Is it time to stop blaming Serbs for everything what happened in former Yugoslavia

It makes no sense to blame them anymore when everybody else was as guilty. I take quite an interest in this subject and from whichever angle I'm looking at it, there is not enough material to blame only them. The book London for Immigrant suckers offers the most concise explanation of what actually happened. Why should Croats and muslims, for example, be seen as victims

because milosevic openly started political maneuvering to put Serbs in a dominant position with full support of Serbian nationalists at the time knowing full well it would cause the entire house of cards to cave in

the idea of "heh Serbia dindu nuffin we're all equally to blame" is always conveniently pushed by nobody except for Serbs

yeah, but the idea that Serbs are only to blame is pushed by Western media, or to be precise, by the media of the countries who participated in Yugoslavia demise. Serbia was the easiest scapegoat.

Name one thing wrong in this world that isnt the Serbs fault.

Bosnian Serb (aka literally Hitler) here, AMA.

It's not that we were the easiest scapegoat, it's the fact that the Serb political elite decided to completely ignore the outside world and forgo all lobbying and PR work that was being done by our opponents, thereby putting us both into an economical AND media isolation.

The media, of course, chose the "le evil surrbs killing nice dindu nuffin multi-culti bosniyaks&croats" instead of the "asshole croats vs. kinda smaller asshole bosniaks vs. bigger assholes serbs all killing each other because they're cavemen stuck in the 18th century"

Additionally, we were massively uncooperative when it came to privatisation and token gestures to the UN, which gave us little good will with the western powers.

>oh yeah, then y arnt croats and bosniaks and albanians defening their enemies ha ha gotcha chetnik scum!!1!

does it hurt being this retarded or did you learn to deal with it?

protip: u can't

t. Hillary Clinton

>Serb political elite decided to completely ignore the outside world and forgo all lobbying and PR work
top kek

back to watching weight of chains momcilo

Are you just gonna throw out a half-hearted attempt at implying I'm some sort of simple-minded war crime-denying redneck or are you going to make an actual argument?

>implaying it isnt

Weren't you the ones playing nazis and putting people into holiday camps?.

Are you referring to war crimes or expansionism?

War crimes were committed and interment (*cough* concentration) camps were built by all sides.
(I am, however, willing to admit that most of the guilt for war crimes does sadly fall upon our side)

As for the other possibility, i.e. expansionism, no. Most of the areas held by the Bosnian and Croatian Serbs did have a Serb majority, if not back then then before the Second World War.

>it's a Serb war crimes denial thread

Even the Hutus weren't stupid enough to shoot at NATO jets.

The author of a book above (it's not a political book at all, but there are some elements) argue that Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia didn't want to be a part of the independent Bosnia and Croatia, but to stay in Yugoslavia. Therefore, some border adjustment was needed but neither EU nor America allowed border changing. There was no need for the war and if the borders were adjusted it would make the perfect sense.

No it wouldn't make perfect fucking sense, it would make no sense at all, borders upon Croatia and Bosnia sit upon today are historical borders, with 1000 years of history behind them, you can't just "adjust" them. Bosniaks, and especially Croats would never allow Serbs to rip parts of their country just like that. As soon as Serbs decided they wanted parts of other people's countries war was a certainty. If they wanted to be in Yugoslavia they could always get the fuck out of Bosnia and Croatia and go live in Yugoslavia, which would be better for everyone anyways.

>didn't want to be a part of the independent Bosnia and Croatia, but to stay in Greater Serbia

Neither Bosnia nor Croatia joined Yugoslavia as a sovereign country with Internationally recognized borders. In WWI, there was only one country - Serbia, everybody else was part of other Empires, so "1000 years of history behind them" doesn't count for much when it comes to borders. The International law doesn't recognize internal borders.

But you do realize moving the borders would've ultimately meant fucking over at least one of the other ethnic groups, right? It's just not that simple.

My girlfriend's family (mainly Bosniak) originates from an opstina 20 mins northwest of Sarajevo in what is technically the Republika Srpska, where there are, paradoxically, virtually no Serbs (less than 10%). There never has been any, either.

