Is the 'poor people are only poor because they want to be poor' thing just a meme or is it a real thing?

Poverty is not a choice. This meme is neo-liberal rethorics since the 70's. There are systemic determinants and especially social reproduction.
First, poverty is not only about money (economic capital), it's also about social relations (social capital) and education (cultural capital). People deprived from the three are the poorest. People with relations they can mobilize to gain access to wealth, employement are less likely to get poor, people with a high cultural capital, like a degree and a good legitimate education is most likely to suceed in society.
In the particular case of USA, ghetto niggas are what we call sub-proletarians, when they work they don't earn enough money to live ( food + rent) They have to be integrated in local solidarities and paralel economies in order to survive (drugs, crime, ghetto life). They don't have relations to get them out of their state of poverty, no education to get accepted outside a sub-proletarian job (also because of structural racism).
Given the lack of oportunities in their lives, they turn the stigma into pride and cut themselves from the dominant society.
This also applies for white trash rednecks even if race relations in USA are quite important to understand domination.
Suggested reads about poverty (from the easiest to the most difficult):

Venkatesh, Sudhir., 2009. American project: The rise and fall of a modern ghetto.
Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press

Harvey, D., 2007. A brief history of neoliberalism. Oxford University Press

Bourgois P. 2003. In search of respect. Selling crack in el Barrio. Cambridge
University Press
Perlman J. E. 1976. The myth of marginality. Urban Poverty and Politics in Rio de Janeiro.
Berkeley, Los Angeles

Wacquant, Loic. 2009. Punishing the poor: the neoliberal government of social insecurity.
Durham, London: Duke University Press

Wacquant, Loic 2010, “Crafting the neoliberal state: Workfare, prisonfare, and social
insecurity”, Sociological Forum 25

Di Nunzio, M. 2012 "“We Are Good at Surviving”: Street Hustling in Addis Ababa's Inner
City." Urban forum, 23

Venkatesh S. 2006. Off the Books. The Underground Economy of the Urban Poor.
Cambridge MA: Harvard University Press

Burawoy, Michael 2012. "The Roots of Domination: Beyond Gramsci and
Bourdieu”. Sociology

Pierce A.J. 1979. Choice, Class and Conflict. A Study of Southern Nigerian Factory
Workers. Brighton: The Harvester Press

Willis P.E. 1977. Learning to labour: how working class kids get working class jobs.
Farnborough: Saxon House

Standing, G., 2011. The precariat: The dangerous new class. London and New York:
Bloomsbury Academic

Hall, T., 2006. Out of work and house and home: Contested youth in an english
homeless hostel. Ethnos

It's a catch-22. They barely make enough to get by (pay rent and buy basic necessities). In capitalism you need money to make money and if you don't have a chunk of capital, you're screwed until you do.

This is fucking bullshit. I make six figures and spend less than minimum wage each year because I'm responsible with money and don't blow it on stupid shit.

No, it's not bullshit. You're role playing and not very good at it either.

I'm not. Stay poor though.

low IQ and a lack of impulse control will make you poor

Your health insurance costs more than minimum wage, it's how we know you're lying

My health insurance is at no marginal cost to me from the company, though I have never been to a doctor or hospital in the past 10 years and I could easily live without it.

Minimum wage is $13K annually before taxes. That barely covers rent/mortgage in small town America. However you're unlikely to make 6 figures there.

So you either conveniently forgot that you bought a house outright and thus the "dur hur I libs on min wage itz eesy" is a lie or you're a role playing neet.

Rent and utilities is $700 a month shared with my roommate in the Seattle, where there are plenty of high paying tech jobs.

>no marginal cost to me from the company

So, you're telling me you don't have to spend much when other people pay your bills for you?

I think i could and i aint even rich yet. Neing poor in most cases is a state of mine. Rich people simple spend less of thier income percentage on stupif shit and pirchase assets while poor people like most of my peers go out 3 nights a week and drive a new car.

They didn't pay any bills. My employer self insures its employees, if I don't use it, they don't pay anything. If I was on minimum wage I would simply forgo health insurance and nothing would happen to me since I'm healthy and I haven't been to a hospital in 10 years.

I dont even know wtf u just said. Im gonna kick your son in the ribs.

>If I was on minimum wage I would simply forgo health insurance

>Durr hurr, if I made minimum wage I would have less things

You don't say...

