/civ4xg/ - Endless, Stellaris, Civilization and 4X

is there more to this /deepestlore/ wiz?

You eject them to stop pirates from spawning and free the system. I think they spawned friendly pirates in previous versions but it made Vodyani too strong because they could succ the shit out of them with zero worry. Still I assume the faction will disappear if you succ all of their pops so there's no point in ejecting them

Who will do the honours?

I've been (un)lucky enough to spawn directly next to gas giant-dwelling minor factions as Vodyani. You can definitely succ a minor civ's population to 0 and the civ will remain. It's near-pointless because your leecher will have to wait around waiting for the pop to come back.

I'm Mr. King Dice.

anyone up for a multiplayer match?
wanna try out my minor-faction species in multiplayer, made a few tweaks to it

Riftborn bullying all the other Riftborn with a...science victory? Hmm, ok then.

Maybe it's because I was previously playing Horatio, but Sophon's start situation seems extremely good.
>5 science 3 production homeworld
>guaranteed 50% xenolinguistics research boost unless you specifically add a custom civ who starts with it
>enhanced production building that also gives +10 for cold, meaning wider variety of planets that can contribute to a strong production system
>starting pops all give big science bonuses
>3 laws
>can cram exam for +9 science, can species stability for +10 dust, can dirty hands for -20% production cost on improvements
>can law cheese by toggling dirty hands on when improvements will finish then toggle it back off
>can beeline stage 3 techs (hyperium lasers, titanium armor) almost instantly
>empire-wide 15% ship discount from very first quest
>can stack that with another 15% ship discount (additive?) from militarism on turn 20
>starting officer has +15 science at stage 1 and fleet-wide +20% damage at stage 2
>good ship quality
>top tier theme music
>very easy quest tree that can give another +100% production (jesus fucking christ) on hot or +100% science on cold
I don't see how they could possibly be called bad. Sure they don't have the Craver start but they're perfectly competitive in the earlygame and can ramp into being gods by like turn 40. The best part is that the absurd climate bonus from their quest actually makes terraforming worth it.

the guy from last thread didn't really look too deep into them methinks
honestly, their biggest weakness is that they have anemic defensive ability, and that they rely on being ahead. if you turn off passive win conditions and the game grinds to a halt, or if they get bogged down the entire game by a bad spawn or hyperaggressive neighbors, the more industrial factions will be able to catch up in technology - invalidating their entire playstyle of "extreme quality from superior technology"

Pathfinders is a waste of 25 points

>starting officer has +15 science at stage 1 and fleet-wide +20% damage at stage 2
You know that it only applies to the fleet he's actually assigned to, right? Not every fleet you have.

They are pretty good at early game aggression actually, and by the time other factions catch up in techs you'll have caught up in industry too

>first time playing vodyani
>get an amazing start with two minor factions, one of which has 3 colonizable planets and a garden of eden
>nearby nebula for +50 influence
>do dumb shit because I never played vods and feel like I fucked everything up by turn 50
>didn't save on turn 1

I know I posted this already but...

>Orbitally bombard planet
>Send ten clone armies to the surface
>Realise I forgot to add attachments and the enemy was more prepared then expected
>Retreat armies at the last minute to heal in orbit
>Reinvade the planet one month later with full health
>Win invasion because enemy couldn't heal their armies nor could they repel my orbiting fleets

How do we fix Stellaris ground combat?

you're not wrong; its best advantage is making your science ships and settlers very fast (as there are several methods to make fleets faster than with pathfinders without wasting traits on it), but you can achieve a similar effect for relatively cheap with the star boogie bill, which factions that want lots of science ships will usually have access to anyways
honestly, i feel like a ton of the traits in ES2 are very poorly priced; the biggest example of this is the minor faction pops, which are arbitrarily priced at either 10 or 5 points each. this wouldn't be that bad if it took into consideration their strengths, but extremely powerful pops like the pilgrims (get a law at 50 pops that lets you see the location, colors, and composition of EVERY FLEET IN THE GAME, as well as marking the location of every system they fly over as well) cost 5 while weak pops like the niris (get +10 approval on every system at 50 pops)
i also feel like the start modifiers are priced too cheaply; they should all be 15 points, with strange-but-bad giving 15 extra points
>sophons are really good at early aggression
when i said hyperaggressive neighbors, i meant cravers and vodyani
AKA, "drown you in fleets bigger and cheaper than you could ever afford" and "arkslol"
>you'll have cought up in industry
it is literally impossible to catch up to riftborn in industry once they get on an even tech ground as you, because all of their pops flat out produce way more industry than you ever could; a similar problem can be found with cravers on undepleted planets
riftborn ship schematics are also infinitely stronger than the sophon lineup

