/civ4xg/ - Endless, Stellaris, Civilization and 4X

>the solution to boring mid game is, according to Wiz, playing early game again, just somewhere else
It's not exactly a visionary innovation, but given that the current midgame is "do fucking nothing", you can't argue that it isn't an improvement.

This is inherent nerf to doomstacking because you can't just keep all your guys in one system and instantly teleport them all to where ever they are needed or straight into enemy capital system.
It's not going to stop it all by itself but it will make controlling the map much more important which means keeping fleets in front lines which in turn encourages you to split your fleets.

On a standard map of 600 stars you can't memorize even 100 of those terrain effects if your empire spans 1/6 of the map forcing you to check each individual star of interest whenever you make plans. However if they created a regional system that carried terrain benefits or penalties you could easily memorize a handful of regions, and know where to move just by looking at the map.

>doomstacking is strategy
Hyperlanes-only is not the solution to doomstacking but it is a necessary component of a solution to doomstacking.
When the enemy's doomstack can drop in on you from any direction at any time, you have no choice but to doomstack up too. If you know the enemy's fleet has to go through 17 fortress-defended systems to get to your fleet, you can afford to split up until he arrives.
Of course at the moment Stellaris doesn't really have any incentive that would cause you to split up, but at least the removal of "Death from above, any time, any place" removes one stonking great big DISINCENTIVE to splitting your fleet up

>Respectfully Disagree x 9001

?

I mean you don't have to because battles will be fought on select few systems that's the entire point of the thing.

Nebula will be regions in the first place and pulsars, neutron stars and black holes are both visible on the map but more important you can simply look at the map when you are planning your defense or offense such as making an all armor fleet and a armor focused defense stations for a strategically located pulsar system as your stronghold in one front.

>you can't memorize even 100
Nigga I can't even memorize 5 of them, I always look at the tooltips.

People manage to play CK2/EUIV, with a thousand different provinces all with weird directional-based river defensive bonuses, just fine.

>mfw I'm not one of these

Simple terrain map mode clearly denotes a handful of terrain types and where rivers lie. Of those terrain types the only ones you need to remember are mountains and highlands are really bad to attack into. Now if literally only a couple star types are even going to matter in stellaris, sure it's easy to see at a glance, but unless those are super common they have to adjust hyperlane generation so that pulsars are always at choke points and there's no real way to bypass them.

> dat Cathar
LOL GET FUKT POPO

Nevermind understood how religion worked in CKII. EU4 was simpler to that regard, it was just a matter of time.
A lot of mechanisms in EU4 were a matter of time while CKII depended more on skills and randomness.

>Nevermind understood
Never really understood*

Fucking hell. I'm gonna get my brain checked if I keep on messing like that.

You ain't seen nothin' yet

...

Of course, it had to be the patriarch genestealer.

I never could figure out rivers in any non-HoI games.
Sometimes I have my army on a province covered in rivers, the AI attacks me but get no crossing penalty, but then if I attack the province it came from, I get penalties? I mean, what the fuck. How does this shit work. At least HoI games make it clear.

But it doesn't make the player any less wanting to just blitz to the enemy's capital and occupy it. If the enemy splits their fleets they'll have to deal with your starbases first at slower rate than you did, so they'll occupy your homeworld later than you occupied theirs.
The only thing hyperlanes add is terrain (in a space game), it doesn't make doomstacking worse or better. I guess it's up to starbases now to show how much of a speedbump or a wall they are. Right now I don't feel like there's more presence needed, but rather that you either have to blitz to their capital, if it's close to borders or try to ambush their fleet inside your territory, if your capital is close to the border.

ask in GSG
all I can tell you is that it depends partially on your commander's manoeuvre skill and partially who's defending and who's attacking.

Doomstacks should not be removed from the game completely. It should be a viable strategy in some cases but not in all cases like how it is right now.

I wonder if he will ever realise that space and ground warfare should be as different as XV and XX century warfare. One is "clean", far from civilians (mostly), fought mainly by professionals and over military targets, while the other is brutal, long, involving just about everyone and ruining everything in the vicinity for years to come.
If different bombardments made just a difference of how low are defences brought down (light would leave defender with 50% defence bonus, medium with 25%, heavy with no defence bonus, while apocalyptic would be just glassing the surface), invasions lasted longer and were more destructive, you would be really, really cautious not to make it happen to you.
Of course, they're too incompetent to make AI roll with that.

