Was Charlemagne French or German?

Those identities didn't really exist at the time, he was Frankish.

However, the eventual division of the Carolingian empire into a French and German sphere went along lines which have already existed long before his day. The treaty of Verdun (the fragility and artificiality of Middle Francia aside) didn't really conjure up a division out of thin air. The West was far more influenced by Roman culture having been under Roman control since the time of Caesar and spoke Gallo-Roman dialects. The East spoke Germanic languages and in the Roman era represented a far, untamed frontier.

It's hard to say for certain where Charlemagne himself lies in this division, but both he and his family originated in the Germanic parts (or the Middle in Verdun terms) and it is generally assumed he spoke a Germanic dialect as a first language, perhaps making him more proto-German than proto-French.

He was Gold.

Yes.

Lotharingian

>german
>an ethnicity in 800

any tribes germans are descended from can be called german

Karel de grote was Dutch

>230
Lothlorian*

how did you forgot to add "and what's the difference" OP
this could have actually been a funny thread

>Charlemagne
>french
His name was literally Karl
But on a serious note we was "Germanic Frankish" and not "French Frankish"

Dutch I would say are the closest to him today.

Black

>any tribes germans are descended from can be called german

>Modern germans are not descended from Volga germans

>Therefore, Volga germans were not germans

frank

He was Germanic.

>Therefore, Volga germans were not germans
Lol

It is safe to assume he was in fact Swiss.

Volga Germans = modern Germans

>Germanic

Which is not "German."

Did I ever say he was?

You seem quite confused as every anglo is with their retarded language. Germanic != German.

German is a name given by roman to a land and a meme ethnicity, a mix of Celts, Slavs and Scandis.

French is the name of a (((germanic)) tribes.

Also Charlemagne was French.

HOL UP

He was a right penis t b h

Howdy germanic servants I'm made of gold
t. charlemagne

He was German and his name was KARL

French and German nationalities did not exist back then, do neither.

>Karl

Yes and there are black named Clovis, name doen't mean much, only blood matter.

Exactly, which is why he is a Frank, not a Frenchman or a German. Anyone who says otherwise has to take their head out of their asses.

Stop posting with your trip code you fucking roach

I won't respond to you further so don't think this is an opportunity for (you)'s it's merely a corrective action to stop you from shitting up the board

You know what we do with turkeys here in MURICA in November right?

What are you doing around the end of this month?

We'd love to have you for dinner.

With how much your average american eats you sure there will be enough over for me?

French are Franks, merely the name evolved with passing of time, as for the German they are a mix Bavarians, Saxons, Allemani, and so on.

Damn son, you are good.

Both

French are latinized celt with some germanic blood, they're also citizen based nationalism and the only legitim sucessor state of the Karling empire.

The HRE was invented Otto I long after Charlemagne's death

>His name was literally Karl

Nope, that's the modern German version
His name was Carolus

Karl is the original Germanic name, Carolus and Charles are merely romanized variations

Charlemagne was specifically German

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne#Language

>German is a name given by roman to a land and a meme ethnicity, a mix of Celts, Slavs and Scandis.
Literally this.

Germans are a meme nation

He was finnish.

all nations are memes.
except the hwangook empire.

HOLUP

this thread again

he was ethnically more germanic.

however he's more historically significant to France than germany, as France really came straight out of that power structure and Germany didn't really get a big "united" empire until the 19th century.

HRE actually wasn't a term used until long after Otto. Otto and Charlemagne were just Roman Empire.

>he was ethnically more germanic.
Was he l1?

King Charles was obviously German.

He was charlememe

Closest to what now is Belgian/Luxemburg, Franconian dialects were spoken in the low countries.

Southern Lowlands (Brabant/Flanders)

Frankish.

The French and Germanic stocks are derivatives of the Franks, with a few other ethnics in their too.

Knows his shit. Thanks for letting the plebs onto it

...

I had a ancestor fight in the crusades. Documented from 1067 on. Church records. His wife died of the plague or something similar. He left on a Crusade He died in Jerusalem,his son who was left with his brother is my ancestor. Came to America in 1767.fought on the American side. Proud

He was Frankish, which was a type of German. Keep in mind that in his era, "German" simply meant "Tribesman who comes from the land of Germania" which included many different people who we now regard as separate ethnic groups (e.g. Goths, Vandals, Longobards, and Franks).

>Celts, Slavs and Scandis
Switch Slavs with both Mediterraneans and Germanics and you have France.

Fugguin meme country.

>fight with catholics
>proceeded to go join the (((protestants)))

Not really. France didn't become strongly united until after the Hundred Years War.

Also because he conquered Saxony, he planted the seeds for Otto the Saxon to found the HRE. So he's very relevant to German history.

>Had it not been for the Teutonic infusion at the beginning of the Dark Ages, southern Europe would have been lost. Who were these early “French” kings and heroes that founded French civilisation? Teutons, to a man! It was the Teutonic might of Charles Martel that drove the Saracen Semite out of Gaul. Who were the Normans? Teutons of the North. It is pitiful to me to hear apostles of equity pipe out that other races can equal this foremost of all—this successor to the Roman race in power and virility.

At least there was a french kingdom sometimes united sometimes not germany didn't exist until 1870

Interesting. Who is that >historian you're quoting there?

Frankish, hence more inclined to be considered as French.

One more thing, gold is a valuable commodity.

No this is true for Germany too, "didn't exist until 1870" is just a meme. The HRE had even had "of the German Nation" added.

> France didn't become strongly united until after the Hundred Years War.

What fish's liver did you read that on ?
The HYW started because France was united, you retarded mongoloid illiterate faggot.

So much bullshit

He's obviously 100% French

t. French

Ethnic French are 75-80% R1B: 10% I; 5% J2; 5% G.

We're Celto-Frankish with some foreign admixture, the Germans on the other hand are something like 50% R1B in West 50% R1A in the East and 30-50% I in the North. Germany is clearly an amalgamation of Celtic, Nordic and Slavic lands.

False dichotomy.

Was Nebuchadnezzar Iraqi or Saudi?

Neither nation existed yet.

karl is a modern germanic name, german didn't exist as a language back then

thats germania, not germans/germanics. Slavs and other ethnicities did live in germania, even iranians, but they were not considered germanic or german by the romans

france didn't exist and there were no french tribes. Germany did not exist (kind of, there was Germanii) but german tribes and regions did.

but goths were from sweden and migrated to eastern europe, franks are actual ancestors of modern germans

volga germans are germans...

NOT GERMAN

There were Germanic (Germanen) tribes, not German (Deutsch) tribes
Don't get fooled by English language

>german didn't exist as a language back then
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_High_German
Also I was talking about the Franconian language and "Karl" is an actual Franconian name since Charlesmagne's natural tounge was a Rhine Franconian dialect his given name was most likely Karl

Second post, best post.

He was neither French or German, he was catholic. The religious identifier were the most important until the advent of nationalism from about 1800.