It's easy to draw lines on a map, from far away, and not have to think of the consequences, but you're forgetting that separating B&H into 3 nation states isn't even an option in the first place.

You think the situation is unstable now? Imagine if there were 3 separate and totally ungovernable states, with right around 50 enclaves and at least two angry, dissatisfied minority groups each, both constantly at odds with you and willing to secede to the two other states. No one would be in control over infrastructure, fresh water supply, electricity, borders... and a good third of your population would be free to do whatever the fuck they want, because enforcing the law is impossible. It would be a total nightmare.

Bosnia and Herzegovina is one hell of a bastard state, but the fact of the matter is: it just about works.

Wow, being this stupid
>it would never work
Republic of Srpska has all of the forementioned institutions already in place, Bosnia's decentralized in that way. The problem occurs when Bozniak Kangz want to consolidate power in Sarajevo. If the politicians could work out a deal, if let's say, tommorow, the two entities split- they would have power or water shortages, policing the population would go on, bussiness as usual, and if there were no chimp-outs on any side, you'd see Czeckoslovakia split v.2
It isn't impossible, only the political will lacks

Would NOT have power or water shortages

> Is it time to stop blaming Serbs for everything what happened in former Yugoslavia
No, it never will be.

But for what purpose?

None of the entities are ethnically homogeneous. There would be far more political instability, and you would have to spend an incredible amount of time and money to create two states - one of which is just going to join Serbia, making the Bosniaks and Croats in the RS extremely likely to start some shit. And with the stroke of a pen, you've just reignited the most deadly armed conflict in modern European history.

Everyone loses. It's not even a victory for the Serbs. You haven't solved jack shit.

Serbs are the scum of the earth. Funny how not only are they dindus, they even act like they were the victims now.

all sorts of shit happened in 89-91, and there was warmongering and stirring shit up on all sides, but overall, and in the wider context, it was caused by miloshević and great-serbia politics

it also started way back, with serbs pushing themselves into very position and every majority vote they could, even in places where they were minority, when the army command was not only completely serb but also mostly pro-serb in the milošević sense, when serb part of the party did their best to monopolise decisions and screw others over, etc... not that anione complained, if you complained youre a dirty nationalist

its also not a coincidence serbs started the fighting and were allready armed and organised when the war started, meaning basicaly they started the war

and then they lost the war and got fucked, and will never ever ever stop bullshiting about it till something even worse hits them, then they will combine it all up into one big victim narrative like they allways do and continue to bullshit

so yes, it was serbs fault

These are stereotypes pushed by the media and based on a subjective view which is far away from the reality. There was never great Serbia project, it's just a myth. Milosevic was the only non-nationalistic leader in that period.

Daily reminder that a decentralised Yugoslavia under the wise guidance of King Alexander would have been far superior than any of the present-day statelets that have sprung up since 1991.

It's time to stop blaming Croats for everything that happened on WW2. It makes no sense to blame them anymore when everybody else was as guilty. I take quite an interest in this subject and from whichever angle I'm looking at it, there is not enough material to blame only them. Why should Serbs be seen as victims?

See that OP, I can play this game too

no user, thats how it happened, belgrade systemicaly fucked up the realisation and implementation of the 1974 constitution, serbs controlled most of the army, most state institutions were either directly held by or othervise influenced by sebs, and serbs generaly did their best to dominate all the various forms of decision making on lower levels like workers councels and such

theres nothing subjective about it, serbs tried to run everiones lives and when others decided they had enough they went full retard and tried to realise 'greater-serbia' by force

and then they lost the war

>karlobag-ogulin-karlovac-virovitica

t. Serb trash

That's simply not true. Croats and non-Serbs also held major positions within the military hierarchy. State institutions were held by, surprise surprise, the state , and the state didn't represent, nor was represented only by the Serbs.

thats the point, thats how it was supposed to function, even more so, it was supposed to be a federation, with each republic having a degree of economic and financial autonomy, each nationality equaly represented within the paty, all state isntitutions being supra-national etc... except it didnt realy work that way, belgrade called the shots and serbs went out of their way to dominate everithing

>stay in Yugoslavia
AKA Greater Serbia.

