Touhou General /2hug/ #47

fuck off you hypocritical verboten faggot

>Already lost the game
>To Aya

Better commit seppuku right now

>Kappa have optical camouflage
Are they part of the la li le lo lu?

What's got your panties in a twist?

no meed to be so salty

Now I'm just confused, are you Seijafag?

Are you the shitposter on a high horse?

Explain further, I genuinely have no clue what you're talking about.

I have a feeling you're like that a lot outside /2hug/

>Feel random urge to play PCB after only beating once months ago
>Almost 1cc it but continued right before the final spellcard
Man I completely forgot Yuyuko's non-spell attacks can be more tricky than the actual spells.

PCB was the only game I managed to clear, and fuck her last spell destroyed me.

at least the music is good.

What difficulty? PCB was the easiest to 1cc on normal for me, maybe it was a fluke on my part.

Agree, it's up there with EoSD and PoFV

I was on normal, though it was my first 2hu game as well.

It was my first played game too, but not my first cleared, that would be EoSD. PCB is a great first toehoe game.

I can't get EoSD to work in english on my computer, so I jumped to PCB and cleared that and got the bad ending I went back to play EoSD and I'm not a fan of the spell cards.

It is really nice to see Veeky Forums talking about the main games!

Its equally nice to see cute yuyu's.

>new AoCF PV reveals Doremy as a playable
>Seems like anyone can make it
>Antinomy of Common Flowers
>Flowers
>Throwing mechanics added
Yuuka confirmed a grappler

Please let it be true anons.

Cute Yuyus are always welcomed man.

Oh, hey, it's the 7th now.
Neat.

7th what

Of October.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

After seeing that user play MoF I wanted to give it a try again, I'm going againdt Kanako now, wish me luck.
why is the 7th of october so important?

I think it's the existential dread of realizing time is continuing.

itss not im just wasting away

Ok that one didn't go so well but I feel it in my bones that I can 1cc MoF after I beat Kanako now. This one's the good one.
Oh, it's probably that I'm still at 6th so I don't get it yet.

...

Oh god what's this. Does it end in rape?

Find out yourself.
exhentai.org/g/989618/ffd3fd7869/

I called it. That's truly a wacky lewd crossover. I still haven't gotten off my ass to get past the panda, and my brother is in the room anyways.

>Get to your phone
>change the "x" for a "-"
Why do you shitpost in 4chin in front of your brother, don't you have any shame?

He'll be here in 3 or so years I bet you, Veeky Forums is easier to hide than straight up porn anyways, benefits of using a laptop

>this image
KEK

now I'm remembering the Dio vs Sakuya one minute melee cancer.

MUDADAyeah it was cancer

Now you made me remember that Sakuya vs the Undertale kid animation. And that an Undertale fan went to /jp/ to make an autistic rant in a wall text because the undertale kid lost.

I didn't watch it but fuck the cringe is real.
Someone post cringey 2hu videos

But isn't that basically the only one that went like it should have?

Sakuya straight up cannot deal with a stand user, she can't see a stand at all, and Dio is faster and stronger. Not to mention her knives wouldn't have much effect on him. Christ I can't believe i'm having this discussion now

The key difference is in usage. Sakuya can stop time basically indefinitely. Dio can't. Stand or no, sakuya can win on basis of that. In the same way dio was superior to jotaro, sakuya is superior to dio. Thats basically it.

Plus, i dunno how the "Can't see stands unless you have one" thing works for some fucked up possibly not human girl working for a vampire in a fantasy land of god knows what kinda bullshit.

Well, Sakuya can't do much to Dio if she stops time, sure she can do it indefinitely, but the best she can do is run away. She can't physically kill him or disable him. Remember Star Platinum and ZA WARUDO are roughly the same speed. So it's not unreasonable for Dio to reflect her knives if she pulls the same trick he did. Dio only needs a split second to finish the fight. Once he stops time (which will eventually happen if she keeps a prolonged fight) she gets the Kakyoin treatment. As for not being able to see stands, she shouldn't be able to see stands to my memory as only stand users can see stands.

you are aware that as a vampire, dio's basically on par with some of the middling level shit in gensokyo right? He ain't got shit on flan, thats for sure. Or suika. Tenshi. Sakuya has dealt with worse. For that matter, we went over last thread how she's equipped to fight vampires on account of flan, same as patchy with her rain bullshit.

