What the fuck does this actually mean?

>the ends do not justify the means
/thread

Yep. It's not hard to understand.

Ideals>*

The reason it works is you die faster, and everything is good.It doesn't matter if you die sooner rather than latter. You are dead.
Your actions and ideals live far longer than you do.
It gives meaning.

literally the opposite of what Machiavelli praises

This he is saying do not pay attention to how its supposed to be but how it is

Liberals and democracy defenders on suicide watch

I love Machiavelli.

>Machiavelli BTFOs liberalism and democracy
>(((Scholars))) repeat the satire meme until people fall for it
Do they not realize that they are only proving him right?

Learning how you ought to live is time wasted and time not spent learning how the world actually works. Thus you will be ignorant about the world and will fall... down.

Don't take philosophy too seriously.

>Machiavelli BTFO liberalism and democracy
t. has read absolutely nothing by Machiavelli

how is that a rebuttal of democracy?

The same thing Hume concluded: From subjektive reality (how you are living) you can not know how objective reality (how you ought to live).
Based Maciavelli BTFO Ayn Rand 400 years before she was born.

In a way, he's right.
As a republican, he's not necessarily a democrat, and he didn't really write much about suffrage.
And of course liberalism (in the modern sense) is mostly shitty idealism, so not really Nicky's alley. Same as conservatism, mind you.

does Machiavelli count as a philosopher.
he wrote the Rennaisance equivalent of Idiot's Guide to Ruling a City-State

Use yourself as an example.

Isn't there something you should be doing right now instead of shitposting on Veeky Forums? Why aren't you doing it? It is easy for someone to tell you to do something but it is not human nature to do what we ought to do every time.

A realist has to take this into account. Whether you are an honest good person or some edgy manipulator you have to accept that people are flawed and it is never as simple as getting on your knees and appealing them to do what is right.

you gotta keep it real

was Machiavelli the first redpill?

Machiavelli was redpilled at the wrong time.

>decided that mercenaries were bullshit and that you have to make a real army
too bad he learned it AFTER France BTFO'd Italy

>decided that orderly and well-intentioned tyranny is better than self interested "muh freedoms"
too bad he called for if after the Medici no longer had any fucks to give anymore

>learned that a "good" leader doing everything wrong is worse than an "evil" leader doing everything right
as he was apart of the faction that ousted the Medici and allowed Savonarola to run roughshod over the republic that the Medici saved

>Ideally everyone should come together reach consensus and do whats best for the country
>In reality all they do is to fight among each other to try to preserve themselves in power
>Votes mean jack shit not only to the politicians but to the electorade
>Napoleon threw the republic out of the window almost immediately cause it was a hindrance and pose a threat to France who was at war with the entire world

>France BTFO'd Italy
This is so wrong in so many levels and so American that I hope that you are trolling

I mean sure they were invited by Milan to take over Naples but to Italians at the time it might as well have been

To be a true realist you have to account for the spooks in the world too.

A true Machiavellian acts as if God exists if people believe he exists, even if God doesn't exist.

It's actually Rousseau that started that meme.

I never understood how that was suposed to prove him wrong

How come nobody ever talks about that part in the prince where he explains how to cultivate yourself into a military leader? That was my favorite part.

Or the part at the end where he says Italy needs to unify or its going to get fucked on both ends by France and Spain. I liked that a lot too.

All anyone ever wants to talk about is that whole is it better to be feared or loved bit.

Why would you listen to a loser?

literally
>they don't think it be like it is but it do

That we live in a world of self-induced lies and deceits, to such a degree, that if we were to try to be honest, we would be denounced as insane.

Or, as someone else put it, "There is nothing the people find more frightening than a free man."

I'm pretty sure he just realizes that there is a massive gulf between theory and practice, and if you delve too deep into theory, you ignore people and their interests.

Unfortunately for him, Aristotle pointed this out 1000 years before Machiavelli did.

>Unfortunately for him, Aristotle pointed this out 1000 years before Machiavelli did.
Yes well, people still haven't got it down 2500 years after Aristotle, one can hardly blame Machiavelli to speak up again on the subject.
Besides Aristotle wan't the first either, the sophists had been harping about it for centuries already.

Well he did say that a ruler should appear pious and virtuous even if he wasn't in reality.