It makes economic warfare much more viable by breaching in border and then splitting and going after stations, mines and other soft targets while the enemy is forced to crack down at your starbase that protects your important systems

Most importantly it's not a complete solution but just like this guy says
It takes away one of the drawbacks of instantly getting fucked which intself already necessitates doomstacks.

The more time and more predictable the enemy has to be to strike at something you care about the more incentive there is to try to outmaneuver the enemy instead of just confronting them

Stellaris is just too blanc to accomodate everything.

They really need to make glassing a thing. Bombardment as it is right now is just a joke.

NEVER FORGET KHARAK

I still laugh at that guy in the youtube comments who got outraged that the captured captain didn't survive the interrogation. They fucked captured a planet, was he expecting a finger in the ass and a nice hot chocolate?

Glassing needs not necessarily be a thing, but they should make invasion a short-term loss for everybody.
>tfw the bad guys are actually the good guys
(From prequel if you haven't played it)

>muh stellaris ftl diversity
>What is Sots1 and 2.

>>What is Sots1 and 2.
Shitty game ?

Sots 2 was shit but Sots 1 was one of the better 4xs

Game that had 6 ftl types long before "muh unique and original stellaris".

Not really.

>muh original Stellaris

Said no one ever. It was only thing semi unique that was promised for that otherwise dull game.

He even mentions the game in the post mate

It's pretty clear why things that work there don't work here.

Planets can defend themselves
Defense stations actually work
Fleet sizes are very limited
Defensive fleets are a thing
There is more asymmetry than just the FTL
Even the most mobile system can't teleport troops straight into your capital but you nearly always have time to respond
etc. etc.

Stellaris may actually be worth playing now.

Can someone tell me why the fuck we even have this 'sticky' combat system in the first place for Stellaris? Whats the reasoning for using it over a more traditional combat system of actually retaining control of your fucking ships?

The thing i love about China is that even at Deity i can get the early wonders i want.
Time to rush Stonehenge for a "FREE" religion.

Because Paradox cant program other warfare.

Because it's part grand strategy, Paradox has never made a proper real time strategy combat game so they decided to just make combat based on previous games with slightly more emphasis on combat, hence why it's basically just EU combat only with a visual indicator and more customizable "army". It is kind of strange that they basically went half-way to proper combat but decided against it, maybe they just didn't have enough people experienced with/resources for it since I'm sure the balance would be even more fucked if you add player ability to micro the whole fleet way better than the ai. Also I'm sure it would never work with 1000 star galaxies considering how much micro multiple ai empires would have to do possibly at the same time, it would kill performance even more. At least the limited fleet sizes is a step in the right direction, I just want to have multiple fronts and fleet management rather than just putting everything into a single blob.

I liked Wormholes

what geam?

GalCiv3 with custom portrait.

Galactic Civilizations III

I see what you mean, that does make sense.
It would be nice if you could at least choose WHAT you engage in some capacity, there should be some mechanism in place to stop entire fleets getting caught up spending a full month drifting across the system to kill a single mining station. Also, different formations to pick from instead of formless retardo blobs every time.

LoGH-style 4x with a two dimensional high tactics space combat sub-game and space opera overgame when?

Yeah I don't think they will ever make a proper combat system, but it would be nice to have some more ui options for combat, like fleet formation, targeting priorites, disengagement parameters for flagships, or even passive ability buttons like boost shields and stuff like that. Maybe they will add stuff like this in a future combat expansion. Maybe they could even do a system similar to Endless Space where before 2 large fleets engage each party involved can decide battle strategies and combat bonuses, although that would get very messy I think.

Couldn't they retain both the sticky fleet design but allow each fleet to be moved independently without taking all control from the player once battle starts?

That way you'd still be moving entire fleets instead of individual ships, especially since admiral bonuses encourage you to do so. I mean the ships' performance already depends on range / where they physically are in the gravity well so it's not hard to imagine escape command making the ships reverse course and head for the nearest edge of the gravity well bordering a friendly or neutral system (maybe with toggleable wait for all / certain percentage of ships vs. warp ASAP option), instead of making them simply poof away with emergency FTL.

I heard that the official strategy game is actually pretty good.

Yeah I think something needs to be done about emergency FTL, but I don't think having fleets controllable in combat would really add anything beyond some exploits and balancing issues. Certainly a "retreat" command where the fleet has to fall back to the system edge before jumping(maybe you press retreat and then select the "arrow" you want them to jump thorugh) is a better idea than the nonsensical magic emergency FTL, and I think "realism" will have to be ignored for gameplay balance.