It'd be like fighting a buff homoerotic remi, without the chain bullshit. At best, dio can level the playing field for around 13 seconds max, and then its over.

Stop, Sakuya is NOT a slut

See, Sakuya has dealt with that shit under spellcard rules. Things get dicey for her in a real life or death battle. You also seem to forget that Dio stops time for 10 seconds max sure, but he can easily close a good amount of distance in that time frame, and a single strike from The World would end Sakuya.

So we're assuming dio does everything 100% perfectly and sakuya goes full fucking retard then?

>hasn't played soku

You're assuming the opposite my dude. Also nice strawman. Look Sakuya is pretty rad, but she's not capable of harming a Jojo vampire because the two settings are entirely different. She's not a hamon user and manuevering DIO into the sun is difficult. It becomes a matter of whether or not she runs away or if DIO can capitalize on a moment where time resumes and use that to get the jump on her with The World.

The fighters still operate under the spell card rules to my understanding. Just represented in a different way.

DIO's regenerative abilities can be reduced without the sun. Jonathan did it through sheer muscle and a fucking statue.

All sakuya needs to do is last 10 seconds. Thats it. Dio needs to kill sakuya in 10 seconds. A much harder task.

Sakuya is still a normal human user. Fuck we're not even sure if they can cancel each other out in time stop. If dio stops time and Sakuya can't cancel it, she loses. If she stops time and beats the shit out of him a whole bunch she can eventually whittle him down sure. But it's going to either take a lot of time outside of time stop, giving DIO a better chance to finish the fight with his own. Jonathan still used hamon almost exclusively in his battle with DIO, since it was more practical than whittling away at him non-stop.

I should clarify, she's either going to have to attack outside of timestop consistently or stop time repeatedly at risk of DIO catching on. She doesn't just collect the knives because she has a limited number of them, she carefully tries to guard her ability when fighting new opponents.

>Normal human
>That stops time

I'm running under the assumption that they would be able to cancel out, because sakuya is literally just za warudo with no limitations.

Second, in jonathans first fight where dio became a vampire, he had no special abilities or anything. Dio survived a bunch of shit. Even broke jonathans arm. Yet jonathan still outmuscled dio and shoved him onto a statue.

Where are you getting from what i said that she'd need to leave time stop? she can stay in it basically indefinitely. And then attack dio the same way dio attack joseph.

Seriously, have you never caught on that Sakuya is just ZA WARUDO, But without any of the limits?

Well in that case. They cancel each other and Sakuya loses on a speed disadvantage against something that's able to break her in two from a distance of 30 feet (or 10 meters if you use metric). She can stop time, but physically she hasn't been shown to be tougher than a normal human. As to his first fight with DIO, DIO hadn't drank as much blood as he had by his final fight. Hampering his regeneration abilities. By the final fight (And part 3 since that's the DIO we're talking about).

As for leaving time stop. Her blades don't move until time resumes no? So she'd have to throw her knives and move outside of range of something she can't see, then resume time, resetting DIO's ability essentially and adding a second to his timer.

>Speed disadvantage
What? Have you ever seen sakuya fight in soku?

My point stands that his vitality isn't limitless

And the knives can move as she pleases outside of spellcard rules.

You got any proof for that? Soku still works under spell card rules, and most people are pulling their punches, why don't you think she's skewering Cirno or Reimu on her knives? Even IN soku her own time stop ability stops her knives until it's over. Even if she's fast, I don't think she's capable of moving faster than something that can outspeed a bullet, that she can't even see. Hell she didn't even have the fastest dash in the game. That title goes to Youmu, last I remember she moved quite slow.

We're talking solely about ability to move, which can be seen in "Wound sign ~ Inscribed red soul" or "Scarred soul ~ Soul Sculpture". She's also capable of physically keeping up with some of gensokyo's stronger residents, regardless of spellcard rules blunting the blows.

And i really hate to be that guy, but whats stopping sakuya from going full itachi and infinite tsukuyomi-ing? Spellcard rules.

So if we're assuming no holds barred, it only makes sense to think that sakuya is even stronger than we've seen.

AAAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I'm talking about her knives, not herself. She can move in time stop just fine. But the knives she throws are not not to mention both abilties don't seem to involve timestop, just her abnormal skills with knives Again, in the spell card rules are people pulling their punches. Shit if Cirno is capable of keeping up with Marisa in GFW and everyone else in Soku, clearly there's a lot of holding back being done. Outside of spellcard rules, we can't really judge her strength, but she can't do a significant amount of damage to DIO that he can't just heal away.

Okay, i'm getting rid of this double standard BS right now. Either choose with or without spellcard rules and apply it to both. If with, Dio gets nerfed. If without, Sakuya gets buffed. Thats just how it is. Sakuya is not dumb enough to listen to rules in a fight where the other party isn't following them. On the other hand, if they are automatically enforced, dio would fall under their influence as well.

Second, her knives stop moving a moment after she stops touching them. As seen in "Sakuya's world". There's nothing stopping her from walking up to dio after dio's time is up and just stabbing him to death.

We'll obviously assume spell card rules are not applying. Then here's my argument.

>Nothing's stopping her from walking up to DIO after his time is up
Well we'll assume she somehow lived through 10 seconds of dealing with an opponent with vastly superior speed, agility, reflexes, strength and who's main force is invisible to her, indestructible by and of her methods and capable of turning buildings to rubble and punching holes through people.

She'll stab DIO a bunch with a knife, then she'll resume time. Problem is, in most circumstances she might not even kill him, or even disable him enough. Dio's been literally split in half by a sword, he's been reduced to a head AND The World is capable of self preservation and will attempt to defend the user to the best of it's ability, even in time stop, just like Star Platinum.

If you can explain to me why stand users are the only people able to see stands in a manner besides "Just because" i'll give up on the point that a youkai extermination specialist can't see one. If you can't, the possibility is there, and strong at that. Its a bullshit rule araki made up on the spot to prevent hamon from being useful again. If we wanna get technical, jonathan fights in eye's of heaven perfectly fine without a stand, so obviously somethings got to give.

Second, dio's regeneration isn't even all that good. He's had major wounds several times. The only reason he recovers from them is that he saps people of blood. Sakuya would catch on after one time, considering she works for a vampire of similar capabilities. I would count the time he got split in half as an outlier, because the actual damage wasn't all that much. being split in half sucks, but all he needed to do was put himself back together and heal a sliver, and that was that. Every time he's had a hole in his stomach, its taken at least 1 person being drained to heal it.

As for sakuya's actual ability, you're right. We don't have an accurate method of guaging it. But at the same time, we do know she takes care of every job in an entire mansion by herself because patchy and flan can't, remi won't, and meiling doesn't. On top of this, she's able to fight remi head on, if soku is to be believed, and remi is approximately equal to dio, give or take. And i know what you are going to say. "Blah blah blah spellcard rules". Doesn't matter. Spellcard rules don't stop remi from flinging herself around the stage like flubber or slamming into sakuya full force. Sakuya is at least capable of dealing with that level of superhuman ability, spellcards or no, as those were basic attacks and abilities. Not spellcards, but basic ass attacks.

That's how it works in Jojo, it's how it's been. Araki just says "Only stand users can see stands". So a vampire slayer is probably not gonna see a stand. Any of the fighting games are entirely non canon.

I mean in terms of DIO's ability to regenerate it's inconsistent at best. But he's been cut in half, had his brain nearly destroyed, lost an arm at least twice. In the first three cases, he hasn't need to drain anyone to heal the wounds. I think it's mostly done for dramatic effect.

You don't understand how the spellcard rules work do you? Soku is not "full force" people are pulling their punches. They say nothing about going fast, but they do say something about killing people. They're mock battles, that's the whole point of them. Remilia's normals, shots and specials have no intention of being full force, otherwise they'd be lethal. Remember she uses her hands as claws, if she was going full force, no holds barred, Cirno, Reimu, Sanae and Marisa would be sliced into bits, who are also in Soku.

I've been playing touhou for 2 years and I still can't 1cc. Have you ever been too stupid to achieve your goals no matter how hard you tried?

