/civ4xg/ - Endless, Stellaris, Civilization and 4X

It's easier to trash talk someone when they can't answer.

It's hard to trash talk anyone on the paracux forums when you're banned.

Well, maybe if you spent more time respectfully disagreeing instead of being an asshole...

hes not intent on having a discussion he just wants to pigeonhole any and all criticism toward the changes as autistic rpers,

ironic considering stellaris is a fusion of grand strategy and 4x the 2 most autistic genres in existence

What is it about Paradox that attracts such absolute autists?

>he cant behave outside of Veeky Forums
>accuses people of being autistic

pot calling the kettle black eh?

>grand strategy and 4x
>the 2 most autistic genres in existence
Go play an Asian MMO.

>grand strategy and 4x the 2 most autistic genres in existence
Grand strategy at a stretch, but 4X? Nah.

horatio is a faggot!

Or Sanic/Undertale stuff
5 nights at Freddy too

Sonic is actually goo-
>Forces
Okay, it WAS good.

And Undertale is nice too, it just attracted the worst fanbase for whatever reason.

>If you're going to argue with someone, at least argue with the person you're talking to.
The argument posted is fundamentally the same argument all objectors share, through. "Reeeeeee spess is 3d reeeeeee muh RP". It is not so much a strawman as it is a prime distillation of the opposition to the change, stripped of all pretense.
If you have an objection that doesn't boil down to "Dude space lmao", then by all means let's talk about that.

Well we arent talking about game quality but the people it attracts, no? Also can you get more autistic than this, really.
youtube.com/watch?v=jPWrHPNekvE

Edgy =/= Autistic.

And that was actually fun.

>trying GalCiv3
Could be comfy but holy fuck the tile limits on your colonies is extremely annoying

Okay, see, here's a problem I see with this. As is, the gameplay is shit, so a lot of people playing it now are playing it for RP. The decision to limit starting FTL types will probably be a good gameplay decision, but it limits the RP in the empire creation screen, which is, at least for me, the easiest part of Stellaris to RP.
>"Reeeeeee spess is 3d reeeeeee muh RP"
You really shouldn't be censoring people for wanting to play a space game that feels like it's in space. If you want to say that hyperlanes also feel like space, that's fine, but a space game should feel like it's set in space.

This is not to say that I am an RPer or a gameplay guy. Stellaris is shit on both fronts. RP ends after the empire creation screen, and gameplay ends after the exploration phase of the game.

I unironically enjoyed Shadow the Hedgehog, which is probably because I was underage at the time and really enjoyed SA2B, especially for the chao garden. The branching story was neat, and the stages were pretty interesting.
There were >guns, but it wasn't actually that edgy.

I actually never understood the complains, it's not really edgy. Guys you shoot don't even die.

I am not at my desktop right now, so I can't get the exact numbers, bit hopefully back-of-the-envelope calculations will demonstrate the lunacy of the"It's limiting my RP" objection:

Number of portraits =~ 100
Number of homeworld types = 9
Number of weapon types = 3
Number of hull types = 6
Number of starting civics/ethos/authority choice combinations =~ 4^15 (complex due to ethics exclusivity but I think this is about the right region)
Number of starting traits choice combinations =~ 4^25 (complex due to varying costs but I think this is about the right region)

1.98*10^28 possible race set-up combinations.
Add in the ability to choose your hyperlane type multiplies the choices by 3:
6*10^28 possible race set-up combinations.

So yes, you are indisputably correct that the RP diversity has been slashed to a third. But there are still twenty billion billion billion distinct races you can make. If you're complaining that that's "too restrictive ofplayer creativity", then I don't think you are speaking a language I can understand, and I hope you can appreciate why everyone would call ypu a giant autist throwing a spaz because he doesn't appreciate the depth of possibility space he has and sees only through the matrix of "But muh Star Trek!!"