Type B is what poor people are like

my wife's son*

Except I have never used my health insurance to pay for anything so I would not be missing out on anything at all.

Oh bullshit. If u wanna stop being poor and white trash as fuck u do like i did and start studying rich people and wtf they do. You stop blaming everyone else and take some fucking initiative and read some books. Fix your credit. Buy a rental house etc...

Watch the TV show Trading Places with Eddie Murphy and Dan Ackyroid.

I think mismanagement of money is a factor, but that doesn't mean that's everybody's problem. Every case is unique. There's no single formula for why some people are poor and some aren't

The fuck ever. Its not my fault that people are too stupid and lazy to work overtime at mcdonalds and move 4 mioes down the road to a not shitty neighborhood in the ghetto. Ive been in most all american ghettos and they are full of lazy useless trash that refuse ro get a fucking job and would rather steal shit

Dont. I paid cash for a metal plate in my foot. Took me 7 years to pay it off and was a high af bill

Keep insurance

Topkek

>I managed to climb the social ladder
>everyone can do this
>I know some guy who did it from nothing to Wall Street, Rockfeller style
These cases are so rare it does not constitute a sociological truth
This is not how it works, fag

>start studying
how do you start studying when uni is so expensive? when you have to spend several years outside of the labor market untill you finish your degree?
when your parents doesn't push you and can't help you with homework?
>read some books about rich people
kek
Self help books are memes, rich people are rich because they inherited a capital or were transmitted cultural or social capital.
Also, why would you read if you're not good at it and you don't understand because you had a shitty education?

Her life was over, she understood that and decided to try to provide for her kids. Seems noble to me.

You replied to the wrong nigga, nigga. I thought the same thing as you but she still had 5k that she managed to blow in 3 months. Granted it's not a fortune but I wouldn't blow a third of my winnings that fast.

>Uni expensive
He never said uni. Maybe for faggots like you uni is a good way to learn enough bullshit to get to a position where you plan the gibs for the government and take your cut as a salary.

In the real world basic shit like doing something useful, saving, investing and keeping out of trouble is all you need to do to get to a reasonably ok position. Who cares if they're memes?

Even from the ghetto niggers with half a brain can make it. You want some reading material try something about 50 cent like The 50th law. For a long time he patiently pushed drugs, saving his money and avoiding the big risks that got people who got greedy killed. With his money he launched a music career.

Of course most people in the ghetto won't do that but don't believe it's just some structural shit keeping them down. That is how niggers want to live. If they all had the intelligence and drive of 50cent or white people it wouldn't take long for them to build up the capital to have a nice society. No, it is in their nature to do the least possible to get their next hit of brain chemicals with very little forward planning.

Why the fuck would I ever need to get a metal plate in my foot?

Thing about health insurance is that you don't need it right up until you desperately need it. Just because you've been healthy for ten years doesn't mean you won't suddenly get cancer or some shit.

But thanks to Obamacare companies cannot deny me for pre-existing conditions so I can just sign up if I ever need it. The beauty of socialism.

They only have certain periods where enrollment is open, do you really want to potentially have to wait six months before you can sign up to get treatment for something life threatening?

Definitely real.

My coworker makes 10/hr, moved back in with his parents cause rent was too expensive. Drives a 25 year old truck that perpetually breaks down.

Always has money for vidya, anime cons, movies, eating out, etc. poor people always find some way to eat.

This is the ugly truth.

You qualify for a special employment period if you change jobs. Just quit McDonald's and apply to Burger King. Though this is all moot anyone since anyone on minimim wage qualifies for Medicaid.

If some poor nigger broke it when trying to take your wallet

>anyone on minimum wage qualifies for medicaid
Plenty of states did not expand medicaid.

Yuuup I can second this entirely. I make 14 hr, and live frugally so I can take atleast 2 trips a year. Coworker makes 17 hr, buys every new game when it comes out, plays it twice before shelving it forever "If I'm not having fun I stop playing." He says. Also buys complete collectors editions for games when he doesn't even own the console, "It looks nice on my shelf". And this guy is always sooo jealous when I come back from my multiple yearly week long excursions "I wish I had money do travel " lmfao

>I wish I had money to travel
Am I the only one that doesn't like traveling? I don't like being around people I don't know.

