Studying Law

I'm not in the industry but from what I've seen in the paper over the past year the job market for lawers is fucking terrible here in Aus.

I'm gonna go against the grain here and say it is worthwhile, even outside of the T14 schools. Law has been hit hard after the 2008 recession and hasn't fully recovered and likely never will. However, because of that, the pool of applicants is diluted. Hiring numbers have picked up faster than application numbers which have been decreasing steadily.

So much of law is how much work you're going to put in. If you go to a T14 school you can graduate in the top ~50% of your class and get a nice gig (money wise).

However, if you get a decent score on your LSAT, you can get a full ride / nearly full ride at a reputable regional school. That's the info that usually gets left out - if you don't go to a T14 school, don't just go to the highest ranked school you get into, go to the reputable regional school where you can go for free.

For instance, I got into UPenn with a minimal scholarship. UPenn is tremendously expensive. However, the Philly region has a few other schools where, if you look at the numbers, the top 15-20% of the class gets hired into the same big firms as the Ivies. Local connections are important to these mid-tier cities. I graduated in the top 5% of my class and got into the same cushy firm as my Penn counterparts, while paying nothing.

The important thing is: do your research. Philly, NYC, DC, LA, the Texas markets, all have primary schools but also reputable regional schools that place a startling number of kids into large law firms. If you can get a full / close to full ride at one of these schools, and are confident that you can put in the substantial work (I studied at least 6 hours a day, on weekends much more, my first year, outside of class) to graduate in the top 10% of your class, then go for it. Just know you're gonna have to work your ass off.

Cheers mate but as mentioned above I am in Australia. Appreciate ya though

>Industry will be taken over in 10 years completely by ai anyways
CS fag here. I'd give it 20-30 years for real AI to take over. Possibly 50+ if there's any considerable opposition to it.

Im thinking of a bachelor of law. Go to anu usyd monash any g8 aus uni.

Be prepared for awful aus salary of 75k incl super for top tier big law working 80 hrs a week and thats even if you can make it. If you have no passion for law after your first year dont do it. Even have 5 years you might be on 100k but there are easier jobs with better work life balance that pay just as much only with less prestige. Finance, project manager, oil gas machine operator truck driver.

Coming up on the end of my degree (JD), OP.

Went to a non-G8 uni after completing my meme degree in psychology, still managed to get a grad gig with a top tier that is going to pay significantly above average for a commercial firm in this area. Had an average mark of 78. Went pretty hard at the extra-cirriculars (legal comps/law soc). But I didn't have prior commercial practice experience outside of pre-penultimate programs (Allens Links/KWM), with all of my experience being in the pro bono sector. Did have decent overseas government internship experience though.

Isn't wrong about our salaries being comparably terrible. Though I wouldn't say that the work culture is as bad as US/UK markets.

Doubt that you wouldn't be breaking 100k pre-tax after 5 years unless you were working at one of the lesser big 6 firms and shit at your job though.

Personally, I don't think your school matters too much if you're aiming for the real top tier firms (KWM/HSF/Allens). Do go to a metropolitan uni if possible, but that's more to do with the job opportunities than your actual education.

I'm using commercial practice as an example as if you can make it in that, you can pretty much make it any of the other sectors.

That said, which state you in? The commercial job market varies a fair amount depending on your state (both salary and entry-wise).

I'm in Tassie and looking at a Graduate Entry Bachelor of Laws with UTAS after just finishing up communications at La Trobe - fucking anything has to be better than La Trobe was.

"just graduate 10% bro"
lol

Law school is where people go when they realize they got a worthless degree and decide to double down. Same with grad school. Just come to terms with the fact that you've wasted a great deal of time and money, and that all your work is still ahead of you. Find the best job you can and pay off your debt.

Yeah this should be added, if you can get a serious scholarship OR T14 do Law but otherwise hell no.

Robots taking over is bullshit. Nobody is going to accept a machine handling any trial or jury trial. Nobody is going to go to a computer and hand their raw data and wait 1 second for GUILTY to appear on the screen. Or have 12 jurors log in to a website to vote on a case in their underwear with jizz loads all over their legs and push KILL THIS PERSON DEATH PENALTY KTHXBAI

I think it will just kill Law Librarians/Paralegals. Robots will do all that in 10 times the speed. It may take away too many gray areas though because everyone will have literally all the information about anything possible.