> You really shouldn't be censoring people for wanting to play a space game that feels like it's in space.
Nobody wants to play a space game that feels like it's in space, because actual space travel is, as mentioned previously, 500 years of boredom travel followed by death in a tenth of a second when you hit a dust grain. So I unitonically do not understand your point. What do "Feels like it's in space" actually mean, inside your head? Because if you exert some introspection I strongly suspect you will find yourself right back at "Star Trek", in which case we come full circle and I refer you back to .

So I'm in a dilemma where I got into a federation with a guy who was up to wreck shit with me all day. Suddenly, the Contingency shows up. It takes me and the Contingency both eating a Fallen Empire alive to wake up the Xenophile FE to do anything, and they are initially Equivalent to me. They wake up and wardec the only person in the galaxy actually fighting off the Contingecy with any success.

So I retaliate and fuck their shit, leaving them a world so that I can just finish them off later. Well, now my ass-kicking federation buddy is a massive pacifist (despite not having the ethos) and refuses to go to war with anyone under any circumstances. He made buddy-buddy with the entire galaxy, and is Federation'd up with the Machine Intelligence that has extincted at least twelve species at this point.

Pic related, it's the fucker who keeps unrivaling me just to reup it and talk shit.

cont.

...but this isn't even the salient point. Because I agree, technically, that going from 60 billion billion billion combos to 20 billiin billion billion combos is not as good as doing the reverse.
The point is, rather, to ask whether the negative of "reducing the kinds of particle swirl you get when your ship jumps from the edge of the system from 3 to 1" is adequately compensated for by "now having a war movement system that can possibly be more complex than fleets jumping in on you from every fucking direction with no warning and everyone blitzing everyone else's capital on the first day of each war".

And of your answer to that question is "No", the diagnosis would be that your priorities are disordered to the point of insanity.

>Nobody wants to play a space game that feels like it's in space, because actual space travel is, as mentioned previously, 500 years of boredom travel followed by death in a tenth of a second when you hit a dust grain. So I unitonically do not understand your point. What do "Feels like it's in space" actually mean, inside your head?

I think that this is a point that bears repeating because 99% of people who bitch about anything in any space game and use "muh realism!" as their justification, are fucking retarded and are really just bitching that the game in question doesn't conform to their preferred type of sci-fi space fiction that they enjoy.

>reeeeee muh spess mega antonine quantum wall

On a scale of theorically feasible to literally magic, Hyperlanes is like way, way past the point of literal magic compared to literally everything else.

>try Civ 6
>oh, a great person race,that looks neat
>great scientist literally gives you half of random tech for later eras
FUUUUCKIIIING HELLLLLLLL WHY EVEN BOTHER

>Okay, Emperor user, if you want to expand into that sector you're going to have to suck on my nipples!
What do?

Cravers paste or vodyani soup.

>tonight we dine on vodyani soup

>Gargantuan Population actually represents the lengths the Vodyani will go to make the perfect dish of food.

>Snorting lines of Dust off of Lumeris hookers

>Vodyani cooks often throw out entire meals if they mess up their measurements
>even if it's something they can fix on the spot

Less variety among empires.

Yeah, it's a legitimately good game. People were just going "not muh sonic" at it I think.

>playing civIV the last couple days
>never ever have iron or copper anywhere near my cities
Last time it took me until the fucking modern era just to find copper and that was just because I got lucky with an event

>Vodyani overindustrialization is actually the lie the council tells new Vodyani
>The collpase was a case of food waste gone mad.
>The council is actually a public health inspector board that got really, really powerful
>Half of their holy text is just a cookbook.

>tfw your ship is ordered over the top in the photonic trenches of Verdunia IV

>the other half is unable to be read
>the pages are covered in Horatio Sauce

>less variety among a single aspect of empire which already have a large varience
>boring strategic gameplay where you can completely ignore every system except the few needed for warscore
I choose the former, this is a game after all so you need to pick the option that gives the most fun not increases muh immersion.