I've yet to beat jagged alliance 2 or 7.62 high calibre, despite them being some of my favorite games. Mostly because I get stuck on some part for too long and give up

>entirely non-canon

Out of continuity maybe, but non-canon is pushing it.

His regeneration has been shown to require blood several times. His first wounds from jonathan took more people than dio cares to remember, even. can you remember how many breads you have eaten in your life?

Regardless of the relative force involved, it still hits hard enough to send sakuya flying if it connects. Mock battles or not, danger or not, sakuya is fighting against people of much higher power than the average human. No amount of spellcard rule bullshit gets around that in soku. Its safer to say that in soku, the damage itself is contained rather then the abilities being downgraded.

On top of this, half the shit she'd have to deal with like eye lasers from dio and invisibility from za warudo, she's dealt with before as a result of reisen.

its not like she hasn't fought invisible opponents before.

Like I said, regeneration is inconsistent at best. In his final battle he sustains pretty serious wounds (loss of an arm, split in two) but regenerates just fine shortly after and he doesn't drink a drop of blood.

The jojo fighters are pretty non canon (barring the Stardust Crusader ones). Some concession to canonicity are made for gameplay.

As for the abilites being downgraded. Yes, they are, they're downgraded by virtue of being used in a spellcard battle. Spell cards alone are impractical, even in setting. The normals are dialed back versions of their own abilities, as to play nice with each other. Essentially like using a wooden sword or a paintball gun instead of bringing a halberd down on someone or blasting them with a .308.

>doesn't drink a drop of blood

It shows a shot of him draining a chick from the neck.

Second, have you seen some of the shit they do in soku? Some of that shit can't be called "Holding back". Meiling roc killing fist would be fucking devastating if spellcards didn't blunt the damage.

Reisen's lasers are entirely different than DIO's stingy eyes. Reisen's ability is entirely magic and her invisibility is an illusion, she still has a physical presence in the material world. The World makes no sound, is entirely invisible and can manifest and de manifest at will, ontop of being indestructible. DIO's stingy eyes is capable of ripping through stone, ontop of being infectious. So she can't block it, just dodge. The World would be invisible with absolutely no indicator outside of something nearby exploding into dust or her suddenly being struck (unlike Reisen's ability during a spell card battle, like the only time Sakuya's faced Reisen).

Where does it ever say that its indestructible? Stands get hurt all the time.

You're literally defeating you're own argument. By virtue of being a spell card battle, it's holding back. Like you said, if she didn't hold back because it's a spell card duel, it would be devestating, but it isn't because she's holding back as not to completely kill her opponent.

I'm talking about Jonathon's fight with Dio at the end of part 1. youtu.be/0up9YwLwE0c?t=50 He doesn't drink a single drop of blood during this part of the battle (nor the whole battle to my memory) but he still reconnects his arm and puts himself back together.

By other stands. Only stands have been really shown hurting other stands. Jotaro can punch metal, tear through metal, block knives and stop bullets with Star Platinum and doesn't take so much as a scratch, but DIO's fist grazing star platinum's check causes a small cut on his. Stands don't get hurt by mundane methods to my memory.

So far as dio's healing, yeah, i'll agree its dumb there. I think araki realized that at the end of part 1 and dialed that shit back a lot.

The issue with this argument is that its basis is in a regular world with a few superhuman fuck faces, but with a very select couple rules with no mechanical explanation, versus one girl from a world filled with supernatural assholes where everyone is forced to "Play nice". Its all bullshit.

At the end of the day, if we assume sakuya can see za warudo, because you can't convince me with any tangible arguments that the possibility isn't there, she's got a fighting chance. A damn good one at that. If not, she'd probably die, yeah. you gotta remember, she had these abilities well before coming to gensokyo. So she obviously survived somehow.

Well, even if she can see The World, she can't hurt it, since only a stand can hurt a stand. So it comes down to attempting to dodge it and striking DIO, then it comes down to her attempting to damage DIO enough to kill him, which she might not even know the threshold for since DIO can't be killed unless his head takes an arbitrary amount of damage, he's exposed to sunlight, has his stand destroyed, or is struck by hamon. She may have a chance, but it's a slim one at best.

