Has there ever been real socialism?

Has there ever been real socialism?

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As a nice counter argument: libertarians will insist that we don't really have "real" capitalism.

What does that tell you about ideological thought?

Stalinist USSR.
Good ol' days.

Revolutionary Catalonia was paradise on earth

Does Democratic Socialism or does that not count because of the high development index of Scandinavian countries?


/thread

Catalonia

Scandinavia is capitalism with a very strong welfare state. Not socialism.

Go away.

Yes. Every system that attempts to (in time) evolve into communism without having capitalism as the middleman is socialist. There are more proposed socialist systems than there are stars on the night sky, and they tend to differ greatly both on politics and economics. The thing they all have in common, though, is that they replace the memes-of-production-owning class (the burgeoisie) with something else.

This.

Wouldn't call it a paradise but it was pretty cool at times

Corrupt capitalism can work. But communism in any form fails. Also not forgetting that many libertarians will say that we have simply corrupted capitalism but that it's still capitalism

Watch

m.youtube.com/watch?v=zIddCEBCKHQ

Catalonia and Rojava would take us up on that.

Democratic Socialism is the "real" socialism as far as I'm concerned in the sense that it is the only form of socialism that any reasonable person would advocate for. Non-democratic socialism is the domain of Stalinists.

Read Orwell? Despite him being an anarchist sympathizer, Homage to Catalunia describes the place as a fucking rundown pigsty.

Non-democratic socialism is an oxymoron. How can workers control the means of production, if the means of production is controlled by the state, but the state is not controlled by the workers?

>How can workers control the means of production, if the means of production is controlled by the state, but the state is not controlled by the workers?

Ask Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc.

>"I have no idea what I'm talking about"

I did. They said
>something something muh vanguard party mumble mumble

The nature world and all its animals exist in a capitalism style of living.

>property rights
>natural

Fuck off

Reading it right now and that's not how he described it at all

No pure ideologies have really been practiced, Nothing is purely socialist or capitalist or an other ist you can describe.

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To be fair most socialist societies are founded by a bunch of dirty poor people who never ran shit and tend to quickly be wrested from the intellectuals by people attracted to power. They do feature a dangerous centralization of power though, so that doesn't help.

East Germany called their system Realsozialismus/real existierender Sozialismus.
So yeah they had the real sozialism

But was it a real real socialism?

I really hope someone comes in to dismantle this video soon. I don't want to sit through 43 minutes of being proved wrong at 2 am.

uh yeah, i pissed on this. everyone in the pack agrees it's mine.

When a scientist tests a theory and the experiment does not show the predicted results they sit down and figure out why. Maybe the theory was right but there are other factors unaccounted for. Maybe some of the figures weren't accurate enough. Maybe it is plain wrong. Either way the scientist looks at past mistakes like phlogiston theory and avoids any attachment to their pet theory.

The socialist does not do this. They have decided their theory is right and that is that. To the socialist the biggest threat is people who want to try alternatives. When the sensible intelligent people leave or try to correct some huge error they yell "BOURGEOIS TRAITORS" for not following their particular brand of socialism. They come up with loopy whacky convoluted conspiracy theories with low standards of evidence to explain why it failed then demand more and more sacrifices from people "this time it'll work".

I call my toilet a perpetuum mobile, so yeah, I own a perpetuum mobile. Wanna buy it?

It was a complete shithole that collapsed within two years

> The socialist does not do this.
And who does? The main anti-socialist argument about "human nature" isn't more factual, than the whatever marxist excuses there exist. Predictive political theory barely in proto-science stage now.

So you toilet produces food out of your shit?

If I tell you that's food in there, will you eat it?

>Predictive political theory barely in proto-science stage now.
Maybe, but you don't have to be a political scientist to see why dictatorships were more fond of idolizing socialist ideals like confiscating private property than liberal democratic ideals like criticizing your leaders. It is obvious capitalism isn't the root of all evil and the persecution of innocent capitalists has to stop.

soviet union has best everything

>Has there ever been real socialism?
Yes

>persecution of innocent capitalists has to stop.
This has literally never been a thing. There is no innocent or guilty in capitalism. There's those who have those who have not. When those people gain too much power and capital people rebel, when there's enough for the have-nots to feel comfortable they won't.

Some more real socialism

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>capitalism with heavy state regulation, state welfare, etc etc is still capitalism
>but all that socialist stuff is just welfare!!!
Socialism and capitalism can exist in varyiing degrees within the same system.

Yes. They're called ant colonies.

It's wildly successful there.