>which already have a large varience
Not really senpai

>large variance
Is this the lie you're going to tell yourself so you and wiz can inflict your Stalingrad-in-space playstyle on the entire playerbase?

>the ecological collapse was due to rampant overuse of horatio sauce
it's like a von neumann probe

>implying having varying FTL types actually changes anything when everyone just picks Warp because it's clearly better

>hurr I always choose the same playstyle because muh optimization
>so therefore there's no variety
Go play Civ.

I've seen hypermemers claim that both of the alternate ftls are "clearly superior in every way" and blame them on doomstacks, and yet every time I've dealt with the hypermeme the ones who were playing a rolling ball of doom with no FTL downtime was the ones with hyperlanes, who required traps and baiting just to eventually stop being an annoyance

Basically everything the hypermemers are whining about re warp and wormhole is more their fault than anything.

>for the entire Stellaris lifetime people bitch about how boring the combat and warfare is
>change something that will dramatically change the gameplay, possibly for the better but no one knows since they haven't played it(not with galactic terrain, border changes, doomstack changes, starbase changes)
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE MUH SPACE
Lol typical

Forcing hyperlanes isn't going to fix the problems that are inherent in fucking hyperlanes.

>I smash my whole fleet at the Al-Amut VII system and its starbases before the enemy's doomstack outdoomstacks me
is the opposite of engaging strategic gameplay

First, Doomstacking is being addressed, both with fleet size caps and other aspects that haven't been announced yet, second this is assuming there is a single line you have to maneuver through which will only happen when you set hyperlane connectivity to low or when facing a small empire with only a couple chokepointed systems. Reality will probably be that you can still maneuver around most choke points and being forced on paths will simply increase the need for strategic thought, such as will I force my way through this citadel or go the long way around/through open borders to strike at weaker systems.

You will actually be able to set up strategic fortresses that matter rather than having everything revolve around your core worlds, and actually gives a reason to raid undefended systems because you might not be strong enough to take on heavily defended systems.

We all know the only reason they set hyperlane connectivity settings the way they did is in the hopes of placating the New Horizons team, hypermemers will keep it low because it's the only goddamn reason anyone ever plays hyperlanes, to turn space opera into a rendition of Ypres.

>m-muh alcubierre drive
You mean the thing that requires negative mass, something which is complete magical fantasy, to function?

The really funny thing is complaining about magic in a game with fucking psychic powers. There is literal space magic in the game, and yet he want to bitch about how unrealistic hyperlanes are.

Ultimately the realism argument is silly, because all that matters is that hypermemers are desperately trying to force their shitty HOI4-style gameplay on everyone.

If they really wanted a FTL style that fixes doomstacks they'd be begging for vanilla wormholes, not the FTL style that's mostly the equivalent of fighting a doomstack wack-a-mole whenever there's a war.

Okay then I'll just come out and say it, space warfare is more fun when you have actual frontlines to fight over, jumping into the center empire and fighting 1 important battle and then mopping up warscore simply isn't as fun as having to flank enemy fortifications, setting up lines of defense that exist outside of core planets, and having to actually invade multiple lines of defense. Current warfare is fucking trash and maybe it could be saved by a bunch of convoluted changes, but personally I don't think Paradox is even capable of pulling off properly fixing it while retaining the 3 separate FTL's, and hyperlanes is the easiest to design so I give the greatest chance of success to that option.

Maybe it won't be the greatest it could possibly be, but you are pretty new to the game if you are still expecting paradox to pull maximum potential from their titles because frankly they aren't competent enough for it, and it will almost certainly be better than what we have now.

Horatio sexually assaulted me.

lucky bastard.

The FTL change really isn't there to combat doomstacks, no FTL is going to change that. The best solution for doomstacks is to create a supply system that makes putting all your ships on one front or in one system impractical. Fleet caps are just going to cause players to split their fleets and then combine them when they attack.

I really think that starbases combined with the FTL change will actually make doomstacks more necessary, since you'll need your full fleet power to overcome them, if not, then they'll have the same problem that defenses have now.