So there will be less demand for lawyers.

i'll expand on my comment here since it may not make sense to someone who hasn't been through law school

law school grades are incredibly random. in-cre-di-bly.
you'll meet ivy kids who gun 12 hours a day just to crack median, and retards who can barely fog a mirror but know how to /kill/ an exam

and you don't know if you're one of the former or one of the latter
you may think you do, but you don't.

so NEVER go to law school thinking you'll be top 10%

Haha, one of my classmates is from La Trobe, he absolutely hated it. I'd definitely recommend Grad entry > JD though - it's way cheaper. There is a bit of a 'flavour of the month' thing going on with JDs atm, but the extra 30k or so on HELP sucks.

Can't really say I know much about Tasmanian firms, sorry - I'd imagine there would be a couple of mid-tier firms operating down there, but for the most part, the bigger clients (like Hydro Tas, etc) outsource inter-state. I'd probably recommend considering another state if you're looking for the higher-end commercial practice.

Thanks man. Yeah, what can I say, I'm not hoping for any miracles and I'll settle for an average job down the road, but holy fuck La Trobe was a mistake.

I post this 100x.

I have lawyers in the family. IMO it sucks, and the only good part is the paycheck.

But mainly: If you think you wanna be a lawyer go work at a firm as a paralegal. Do it for a few weeks. After that you still want law then go to law school.

Perhaps more than other other job, TV makes law out to be something it totally is not.

Probably 5% of a lawyers actual work time will be in a courtroom. Most of the rest is behind a desk looking at files or writing documents.

> The inflation of law diplomas

I think it's pretty bad. There's way too many and not enough jobs.

Thanks to the glut you have some law degree kids starting at $40k a year. Jesus you could probably bag groceries and make that.

Why did he hate latrobe?

>retards who can barely fog a mirror but know how to /kill/ an exam

there's this one kid that doesn't listen in class or read or take notes and then just crams a month before finals and kills it

fuck him

That's any class.

not rlly law is graded on a curve on a test that can be reasonably subjective to an extent

it's like like math or hard science

it's not like*

Plenty of government department positions start around 50k and go up to 88k (as far as I've seen; that was ASIS) and are cruisey af. I've got a couple of mates who got gigs at the ATO, and those stories about them packing up at 4:51 are legit. In-house counsel numbers are also on the rise, and are similarly decent gigs if you aren't keen on the massive hours.

Pro-bono sector isn't too bad, but be prepared to work for shit clients. Both my CLC and legal aid experiences convinced me that the sector, although essential, isn't for me. Props to the people who live it, but it's fucked.

Plenty of people seem to think that all you can do with a law degree is law, which simply isn't true. People go into IB, corporate advisory, policy positions in government, etc.

Is probs good advice, though it can be a bit difficult to get that experience without the connections or through studying law.

Well shit you could even assist a lawyer for free.

Think about it, you're gonna commit 3 years and about $100k to get that degree. Even if you assist in a law office for free for one month, it's a good call to be sure of what you are getting into.

Lotsa kids these days just pick a degree that sounds cool and go for it.

Sad.

From my personal experience at La Trobe, there's just fuck all infrastructure and - depending what you study of course - the whole place just feels stretched thin. There's a tradeoff when they accept so many admissions but don't have adequate funding to accommodate it all. I'm not saying don't go, La Trobe's reputation is "ok",, I'm just saying don't expect amazing facilities and resources.

That's the thing though, there's no shortage of people looking to do so over here. It's definitely worth doing if you can get it, but be prepared to be knocked back a lot.

Agree that practically everyone just goes for a degree that sounds cool and shit, but I don't blame undergrads - it's hard to know what you're legit interested in when high school is fundamentally different to uni and uni is usually fundamentally different to actual work.

It's a completely different skill to practically anything else you'll study at uni. Knowing the content will get you 50% at most.

Comparatively, I bombed my undergrad, but am killing it in law. Am actually applying myself instead of just partying though, so take that with a grain of salt.

Practically,
It's the same problem at loads of smaller and regional university. You get individual differences between schools, but generally speaking, it's the same shit.

did you do a bachelor of law at latrobe? I dont know whether to do a jd or bachelor. Apparently it doesnt matter if you have good grades also latrobe law seems to have a shit reputation. Most big law firm alumni are from usyd anu melb or monash. Very small percentage are latrobe.

My NSW cohort was 50% UNSW, 20% USYD, 20% UTS, 10% everyone else.

Top tier doesn't care where you're from if you can convince them that you're capable.