There are a million ways to travel. It can be as personal or social as you want it to be. I don't even mean backpacking on a trail for a week, I've been to all inclusive resorts where the only people I talked to were my waiters for dinner. If the thought of that gives too much anxiety, then you really need to get out more than you think. It only becomes more comfortable the more you do it, trust me, this is coming from someone who spent half a cruise in his room weeping while reading "Introverts power " wondering wtf was wrong with me, then something clicked...i just went out there and enjoyed myself, because that's what everyone's there for.

one of the most well-thought out posts ive seen on this board, let alone in this thread

>prior to the information age
maybe
>after the information age
Yes people are permanently poor by choice (barring medical conditions).
I was born in poverty prior to the information age and still was able to eventually get out of poverty. If I was born after internet 2.0 it would have been dramatically easier.
The problem I see today is information exchange consists of dumb niggers sending dumb information to other dumb nigger while the complain about being poor.
They could easily get an e-book and learn new information and skills while they sit on the toilet.

are you serious? do you never get your teeth cleaned or eyes checked? never get an infection that would go away much faster with a prescription med? there's a lot more use for health insurance than the emergency room, and having to pay for new glasses or a tooth filling out of pocket can be pretty rough if you're poor and uninsured. the lack of preventative care visits can also snowball into serious conditions that need even more money and more time to recover from.

But why would I pay just to stay inside? I can get plenty of enjoyment where I live right now spending time with family and friends, hunting, and playing video games. Unlike your coworker my gaming budget is very low, just $200 or so a year, about half of my income goes into investments. I really just want to retire early and be able to stay at home relaxing.

I can get eye exams for $50 at Costco, and a teeth cleaning for $70 at my local dentist.

I think it goes both ways a little, it's true that no matter how frugal you are, at $10/hr you'll probably never save up enough for a house or whatever, and relocating can be difficult especially if your parents don't want to or can't take care of you. However the big issue with wasteful spending is that no one cares about emergency funds, too many retards who think because they'll never own a mansion there's no point in saving any money at all, then get absolutely boned when their car breaks down, they get sick and miss some work, etc.
minimum wage is not even $1,000/mo, often barely enough to afford rent, transportation, food, etc. that's a lot to have to spare for some people, and those are the exams themselves. I'm talking about if you need to buy glasses or get even a minor dental procedure done. or if you get sick, can't afford to go to a clinic and get it cleared up faster, so you can't go to work and then lose even more money in the long run.

>Why would I pay to stay inside

That's exactly the first obstacle I overcame when I first traveled, I was in another country, doing exactly what I was doing at home. You just gotta snap out of it and experience different things when you're some place new or else you're right, there's no point leaving your neighborhood. Things just don't change automagically because you're somewhere else. It's the same toxic thought process as the "welp same shit different day " crowd. Well no shit it's same shit different day because you've been living the same day for the last 5 years and calling it your life why do you think tomorrow will be any different?

Financial education is a point of privilege, usually it's taught to us by our parents and it becomes second nature. People are a product of their environment. Garbage in, garbage out.

The thing is people who are blind to their privilege tend to spout memes like "the poor made the choice to be poor".

I'm poor and living in a poor country, If I knew what to do to not be poor I would do it, but I don't. For me it's not a choice.

If you take your health seriously you won't have these issues. The problem is that poor people buy junk food which is not only more expensive but also leads to health problems down the line.

I enjoy the "same shit" everyday though, I'm not a novelty seeker.

it's true, i stopped eating cheeseburgers 3 times a day and now i have perfect vision and never get sick

are you saying you've never had a sinus infection, flu, etc. in 10 years? do you ever take off work due to illness?

To those who earn

That's fine if you really need this much convincing to go somewhere new it's clearly not for you but if you do find yourself in a position where nothing seems that fulfilling and a new vidya or a weekend out with the boys doesn't have the same fun return it once did, then it just means you're changing as a person and try something new, not desperately doubling down on that thing that used to give you joy

I buy a new pair of glasses online for around $60 every year. I don't need fancy desginer glasses by Gucci. And of course I get sick, I'm just not an idiot who goes to the emergency room for a minor cough. The more I participate in these threads the less respect I have for the poor.

>I don't have health insurance
If you don't have a plan to pay for medical expenses you are planning to fail my friend.

Guess what, when the state bails you through bankruptcy out the rest of us are going to have to pay for it, because you can't manage your budget. You're the one who doesn't know shit about financial education.

The alternative is that you die in the street which isn't acceptable either. This is why we need single payer.