The only problem I see though is that a big part of the reason for emergency FTL is that the escaping fleet gets a head-start on the fleet it's retreating from, so if say you retreat to the system edge and jump away, the fleet your running from is right beside the same jump point since they were chasing you so would just follow, jump in beside the retreating fleet, and wipe them out. Maybe it could be tied to a "stun" effect that stops that fleet from using FTL for a certain amount of time or something, or you could select a vanguard force to keep the enemy fleet tied up in the meantime. There are just so many potential issues involved with replacing emergency FTL since it is in essence a giant bandaid on the wound that is all-or-nothing battles that I don't see it changing until a patch specifically meant to overhaul combat/wars.

>mfw watching LoGH while conducting [tactical 4x maneuvres]

little girl animes are the best you cretin

>tfw Vox Populi on King seems easy
>tfw Vox Populi on Emperor seems too hard

can't you mod emperor to be a little inbetween then?

They are for little girls, not neckbeards.

it's fine if you have the heart and mind of a little girl

That manga never fails to bring a smile to my face.

Then you are clinically mentally retarded and probably have serious problems with arrythmia.

He said mind, not brain.

But there's no translation right? Some guy posted a download link on /v/ but I can't into nippon.

Is there anything better than a sophon seeker leading a fleet of these beauties?

Absolutely-fucking-disgusting.

The whole point of space is that it's open in all directions; there shouldn't be shit like 'chokepoints' in the first place. Of you're going to create a space-set game then create forms of warfare that work within it, don't hamstring space to make it fit terrestrial warfare.

Thank god modders will have this fixed in a week.

youtu.be/Arjs8nDC3Tk
this is why horatio sauce was made
not because it was a haha funny meme
but because it warded off fucking avatarfags you idiots

You're retarded.
Ships aren't magical place that can go around for centuries. They need food, oxygens, fuel, ammos, medicines, recruits, condoms.

What the fuck are you even talking about? I never said anything about supplies or resources. Direction is not the same as distance/travel time.

But why arbitrary FTL lines in space are required for supply lines?

>hurrr muh spehss realism trumps fun gameplay
Yeah it was so much fun when you could completely bypass everything and wars were basically just 1 single battle and then mopping up space stations.

Because unseen asteroid fields, nebulas, anomalies, black holes?
There's plenty of hazards in space.
Okay, that'sa bit shabby and requires a lot of suspension of disbelief.

>it's a hegemonic imperialist episode

>it's a hegemonic imperialists are supposed to hate everyone but they really only hate you and ally with each other episode

Wouldn't they make you take losses in the first place, as you discover them?
It indeed is very shabby

So basically typical Paradox games AI ??

becasue current combat can be implemented like this:
if (two fleet meet){
do{ *calculating damage, hp and shit. simple math*
}while(both fleet is alive, or one hasnt used Emergency FTL)
}

While retaining control of your ships would involve tons more work. just implementing box-slecting would be more complex than the entire current battle system.

Get fucked Horatio.

I just like to pretend there is more going on behind the scenes than the game tells you to make it make a little sense.

Why was this removed? Lmao

It really is for the better, I don't even want to know how badly balanced combat and ai would be with a proper combat system, as it is with the most basic combat system possible it's got serious problems.

...

Seeing Stellaris was a B-team throwaway project turned to success im amazed its even playable.

I wonder if the "distance from you" diplomacy debuff will change now that we can build wormhole stations and shit. Would be great if federations could form over large distances because they both have wormhole stations within their territory. Also, that'll make fighting the end-game crisis better. Won't have to travel across the entire galaxy and negotiate open borders (or wormhole station construction access) with 16 empires because you really need to go fight the swarm that just spawned all the way to the other side. Even with the current FTL systems moving your fleet across the entire galaxy is a pain for every types of engine.

Dude who needs dedicated AI guy lmao

youtube.com/watch?v=TMYso30L9zI

Off-topic trash.

Then lets talk about the new minor faction

what is this 1.6gig patch for stellaris?

Playing Cities Skylines made me realize how much of a shitty city with spaghetti layout and lack of public trasportation I live in.

ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY

lets talk about horatio, a major faction in the 4x strategy game endless space 2

We really need a new arthropod minor faction

True.

Whats your favorite leader in 4x? Mine is Horatio.

Guys i think i have a problem with creating Horatio OC.

hodeirdre

I don't know how they nailed the type of woman I want to do horrible things to, but they did it.