the name of the goddess Venus and the German name component or for friend.

Some people believe that Vandals were the same people as Veneti.

Brits
>Conquered by the Normans (from Norway)
The Frogs
>Conquered by the Normans
Italy
>Ancient mosaics display blondes and statues are painted blue eyed with blonde/red hair. Same with Greece.
Spain
>No clue mate, maybe because the Gailic, Gothic, Celts and Vandals had all made that place their home at one point.
Russia
>Nobles I guess... Predominately slavic though
Tunisia
>I know very little about Tunisia
Baltic States
>I know they were developed a lot in the middle ages by german merchants (particularly Estonia), but I have no clue about Nordic interference.. Makes sense because they're close to the Swedes
Ukraine
>No clue

>The Frogs
>>Conquered by the Normans
"No."

I suppose the frogs just had to relinquish Normandy to them.

.

Nordicist memes die hard apparently.

But that's the opinion of a small minority. With a good reason.

That's what I'm saying. East "Germans" are actually germanized West Slavs, which is why their haplogroups are closer to Slavs than West Germans.

So wait, most of Europe is nordic or germanic? Wouldn't that mean OP's "retarded" friend was corect and you're all wrong?

Balts -> Latvia contained may different tribes, one of these tribes Curonians in 8th-12th century raided pretty much Sweden and Denmark coasts.