I've often seen people dismiss the notion that American culture has been manipulated by hostile foreign elements as a "tinfoil conspiracy theory" but I've never really understood what is so crazy about it.
We know for a fact that the Soviets wanted to destabilize American hegemony so why wouldn't they use every means available to achieve this end? Perhaps the greatest difference between the USA and the USSR was the open liberal culture that tolerated the free exchange of ideas in contrast to the tightly controlled, regulated and censored culture behind the "iron curtain." Is it really so crazy to believe that the Soviets would support pro-communist ideologues in American culture making institutions such as academia and the media? Essentially they use liberalism against itself by exploiting free speech to promote their own ideology. It's similar to what we see today with Muslims using free speech as a platform to promote fundamentally illiberal ideas such as sharia law.
America is becoming socially communist and its government isn't too far behind
Nolan Parker
I agree yet many people seem to think that this happened "organically" within American culture without any outside influence and to suggest otherwise gets you labeled as a nut-job conspiracy theorist.
What gives???
Lucas Turner
Where's the communism in the US? The very mention of the word is like evoking the nazis and you are imediately labelled unamerican.
Jonathan Fisher
believing the Soviets funded socialist movements in the united States is very different from believing the yuri bezmenov meme about a cadre of kgb officers providing academics a script to follow. also the latter takes a shit on how good the cia/FBI counter intelligence programs were at dismantling socialist organizations that were legitimately dangerous (like the black panthers)
William Stewart
The Soviet Union with all its nukes and the rise of the military-industrial complex through Cold War proxy battles, the threat of nuclear armageddon in Cuba, the Civil Rights movement, anti-Communist hysteria, crack and heroin epidemics, or rising inequality and the impact of the drug war couldn't destablize America but somehow "SJWs" on Twitter whining about muh patriarchy and trannies on magazine covers can? Color me surprised when I look at /pol/ infographics and dismiss them as tinfoil conspiracies. And I swear I've seen this same infographic before except it blamed the Jews for everything.
Xavier Bailey
I don't claim to know the specific people involved but why is it so ridiculous to believe that academia was infiltrated by communists?
It's not an either/or situation, all those things you listed AND the SJW movement had foreign support. If you were to trace the trajectory of American culture you would have to be blind not to notice a hard turn to the left with the what is literally called the "cultural REVOLUTION." Do you honestly believe that the Soviets weren't supporting the anti-Vietnam war movement?
Liam Parker
The sjw movement of today came from Bush's years in power. And the word revolution does not belong to communists, it means a sudden, radical, or complete change. I don't deny Soviets trying to undermine the society in the US, but to make them the boogeyman and claiming they are behind all the leftist movements that exist today is overly simplified and inaccurate. This sounds like todays meme of Russia influencing rightwing movements in Europe and the US.
Ryan Adams
I agree that the SJW movement achieved cultural prominence during the Bush years but it didn't just appear out of nowhere. Already in the 70s academia was pushing to normalize homosexuality and it was in 1973 that it was removed from the DSM. Also lets not forget the sexual revolution and the women's liberation movement which also have their origins in the 60s and 70s. These developments laid the foundation which allowed SJWism to become mainstream during the Bush years.
Furthermore you agree that the Soviets were trying to undermine American society but then say that it's wrong to make them a "boogeyman." Do you think they were going half-speed or something? If you admit that they were influencing American culture then that means they were certainly involved in supporting all the social upheaval from the mid 20th-century onwards. It's not like they didn't have the resources or the willpower to do so, they were the second most powerful nation on the planet.
Logan Ross
>This sounds like todays meme of Russia influencing rightwing movements in Europe and the US.
Because such theories vastly overstate the competence and resources of the Soviet Union to accomplish said goal.
It's nothing more than trying to find hidden strings where none exist.
>b-but muh progressive agenda ruining everything
Humanity is naturally progressive. If not we would still be Hunter gatherers or living in the feudal system. Christians and Enlightenment thinkers were the SJW left of their days with muh all men are equal in god's eyes and god given rights. Is it really a shock that these ideas form in places where ideas and knowledge are concentrated and exchanged?