There are caps being added, but also other aspects that haven't been announced so possibly a supply limit or command limit in battles that cause poor performance when using multiple fleets, we'll know more when we get a dedicated dev diary on it.

you can't even call what he does assault
it's too elegant for such a coarse word

ok where is this alleged 'macro gameplay' of civ 5?

>Fleet caps are just going to cause players to split their fleets and then combine them when they attack.
That's why I'm basically saying they could have done that by locking everyone into vanilla wormholes

Jumps with large fleets have a horrendous charge-up time, so any serious war is basically going to require running multiple squadrons.

At which point your choice is a) mass fleet, invade or b) group squadrons so they can at least take down typical system defenses, keep the remainder as raiders

I didn't play with wormholes much but it felt like it involved a lot more strategic decisions than either of the other two.

Is Civ VI worth picking up for like 60% off?

>trying to do nofap
>playing a nice relaxing game of ES2
>stumble upon this bitch
I'm trying to resist the alien influence but it's hard.

do not be tempted by the lumeris, user
you shall soon learn why the perfidious fishtits are despised and mistrusted

Double digits and we become /horatio/

Double digits and all horatios die from an overlooked genetic defect.

I still dont see how doing hyperlanes only will "fix" the warfare according to paradrones..

It axes every strategy other than straight up assault - no more raiding enemy rear, no more possibility of blitzkrieg ( because you have to take every system/at least clear it from enemies, between here and target ), no more bypassing strong fortified systems etc.

Its going to be even more of a fucking chore that it already is. Especially with some bullshit cap on amount of vessels in the fleets.

double digits and horatio is boss of this general

It will "force" engagements in choke points. The paradrones are off base though as usua thoughl. The hypermeme change isn't even to fix warfare primarily, it's to restructure the game from a foundational level to be more 4x like. We've complained long enough about lack of mid game content. Wiz answers this complaint by walling off a portion of the galaxy behind gateways to literally gate exploration and expansion. Why fix a problem by adding content when you can just hide some of the content behind a research wall? The warfare "Fix" comes in the form of a supposedly revamped warscore system with the changes to starbases, border expansion, and system claiming.

>he thinks the lumeris are the true semen demons.

>hyperlanes only
Good job retard you just pointed out a flaw that doesn't exist because the FTL change is happening alongside a ton of other things, your post is pointless.

Also:
>It axes every strategy other than straight up assault
Wrong, it actually adds variety since you can no longer just jump straight into the important systems and will actually have things to maneuver around. Before all you did was jump straight into homeworld in a frontal assault, wipe out defending fleet and shitty space stations, and proceed to mop up pointless defenses. Now you will actually be required to think about where you send your fleet in, what route you take and how best to use terrain/hyperlane placement to your advantage.
>no more bypassing strong fortified systems
It's like you retards have no concept of how hyperlanes work, there won't be only 1 or 2 entrances into an empire, except in instances where you are fighting on a small front or against a small empire, in 90% of important wars there will be too many lanes to completely fortify since you have a limited amount of space stations to place, and you won't be placing all of them on your border, so there will be a series of hardened fortresses and less fortified outposts. You will have to assess the frontline and make a dedicated push at the weakest part of the line, or even multiple parts in order to split up enemy fleets. Further, you will have more interesting decisions to make based on terrain and distance. Do I attack the heavy fortress right beside the enemy core worlds, or go the long way around and allow enemy fleets time to counterattack/build up.
>no more possibility of blitzkrieg ( because you have to take every system/at least clear it from enemies, between here and target )
You can totally bypass systems, most outposts won't have defense platforms surrounding them that will pull you into combat.
>no more bypassing strong fortified systems etc.
or, you could say, forts aren't irrelevant anymore.