>while weak pops like the niris (get +10 approval on every system at 50 pops) cost 10
fixed

Sophons can warmonger extremely well. You just need to leverage their extra science early on to make up for your mediocre production start compared to riftborn, cravers, UE, etc. Once you have a populated planet with the Hot bonus you have the best production in the game. +20 industry per pop with AI Labor alone, let alone the fact Hot planets have naturally high industry to begin with, and that's just a tier 3 tech, a tier 1 colonization, and a quest you can do in under 40 turns.

None of the vanilla races are point efficient. At least Pathfinder is useful compared to Guardians and Fearless warriors, or UE just straight up not using 1/3rd of their points.

He gets that bonus at level 6, way before multiple fleets are even a factor.

pls no shitphons

> ayys telling you that your daughter looks like a bargain sex slave
bantz/10

I have no problem with armies auto-healing in space or with orbital supremacy preventing armies healing on the ground.
The problem with army combat in Stellaris is that even if you changed both of those it would still be unintersting, uninteractive micro.
But the same is true of Stellaris fleet combat.

You're confusing pathfinders for extra movement points, pathfinders reveal the length of unexplored starlines which I consider to be completely useless
At least movement points work for the whole game

If you scout an early Vodyani or Craver you can skip the first tier of Empire tree and research your attack ships immediately, and Sophons have a pretty good attack ship (6 slots 2k HP and 4 move compared to for example 6 slots 1.8k HP and 1 move on the Voidborn attack ship, 3 move difference basically meaning you have a built-in engine for no industry/slot cost)

Prioritizing military will also get you down your quest tree quicker so the economic loss is equalized somewhat by getting you closer to your uber industry. Still, arks are just silly in general and cravers are cravers so there's only so much you can do, being able to compete against UE/Lumeris/Voidborn and bully Horatio while having superior scouting and a powerful mid and lategame is still fantastic.

Also Pathfinder is the trait that reveals all lanes connected to your system, the 2 movement is a different one.

the issue isn't that you have inferior fleets very early on; as you mentioned yourself, their small attack ship is actually decently statted
the issue is that you don't have good enough industry to fend off these early aggressors without seriously gimping your system development in favor of building ships - you have relatively weak early industry as it is, while cravers have amazing early FIDSI gain overall plus a turn 2-4 coordinator and vodyani have better industry plus arks. you can't just wait them out either, since your ground troops severely underperform.

>How do we fix Stellaris ground combat?
I'm not sure you can, in a Real Time 4x game, without massively taking the focus off the wider galaxy.

Why doesnt the AI never take into account your production capabilites when declaring war?

>i have 3 planets to your 8, but have 6 more military ships. time for war!
>oh no, my pathetic fleet was crushed just by the fleet used for spamming probes, and now 3 times more are blockading my shit
>whatever, i'll still refuse truce so that faggot will be burdened by my shitty planets for the rest of the game.
>repeat every 30 turn by different factions

And somehow i'm the bad guy.
It's even worse that they get buttblasted even if you fart inside their territory (but they will happily suck all the curiosity out of your borders and even blockade shit yet you cant tell THEM to fuck off, unless you slap their shit in, which also upsets them) so you wont be able to make peace or ally with them wtihout also having an overwhelming military, at which point you might as well just wipe the shits anyway.

When i just pulled out of a factions gaping anus, still hard and looking for a new hole to ravage, they should be falling over themselfs to avoid beign the next target, especially if the peace/alliance is offered.

its actually really horrifying how much firepower is involved here

>that fucking line
Space is three dimensional goddamnit

>Riftborn all random
>Young Galaxy
>Lava systems as far as the eye can see

>five planet system of lava and desert
>Riftborn military guardian governor (it was peacetime)
>Jadonyx
Wish I still had a save of that playthrough

Sophons produce 34 industry turn 1 compared to 37 for a Terran homeworld with no inherent industry boost (UE start, Unfallen start, etc), they don't start with Xenolinguistics like UE and Cravers but in exchange they get a superior Industry building that grants additional +10 on cold, meaning they not only get the 30 industry start but they also have a wider variety of planets that can show up in their home system for another +20 or 30 industry (tundra and boreal respectively without bringing other techs into the picture) not to mention superior industry in systems that have cold planets in general.