Those conspiracy theories sound ridiculous because they are. It's the same as all conspiracy theories and /pol/ memes are just as bad as the liberals they hate. They just spin shit up to conform to their own world view because reality is whatever they want it to be.
Seriously consider that these are the same people that believed that all civilizations of significance were nordics, literally on the same level of WEWUZ, and try to take any shit they spout seriously.
No the Soviet Union didn't infiltrate all of the academic west to ruin the perfect capitalist utopia. Take your conspiracy theories to /x/ where they belong.
Austin Cruz
>muh inevitable progression of history go away
Josiah Jackson
>Humanity is naturally progressive.
>Christians and Enlightenment thinkers were the SJW left of their days
Sebastian Garcia
>implying the Enlightenment wasn't a progressive revolution Progressivism is relative.
Adrian Ortiz
>vastly overstate the competence and resources of the Soviet Union to accomplish said goal.
How so? There are always malcontents in any society, all the Soviets had to do was identify who they were in America and then provide them with financial and logistical support. Not that hard really.
Gabriel Brooks
The FBI disproved Trumps ties to Russia.
David Perez
...
Ethan Gutierrez
...
Jose James
Where's your evidence that the Soviets didn't fund radical elements of American society during the Cold War?
Charles Moore
...
Daniel Moore
>provide them with logistical and financial support >all they had to do is
I don't think you understand just how large said breach would have to be to actually sway Western academia in any meaningful way.
You're talking about the influencing and secret financial backing of tens of thousands of people for years and years to actually see any kind of shift.
You really think the Soviet Union pulled that off?
I don't think you'd need tens of thousands, you would just need to have the most influential institutions such as the IVs and then the others would naturally follow suit because they wouldn't want to seem out of step with the prestige. And yes I definitely believe the Soviets would be willing to devote decades of concerted effort to do so.
I got a laugh out of the muh property in the bottom right desu.
Jose Bell
>Posts one professor who ceased being a Communist in 1945 >Who plainly says being a part of the group didn't confirm being a member of the party >Left because he didn't agree with the party's eventual message
In your own article you've posted why such efforts are utterly shit and doomed to failure.
>were willing I never asked if you thought they were willing. I'm sure they were.
I asked if you actually think they accomplished such a mission. You then post an article highlight a failure of said mission.
Ian Lee
...
Easton Hughes
>Where's the communism
For the corporate elite and the military. Everybody else is just told to work harder.
Juan Hall
>marx is white >being corrected because it's 'wrong' Good job admitting Jews ain't white.
Charles Turner
...
Kayden Campbell
>Good job admitting Jews ain't white.
Leo Young
The point of the article is to demonstrate that there were active communist cells in academia not that this one guy was representative of all of them.
Again many dismiss the notion of communist subversion out of hand as something that is crazy and could never happen but we have evidence that it did happen. What is up for debate is how extensive and effective it was.
Ryder Diaz
>The point of the article is to demonstrate that there were active communist cells in academia not that this one guy was representative of all of them.
Good
Grayson Ramirez
Don't fault me, I'm just going off of what /leftypol/ made and it literally stated that the claim 'Marx is white' is being corrected for being wrong.
Jaxson Morgan
Fuck off, you are jusr as bad as the pol variety redditors who infest this site
Xavier Thomas
Is it ironic that this image, in of itself is a strawman?
David James
You're so fucking unfunny jesus fucking christ
John Adams
I always admired those tiddies in this pic
Julian Ward
Except it was egalitarianism,which is direct opposition to "feminism" (read as feminazis) due to it's intrinsic nature of equal treatment, rather than "protected classes" and the like.
Joseph Brooks
This is the entire thread in a nutshell
Austin Morgan
Not an argument of my unfunniness.
Kayden Sanchez
Because trying to get a group of people to do the same thing is like herding cats
Wyatt Lewis
same t.b.h.
Jaxon Wright
...
Camden Jackson
It goes into tinfoil land when it becomes, "Everything I don't like is part of the Marxist Cultural infiltration."
>I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. Cuz, at that point, that's what you sound like.
There was a much stronger communist movement in America before the USSR than after, so if anything, they were failing miserably. The Red Scare put the lockdown on that "infiltration" and a whole lot beyond it.