Started politically maneuvering to put himself in power.
ftfy

It couldn't be more political instability than it's there already. RS is homogenous and obviously, a minority would have all rights guaranteed by the constitution. It's far better solution for everyone involved.

Sure, until the Serbs decide to commit genocide like they did in Kosovo, thinking noone could or would oppose them.

I don't know much about Kosovo, only that Serbs were fighting the terrorists who were supported by NATO. I didn't know that they committed genocide over there but if you say so...

The total estimated number of Albanian casualties (military+civilian) in the Kosovo war, which lasted for a 1 and a quarter years is a bit more than the number of CIVILIAN victims of the Srebrenica Genocide ("genocide") which lasted 2 whole fucking days.

Also, KLA committed just as horrific killings (even if in lower numbers) and expulsions of non-Albanians and non-compliant Albanians following the departure of the Yugoslav Army & police.

(Guess which ethnicities were allowed to return tho)

This

From what i understand there are very few incidents in the Yugoslav wars that could be classified as genocide and ethnic cleansing (the ones that stick out are Srebrenica and Operation storm).
But you have a lot of horrible war crimes, killing civilians, looting, raping, inhumane treatment and killing of POWs. And that a lot of crimes directed at civilians were conducted by paramilitary forces which were basically criminals even before the war, who were there for their own gain.

I think you should all refrain from overusing the term "genocide". The war crime is the most appropriate term if you talk about Srebrenica for example. In Kosovo, the crime was committed, of course, by the NATO and International Community.

Hey I read this book. I didn't get impression it defends Serbs, or anybody else for that matter. The main character doesn't care too much about anything apart of big boobs.

>mention that NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was way over the top
>people immediately get enraged, spout memes about nazi serb devuls bosniaks didnu nuffin

it's damn time to start blaming the IMF, the US and Germany for what happened in former Yugoslavia

Why do Westerners love robbing people of their agency so much like this?

We killed each other because nobody took the muliethnic bloc of Yugoslavs that proposed workable solutions to keep it all going toward the late 80s seriously.

t. Half Croat half Serb

The author of the book above blames them +UK but I don't think it makes any sense to blame countries responsible for all troubles in this world. They are too strong and powerful and they can afford not to care if you blame them. Serbia had no backing, therefore, the easiest scapegoat.

Im pretty sure its butthurt serbs blaming outsiders.

did the mujahideen ever leave bosnia

They stayed and introduced the Muslim youth to the radicalism.

Like the nazis, who are equally to blame for putting Hitler in power, the Serbs are rightfully to blame.

Since they don't acknowledge their own actions and claim it didn't happen, its even worse.

What exactly did you say? To blame for what? To acknowledge which action? Be more specific.

Yeah, the only things he ever does dwell on are tits :)

>serbs went out of their way to dominate everithing
>SFRY was controlled until the last decade by a Croat/Slovene
>his inner circle was exclusively Croat/Slovene after the ouster of Rankovic in the 60s
>Tito explicitly created a separate Macedonian state and AP Vojvodina and Kosovo to weaken Serbia's position
>Croats frequently complain, maspok protests, get concessions

There is no worse meme about Yugoslavia than that the Serbs held any significant power prior to the late 80s.

"why didn't tito the evil croatian ustasha allow us to destroy Yugoslavia and get the ball rolling toward greater Serbia when he was still alive" : the post

>placing words in my mouth

Name one thing I said that wasn't true. Name one thing I said that DISAGREED with Tito's tactics.

I fully agree it had to be done because Serbia and Serbs were just too large/numerous. But to then go around and say not only wasn't Serbia nerfed by Tito and the leadership, but they somehow ran SFRY prior to the late 80s is the height of idiocy.

>Is it time to stop blaming Serbs for everything
no.