Most importantly, starting as Scientists means they start with access to a law that gives a 20% discount on improvements, so they'll actually complete their infrastructure within a turn of the UE while having a head start on their next item from while they were researching it.

Sophons have great production, the things they suck at are food, dust, and influence. The dust problem keeps them from just vomiting colonies everywhere and influence is ironically the main thing that keeps them from just killing everybody outright. The best answer I can find to it is needing to convert to militarism, which essentially limits their warmonger capacity to turn 40 onward.

>You are now the Sovereign of the Remnants on Omdor
uhh...what? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN
(ES2)

I don't know either. I've had neighbors sovereign minor factions before and I just assimilated them all the same.

It means that you have the most influence with them and can do special things like migration or have them train up minor faction ships for you.

Man, ES2 really needs an ingame encyclopaedia or something. I'm pretty fucking sure that some things are never mentioned, like Vodyani being able to work all planets with 1 pop.

>1 planet system
>5 slot desert with adamantian and jadonyx average deposits
Would you take it?

>make game full of complicated mechanics with zero documentation
>make a meme wiki full of concept art instead of actual information, thus preventing anyone from bothering making an actual wiki
God damn it Amplitude.

>1 planet
No. I can find that stuff elsewhere.

anons i really need help.
i managed to wipe out all the contingency fleets on my side of the galaxy, with the help of my federation. i killed about 10-15 fleets of 608k-690k power. i took back all the territory they captured, and expanded mine. But my fleet is now severely depleted, only 200k at this point. and the contingency just spawned 2 more 608k fleets on my side of the galaxy. i am holding... barely... and i dont know how much longer i can.

the other side of the galaxy is completely fucked. contingency has probably 20 fleets of 600k-700k power and is eating everyone over there alive. it is begining to tresspass on my side just as my fleets were broken. the fleet size in the AI home systems is 1.4million.

what do i do?
what should i use for my ship builds?

why exactly is there not a separate general for civilizations

>560 attack vs 170 attack
yeah about that, those attack values are bullshit. When you look at actual dps on the design screen you'll see that 3 enhanced small attackers have more DPS than medium hunter. Hunter is a bit tougher though.

Civ6 killed it, I'd assume

I'd say that beyond earth killed it.

5x crisis strength is not supposed to be survivable and Wiz said it is not supposed to be survivable.
What you do is go down fighting and enjoy your glorious if futile efforts to hold back the tide

The general is still civ4xg. It's just Stellaris got shipped here after some /gsg/ autism and it more or less was/is a integral chunk of discussion here. And the threads still move slow enough that we're joined with rtsg and cbg and no one really minds.

Amplitude happened.

But that didnt kill Civ seeing Civ 6 blatantly stole Endless Legend districts and sold it 5 times better

Civ6 would outsell EL no matter what it did, it's a question of PR and brand name

Well then Amplitude hardly killed Civ,its more of a Don Bluth/Disney relationship.

I thought we were talking about civ thread on vg dying, not civ in general

When's the next update?

5x strength is survivable, if your game is 'The rest of the galaxy was fanatic pacifist and I had the ruined science nexus in my initial borders'.

Oh. Well then,carry on. Was Civ ever that big of a general anyway? Its not like you can argue about history with it like /gsg/ can.

>being a pussy
You didnt even trigger Psychic collapse crysis.

I pity these nine bastards. The italians probably skinned them alive.

IIRC they weren't actually made prisoner at all, what was left of the French army after the end of that short war told them to go elsewhere, and they did. Italians didn't cross the bridge until the day after the guys had left.

they can't keep getting away with it

That's oddly nice given how many guys they lost.

>the "enemy" was the war criminals meme

ishygd fall for this

Yeah apparently they also got congratulations from the italian general, no doubt his men disagreed.
I guess the italians just weren't high on amphetamines 24/7 like the germans.

French and Italians didnt have massive ideology clash like Germans-Ruskies did.
Speaking of ww2 revenge stories...

youtube.com/watch?v=Q8LVlYJ5eJU

That's because French and Italians are the best buddies.