And to claim that the KGB, to this day, is fueling LGBTQURTAXSZY acceptance is just pure insanity. You can trace the organic growth of most of that movement, and the movements it piggy backed on.
Especially when you consider, even today, most Americans have no idea what "socialism" or "communism" (or even "progressivism" or "liberalism") is, and basically treat them as curse words to be applied to any social or political movement they don't approve of, resulting in a sort of doublespeak even George Orwell would have been astounded by.
But now you no doubt think I'm a paid part of the conspiracy, so there ya go.
Leo Jenkins
It's meant to dismantle SJWs dude...
Owen Adams
Except no
Jace Long
Except yes
Adam Stewart
Except no
Justin Rodriguez
Except yes
Evan Nelson
Except no
Gavin Price
Except yes
William Richardson
There is evidence of minor cells that fell apart almost before they even really began, most of them before the 1950's.
There isn't evidence of any sort of large scale Communist infiltration of Western academia and media. In fact the opposite is true as said in this thread. There was a larger Communist movement in the States before the Soviet Union tried getting involved.
Sure you can debate it but you walk a fine line between debating and tin foil territory.
David Clark
[citation needed]
Jaxson Sullivan
Except no
Jose Gomez
Except maybe?
Christian Lee
>but I've never really understood what is so crazy about it. The problem is it imagines the US is passive the whole time while being "corrupted" by its enemies, it vastly overestimates the reach and power of its enemy, all other factors or actors are ignored (such as the CIA despite them doing plenty of meddling at home and abroad), and it is usually followed by "everything I don't like is connected" type theories. Conspiracy theories like Prouty's "The Secret Team" are better simply because they acknowledge people other than intellectuals matter and there is a lot of shit going on in the world. In many right wing conspiracy theories only intellectuals matter (and only a certain type at that) and you can find frequent mention that communists have infiltrated the government despite the left's many, many setbacks.
Jason Stewart
Except not really
Josiah Carter
Except sorta kinda
Bentley Cruz
Except I don't think so
Daniel Gutierrez
Basically this Also I'm calling samefag on this shit...
Justin Morales
Except I think you should
Carter Hernandez
What else do you call a theory with no substance or solid proof, that tries to lump a load of different social events from vatious decades and cultures that can clearly be traced back to other "conventional" origins, into a single comic-book tier plan with the goal to explain the current politics of the 1st world?
Oliver Green
Except no
Lucas Rodriguez
>haha dude the soviets would never do something like that i mean supporting various social upheaval movements occurring within their primary geopolitical rival? lol thats just crazy bro sounds like something out of a comic book could never happen irl haha
Christopher Barnes
Except... Wait, yer right this time. As you were.
Tyler Cooper
Well I stand corrected.
Dylan Russell
...
Adrian Roberts
>>haha dude the soviets would never do something like that i mean supporting various social upheaval movements occurring within their primary geopolitical rival? lol thats just crazy bro sounds like something out of a comic book could never happen irl haha
Really you're desperate and you should just shut up at this point desu
Owen Flores
Yet somehow you don't blame this for such phenomenon as the religious right, various secession movements, various market crashes, or the various heavily armed militias ready to take down the government during "The Great Happening", and various other more obvious, more direct, and more effective threats to US hegemony.
Juan King
this is literally the opposite of communism
Ian Turner
And finally in the face of actual discourse his facade fails and we fall back into tinfoil memes
Shit thread
Grayson Mitchell
>if it sounds like something they would do then THEY TOTALLY DID IT AND THE JOOS ARE HIDING IT
Asher Hill
>Humanity is naturally progressive the beliefs of current "progressives" aren't necessarily synonymous with progress though, it's just the way they chose to brand themselves
Justin Hall
I agree user. Once a foreign government chooses to support an ideology in a foreign land, i just inevitably moves the culture further and further in this direction.
Hearts of Iron IV isn't just the most realistic strategy game, it's the most realistic vision of human societies ever conceived.