Considering she was dealing with flandre well before coming to gensokyo, i dunno if i'd call her chances "Slim". She's obviously got some technique or other that works on vampires, or she wouldn't be the human head maid of a mansion run by them. It'd be asking to die.

>for 2 years
What does it mean? Did you try every day or did you just play once in a month and that's it? Practice makes perfect. Which game are you trying to 1cc?

To my understanding, Flandre isn't over aggressive like head canon makes her out to be. Dealing with Flandre probably isn't more difficult than guiding a destructive child. Since pretty much everyone else in the mansion has dealt with her before.

user you fucking idiot. Go play TD and beat it.

Of course. Using Flandre as a talking point is a stupid argument, because if you're gonna complain about vaguely defined rulesets, don't use a character who has so little canonical information we can have an entirely seperate discussion that takes up twice the posts.

If flandre hadn't thrown a super-destructive temper tantrum at some point, there'd be no reason for patchy and sakuya to have anti-vampire countermeasures.

Or you know, the other explanation where Flandre is just a child that doesn't know her own strength, so keeping her locked up is easier than attempting to introduce her to the outside world. Like I said, this is a talking point that could fill the thread because there's so little canon information here it's not even funny.

Its not my fault i have to go with this when everything else i say gets deflected by "But spellcard rules" or "But stands can't be seen or hurt by fucking anything but another stand"

In both situations the argument is deflected by poorly defined bullshit that somehow goes in favor of jojo despite a horrendously lower overall powerlevel on that side.

I can't even bring up vampire weaknesses because araki's a fucking hack and only muh super speshul asthma breathing can actually hurt a vampire. Despite a statue doing fairly good damage on its own.

Seriously, this shit is so inconsistent and poorly thought out that zun seems like a god damned genius. And not a musical one.

Have you ever watched or read jojo? Because that's all there is too it. Only stands can hurt stands and only stand users can see them. That's all there is too it. Seriously cool your jets. The spell card rules specifically make it so judging anyone's powers, flandre, suika, yukari, fuck even hecatia difficult (who's straight up the strongest by word of god). If you're so booty blasted by powerlevel, you should understand in the grand scheme of things. Sakuya is middling or low tier at best. She's out classed in sheer power by a good handful of characters.

Man, this isn't even about powerlevel at this point.

What rustles my jimmies is that anything i say is fucked by a one off comment made to make sure stands stayed special and hamon stayed out of it. There's no mechanical depth to it, there's no reason for it to be a thing other than to fuck this other thing, its just some shit that was tacked on to keep shit special.

>one off comment
Stands have been that way since the beginning. Are you frustrated by the fact that Tenshi is canonically unable to be hurt by Sakuya's knives, or how about the moonbitches being strong for no mechanical depth besides a reason to be "fuck Reimu and the crew, we need drama?"

You ever play make believe as a kid and you and the other guy would just go back and forth with stupid bullshit and eventually the other kid would just pronounce himself invincible?

Because thats basically what "Stands can't be seen or hurt" is.

So you're fine with the moonbitches and Tenshi being the same damn thing, but buttblasted when stands are brought into the equation? You were just as guilty as that before too, what with "Sakuya can totally out run a stand and survive being hit by it!" without even taking into account it being indestructible and invisible, that's a pretty dumb claim my guy.

The moonbitches are older, smarter, and trained under eirin. They have good reason to be where they are.

Tenshi is a literal Divine being. And honestly, i always called bullshit on her endurance, but she lost to suika so it ends at some point.

And i only ever brought up that stupid shit because without it, its all just "Stands are fucking invincible so no argument at all matters".

When you are trying to fight the logic of the autist that just proclaimed himself invincible, no one wins. Its worse if that invincibility is assumed from the outset.

ZUN's got the power creep bad dude. Moonbitches are a tame example, they may be old, but it's still fucking dumb they're just "DUDE STRONGER THAN ALL OF GENSOKYO LMAO" they're purely there for drama I will admit my bias that I fucking hate the moonbitches and think they're hacky as fuck writing now Hecatia is even worse with "Dude she's stronger than BOTH the moon AND GENSOKYO" Either way, we're comparing apples and oranges here, different series have power levels displayed in different ways. What's weak in 2hu is gonna be strong in a different series. You wouldn't compare Goku to say Kanako. It's just not a good comparison.