No, some people are born retarded/mental illnesses. Drug addictions/alcoholism, and some people are just plain dumb, like only able to read at a 3rd grade level.

Another factor is being born with some modicum of wealth and decent parents.

I dicked around in my early twenties doing drugs and banging sluts working a shit job. It hit me at 25 that I needed to go finish my degree and start earning. I may not have been able to finish on my own, but my parents helped me out, gave me great advice, a place to stay and a two years later on the dot I was out of state at a job earning three times more than I was before.

Now tell me your average nigger or trailer trash sister is going to have the foresight to realize their situation is looking grim and they need to do something about it. Now tell me how many of their parents/family are going to help them out.

Being born poor, stupid, and with a stupid family is truly an awful start.

A poor man should be working around the clock to fix their situation. There should be no such thing as being broke and bored. There are a million and one ways to make money in the world, with 900,000 of them being online. So only a dummy would sit poor forever.

Yeah it's a real thing

I've stopped talking to some people because their permanent victim mindset and forever poor attitude

Some people are just dumb, no doubt about it, but you're dumb if you just assume that everyone in an economic class is the same and has the same opportunities. Some people are born with a disadvantage and zero knowledge of how to do it "right". There is such thing as inequality, fewer opportunities, rising expenses, corruption to beat the band, etc. The truth is simple: there really is no such thing as equal opportunity for all.

>there really is no such thing as equal opportunity for all
There is no such thing as equal outcomes for all.

Then that should be made known clearly instead of pushing the myth of meritocracy

If you believe that, then why are you saying that anyone can go from poverty to porsches, like you?

It's not your fault if you're born poor, it's only your fault if you die poor

You guys realize 90% of the population is fighting over 40% of wealth in the country, right? Rich fuckfaces have been hoarding the money since before I was born, and you tell the poor it's their fault. Harsh. Sure you can improve your situation within the limits that have been set and exist outside most peoples' control.

Are you saving enough money to retire at 65? Killing yourself when you get old is not a valid option here.

Why? Will god throw poorfags that commit sudoko back on planet earth?

I would say it is a choice. I come from a very poor family and both my parents aren't educated. Growing up in that household, it was just frustrating to see the way they save pennies here and there. My dad was a wagecuck who saved as much as he could and didn't believe in investing his money into anything because it's risky. He'd literally just keep his money and earn interest and think he's getting rich even though he doesn't understand that inflation's just eating into his money's worth. Everytime I tried to talk to him into a business venture, he wouldn't listen. He'd even advice me not to go and start my own business.

At some point in my life, I decided I don't want to live the life they want me to (get married and make children just so they get to play with grandchildren, while I be a wagecuck my whole life).

I did a little bit of petty crime / hustling here and there and bought myself a computer which changed my whole life. Getting access to internet was almost impossible since I couldn't afford it. Eventually I hustled my way into some more money with which I had internet for about 2 years. I taught myself a little bit of programming and I made a little bit of money here and there until I was able to move out of his house. I made more money since then and I hired professional developers who would do the work I assign to them while I focus on getting clients.

My poor parents still don't want to accept the fact that I've made a life for myself. All they see is that I don't have a "job".

It's not that hard to make money. Being poor is certainly an obstacle but you can overcome it if you try. I have no sympathy for poor people. Fuck them.

Making money is literally just a function of your social network. Gettin a degree and hard work are just excuses so the rich can exclude undesirables. The truth is that success in life is all about the right family and friends. There's a read on autistic people have high rates of homelessness. Understanding category theory and evolutionary algorithms means nothing if you aren't friends with someone at a tech firm

To be fair, that money was still better use to her younger kin than herself considering her dying squalidly. I'm sure they spent that money niggishly, but i still stand by my statement.

The whole species started with nothing though. The economy still grows as well. Somewhere along the line, someone must have genuinely created something.

Very good post, I haven't seen this level of deep thought on biz in a long time.

Now buy [cryptocurrency] it is going to the moon.

>Don't have children until you can afford it
>Finish High-School at least
>Get a job and don't spend all your money each month
>Avoid debt
>Use the benefits given to the poor.

If you live in a western country and you are poor it's your fault.