Adrian Nelson
how so? the user i was responding to did exactly what i was complaining about in the op which is to dismiss the idea of foreign subversion as something that is crazy and could never happen. we do have evidence that the kgb was actively trying to manipulate foreign governments and this shouldn't surprise anyone because that is literally what an intelligence agency does (the cia does the same thing). if you need a link here's one:
(((They))) have always done them at to people who question the narrative.
Carson Butler
>how so?
Lucas Phillips
There is a difference between saying there were attempts at espionage within the US by the Soviet Union and that there was some massive infiltration of American academia that's swayed the political thought of the country. One is an interesting topic of history and conversation the other is completely unfounded, tinfoil nonsense.
>Marx theorizes that socialism will arise naturally to offset the problems created by capitalism >Socialism begins to arise mainly because of the problems caused by a capitalist market >ITS DA GOMMIES FAULT
Or maybe, Marx actually had a point to his theory.
Oliver Lewis
>implying modern day progressives are in any shape or form like enlightenment thinkers >Today's progressives push for abolition of free speech, self defense, trail by jury, patriotism/nationalism, a shutdown of scientific research proving biological differences between races Ya no today's "progressives" are just communists with a makeover
Daniel Martin
You say "communists with a makeover" like it's a bad thing
Alexander Anderson
>Free speech An issue but one relegated to a minority of "progressives" mainly college kids who will grow out of it. They're just the latest flower power.
>Self defense Kek
>Patriotism/nationalism That's being thrown out of the window because of globalism, something Western capitalists want very much.
>trial by jury Source?
>A shutdown of race pseudo science Again, kek
Ryder Perry
>Marx theorizes that socialism will arise naturally to offset the problems created by capitalism >Socialism begins to arise mainly because of the problems caused by a capitalist market Except that's not what happened, socialism was promoted by ideologues who used it as a means to get power. There's a reason it did not rise up in the United States until academia was taken over (hence why you see basically zero conservative professors, it's like a Stalinist Soviet Union, only one form of opinion is acceptable) T. Someone who works in a university >ITS DA GOMMIES FAULT Yep pretty much
Ayden Sanchez
>T. Someone who works in a university
Joshua Wright
How can American culture be manipulated if they hold the cultural hegemony over the world?
Isaac Long
>theres a reason why you didn't see it in the US until academia was taken over
Except there were far greater movements for communism and socialism before the Soviet Union even became a global power.
In fact a great deal of it died shortly after the end of world war 2, when the Soviet Union tried to actually influence Western socialist and Communist movements.
>academia was taken over Citation needed
Xavier Turner
>There's a reason it did not rise up in the United States until academia was taken over
what the fuck are you talking about, the peak of american communism was pre and during the russian revolution
Easton Reed
>An issue but one relegated to a minority of "progressives" mainly college kids who will grow out of it. They're just the latest flower power. expect when Hillary Clinton says she wants to shut down sites like beritbart That you know progressives in a position of authority doing that >kek Do people not have the right to defend themselves? >That's being thrown out of the window because of globalism, something Western capitalists want very much. no it has to do with indoctrination in our schools about being "global citizens" I was myself brainwashed with this filth when I was young. Also ya CORPORATISTS (it's not capitalism when the government bails you out) want it. >Source google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/12/juries-no-place-rape-trials-victims-deserve-unprejudiced-justice-judge?0p19G=e?client=safari
>A shutdown of race pseudo science >Again, kek If it is only "pseudo science" why do we need laws to disprove it? Wouldn't the best way to handle it be to disprove it? Unless you can't do that...
Joseph Russell
> Soviet Union collapsed > They done that by themselves! XD > SJW now is part of american culture > Wake up sheeple, totally communist plot! D: It is true that no culture exist in vacuum, but States aren't really the innocent victim here. Competition of the ideas is nothing view in the history.
Asher Perez
>expect when Hillary Clinton says she wants to shut down sites like beritbart
So....when people are enriched in peer review and become highly educated...they tend to be...leftist?
0_o mindfuck
Jaxon Butler
This but Veeky Forums has a lot of very indoctrinated neckbeards on it that say that's "conspiracy theory"
Tyler Lopez
Okay, here is the question. Why President didn't like spend some cash to counter KGB attempts? It isn't like you can't create say New Your school to promote classical traditions, if you really want.