Not at the time, no.
I'm pretty sure it was around that time that Italians were the last big immigration wave that got shit on all the time, like north Africans now. Then in the 60s with the decolonization etc, the Italians could finally shit on another people and fit in with the Frenchies. Isn't it fantastic, how France works? Too bad short of an alien diaspora, the north Africans will forever be the last and get shit on forever or until ~the great replacement~ is over.

how many people were fired and socially outcast for anti-italian messages?

Actually the last ones would be the subsaharan africans user

They were around before the Chinese or the Italians.

>Isn't it fantastic, how France works?
Why are you pretending that's in any way exclusive to France?

Because he has a hateboner toward France. When Sweden does it, it's okay but when Franc does it, it's worse than Hitler, Stalin, Satan AND Trump. All at once.

>made in the u.s.a.
otherwise, pretty nice

It isn't difficult at all to be worse than Hitler, you know.

Given Hitler killed Hitler, I'd say he's a very nice guy.

No, the CIA killed Hitler in Argentina in 1957 or so.

>he believes the suicide meme

if a 200k fleet can beat a 600k fleet
then a 500k fleet should be able to beat a 1.4 milion fleet and kill a machine planet... maybe thats what ill do.

guerilla war their conquests untill i get enough research and fleet and gank a machine planet

>tfw Horatio is willing to speak with you

There are dragon girls in Dungeon Meshi?

There's vore, why couldn't there be dragon girls?

>The Horatio/Spider war engulfing more generals over time
Truly the rivalry of the century.

I just don't remember that.
I remember Laius' sister resurrecting as a cockatrice able to cast magic, but I don't remember her making that face.

That's just Horatio being a scrub.

You're right, for some reason the game just arbitrarily scales those values up as they get bigger, which seems really odd. Looks like Hunter and Attacker are almost perfectly 3:1 in terms of production and attack stats, small ship is more strategic-efficient and it looks like it has more HP as well. Big ship I guess has the advantage of not being killed in parts.

I'm now really disappointed that I went for predator tech instead of coordinators, since a huge guardian would have been a lot more beneficial than three Accelerators taped together. Hopefully this won't fuck my turn 40 war declaration against Horatio.

>I guess the italians just weren't high on amphetamines 24/7 like the germans
Where did the "Nazis are meth-heads" meme come from?
Never heard it once before maybe 2014.
I did a bunch on WW2 in school in the mid-2000s, and you'd think that if they had such a juicy "Nazis r bad AND drugs r bad m'kay" fact just there for the taking they'd have force-fed it us with everything they had.
But they didn't, which leads me to believe that "Nazi meth-heads" is post-2014 antifa historical revisionism.
Or did my school just miss a trick and everyone's known this forever?

That is a very funny meme template from reddit, Anonymous! Have an upvote!

Probably more jewish propaganda. Old big H has been treated with a bunch of pain-relieving drugs because of spinal injury or something, though, so that might be it.

You mean ?
That person is totally right tho.

From my experience, it's better to have a mix of t1 ships with the upgrade for more slots and t2 without upgraded slots, as the t1 have more bangs for bucks but the enemy gets a huge bonus for every ship destroyed during battle.

Because that was definitely touched upon when I was in high school, long ago, that a shitload of the drug was distributed (not force-fed, as I recall) to about everyone in the German army starting 1940. Also something about Allied pilots using the same to stay awake for long night flights. Don't remember anything about soviets or which allied nation it was exactly though.

>Because
Forget that, deleted first line, forgot to edit second.

And maybe it's more commonly known now because old documents were declassified or found?

WWII was when they started trying to use drugs. It went full effects during the Cold War.

Makes sense that people would remember the big bad evil nazis using drugs but not the nice allies who are good guys.

>Took the Riftborn main quest objective to avoid war for 30 turns
>Should be easy enough, I don't even have any military ships
>Neighbour spontaneously declares war on me for no discernible reason
>Hastily put together a fleet to defend myself
>Riftborn on the opposite end of the galaxy "YOU ARE A GRAVE THREAT, WE DECLARE WAR AGAINST YOU"
Just remember: You asked for this.

>>Neighbour spontaneously declares war on me for no discernible reason
The reason is you had no military ships, user.