Literally everybody can be middle class if they wanted too. Being filthy rich is another story though. Literally live in the information age and people keep on making excuses about how they don't know how to escape poverty, it's the white mans fault, its the republicans fault, its the democrats fault, it's the Mexicans fualt etc. lies and bullshit. People make excuses for their own lack of literally spending 20 minutes on their smart phone to educate themselves and having the self discipline to implement what they learned.

Let me ease your mind. The daughter's boyfriend got shot and killed at a house party because he stole from some drug dealers and they finally tracked him down. Fucking thug ass ghetto niggers.

Butthurt Poorfag detected...

Dude. Im not saying all cases are a rags to riches story even though i know people who were bankrupt 20 years ago and now have a 15 person hot tub. I know that isnt the norm. Financial self help books are not a meme u fucking pleb. I can hold a financial conversation about taxes with the same rich guy while also talking about the inner workings of an oil rig.

And no shit college is expensive. I couldnt afford it and find a job that wasnt fucking nights at arby's. Twice... twice i dropped out.

I didnt climb any social ladder i am still the same retard hillbilly i always have been. Working hard is not a meme. When u have a shit job and work 3 times as hard as lazy ass coworkers it shows. I fucking hate coworkers. Hell this is why i work alone.

Its not how you are raised its basic common fucking sense. If your situation suck misery dick then you find a way to change it. And if you cant u keep trying till u die. Laying aroynd smoking weed all day and bitching about the man keeping you down or rioting and burning all of your free shit that i paid for makes 0 fucking sense.

My life was shit. I descided to just emulate wtf the rich do. I bought a forbes subscription. Read some recomended books. Found a few real estate investment sites and hand holding classes. Started hunting books for my realtor liscense etc...

Its called initiative and if a retarded redkneck like me can find enough of it to break the average 750 credit score and acquire rental properties than pretty much anyone can do it. Its not even fucking hard if u can find the self control to not go out 4 nights a week or buy a new car every year.

God willing you never do. Wear your fall protection or stay on the ground user.

Yup. Just posted my foot. Short of a smashed finger or getting the flu i was fine. Then i crashed a bike in an asphault didtch and before i paid ot off the roof gave ina church i was building. Laid up over a year. Crippled for life.

I hear they are working on a whole knew prosthetic ankle i may consider bit its $350,000. Part of the reason i descided to get rich

ITT: user is fine, gets lung cancer and dies.

Not kidding dude. I know a woman that got 1 insurance check before she died. It sucks.

No. I been in most major cities and i hate most people i do know. I have no desire to leave my little town almost always.

No mutherfucker. You are wrong.

I grew up in a fucking shitty trailer house. Mom does well enough to be happy.

Dad is working class rich and the definition of work hard blue collar. Nothing i say can change it and he seems happy. So meh.

But i flat out refuse to "work hard." Hobble around working overtime and die.

Used financial books while worn out and outdated are a stepping stone. Not a cure all but u learn basics, invest some time and money, use what works, ditch what doesnt, constantly try new shit, network, get rich.

I live in a shithole and rent a house twice as nice out. I'm buying an even better one soon. Im not rich by any means. Im finding good deals. Im investing and learning and when a hot water heater blows i get to do like i did last night and drive 1 hour for flooring so i can work 11 hours today and then go put a floor in and probably a $500 fucking hot water heater.

There are a billion things i would rather do than work 15 fucking hours or more today. But i figure u either invest your time or money or both. Whatever you have. You can let your investments grow and twiddle your thumbs or you can slap that bich on the ass and ride it to freedom.

Fuck letting my assets rot and stare at the wall.

I'm getting rich or i'm dying young tired and broken knowing i tried.

And thats why u will always be poor man. There is always a way. And if you could just believe that and refuse to stay poor you will find a way.

Nope /flex.

Master race blue collar. Over 3 years. 0 sick days. Never late bit like twice when my truck broke.

Working on the savings. Not having kids. The rest is pretty much handled. Thete is always room for improvement tho.

Yup. Bit people dont give a fuck if they dont have to pay. Once again it falls on our backs. The working man.

Load's getting heavy mutherfuckers...

No shit. I only respect poor people that are working on umfucking themselves

Yap. Always ina pissy mood. Never their fault. Etc...

I can buy a shit porche and reatore it.

Loopholes exist for a reason

Wtf are u saying faggot. I killed my self being cussed out at a shitty quarry and applied to any other ones i could. Got a job here and busted ass. Now they love me.

Nothing to do with social circles. A fucking stranger hired me.