All this talk about warp and hyperlanes has got me thinking about how I really don't like what free-movement does to wars in ES2. You have all these nodes that apply effects to combat, and you can blockade systems to essentially set up chokepoints. One would assume this would put pressure on attackers to negotiate open borders with other empires in order to attack from another front or something like that, but nope, 1 seeker hero and a jacked-as-fuck fleet is squatting on your homeworld within 2 turns, completely bypassing the rest of the map and all your fleets, meaning the only way to defend yourself is to have capped fleets orbiting every single system in your empire.

My biggest complaint with wormholes was that the stations were poorly implemented. They were far too cheap and spammy, when they should have been actual strategic investments you want to place is appropriate systems and protect.

*gives you a seatbelt-job*

Hero free move bonuses are busted as fuck.
The fucking trees of all races start with a hero that can go full speed racer with his fleet off of lanes when the trees should be the most dependent on lanes due to their vine movement bonuses.

what do riftborn sound like?

>that parafaggot denial

>Wrong, it actually adds variety since you can no longer just jump straight into the important systems and will actually have things to maneuver around.

>removing every basic strategy other than headbutting the fortified line straight on adds variety

Christ, you are a special kind of retard are ?

If waifus had a sound that is what the riftborn sound like.

>you are a special kind of retard are
And you are a special retard special dumb retard dumb.

>that triggers the parafaggot.jpeg

Fuck off back to Paradoxplaza you retarded fanboy.

>calls point out for being retarded
>doesn't read or challenge rest of post explaining why this point is true
Jesus, I literally just rebutted this exact same post in the post you replied to, and I'm the retard lol.

Don't bother with that retard, he can't even use proper English.

Says the retard who claims that removing strategical options will add variety.

I feel sorry for you.

>Says the retard who claims that removing strategical options will add variety.
THERE
ARE
NO
STRATEGIC
OPTIONS
RIGHT
NOW
Everything is just a complete fucking mess of doomfleets flying past one another with no regard to how deep inside the enemy border a planet is.
Strategy cannot exist in a formless void with no points of reference, and that's what we've got right now.

>strategical options
Yeah, it was real strategic when you just jump through 2 empty systems into the capital, nuke everything and the war is over. You still haven't countered my points so I guess I'm done if you aren't even going to try.

I haven't played Endless Space 2 since August
What has changed since then?

>try ES2 since everyone here is fapping over it
>system (not even planetary ) wide buildings
>no separate shipyards so cant build ships beside planetary improvements
>cant build ground units on my own
>mana everywhere

Fuck, i get it - its beautiful game, that Du Crest art makes me hard to, music is awesome but fuck that game sucks major ass.

Except they are.
They have minimal impact on the war sure, because Paracucks cant balance and code for shit BUT they are there.
"Hyperlanes only" removes any other strategy than slow grinding through prepared defense system by system. There is no other way into the enemy capital, you cant raid lightly defended planet because you cant get there etc.

Stellaris warfare needs overhaul but hyperlane only isnt the way to go.

>They have minimal impact on the war sure, because Paracucks cant balance and code for shit BUT they are there.
So your complaint is not that the 1.9 update will take strategic variety away from Stellaris, but rather that the 1.9 update will take strategic variety away from this hypothetical vision of a perfect space game by a different studio that you have imagined in your head.

K

Wtf are you even talking about ?

Stellaris in its current state HAS variety of options.
Those options need only balancing and polish to be viable.
Paradox, in typical paradox fashion, completely removes those options forcing people into the way of playing that is broken the least. In the process they are removing strategic options variety changing the game into a slow and tedious grind.

>Stellaris in its current state HAS variety of options.
Name three

>Except they are.
>Stellaris in its current state HAS variety of options.

What are they? Can you actually name them?

Shit taste desu senpai, system wide buildings make games so much better and less micro oriented. Stellaris would benefit from doing away with planetary management and shifting everything to the system level.
>Wants to build ground units in a SPACE game
lol k. Not since imperium galactica 2 has ground combat been worthwhile in a space 4x.

Fighters and bombers, general tweaks, the photobomber