Landlord messed up his lease

>Landlord messed up his lease
>Lease says landlord pays for all "cold water" but tenants pay for "hot water"
>Unsure what that means
>Halfway through second month of lease, landlord sends a text saying he's just been notified by the housing association that actually we're supposed to pay for the water and he'll bill us later
>Didn't see the text among many others and never responded to it
>Now, 4 months later, he is sending a bill for 4 months of water and it's very high
Do we actually have to pay this?
He messed up and it's in the lease that I agreed. Never agreed to pay these unusually high water bills. Plus there was a leaking sink for the first few weeks before he was able to come and fix it.

Take a look at the lease you signed. Can you lawyer up?

Jesus fucking Christ man. The landlord said something stupid, he's ended up paying for shit YOU are using, why wouldn't you just fucking pay what you owe? Fucking criminal

Yeah, pay a few grand to lawyer up to fight $100 worth of water bills. Fucking idiots all over this god forsaken site.

I looked at the lease and took pictures of it.

I don't have a lawyer so that isn't really an option.
We've just texted the realtor who got us in contact with him to ask if this is normal, what the procedure is, etc. I am not going to pay it yet.

His way of billing us, by the way, was sending us a picture of the bill and telling us to just add the money to the rent. We don't even have a bill of our own.

It's not $100 it's like $400 for just 3 months of bills, Really unusually high and we never got a bill either, just a text saying to give him the money and a poorly taken picture of a paper with that amount off money written on it.

And because when I signed the lease, I didn't agree to pay this shit. We keep the house freezing to save gas and turn off all electronics when we leave to save electricity, always. So the water bill is a big deal to us.

FWIW water is always added to a lease where I'm at (Arizona). I'd ask for an actual copy of the invoices and phone the utility company to verify the rate being charged. If it's abnormally high there could be a leak somewhere.

There was a leak, that's exactly what I just said in the original post.

Also I don't care if it's $5. I signed a deal for this place which says he pays for the water. He has every right to kick me out after a year (with 2 months notice) but until that time, I don't see any justification to paying nearly $1600 to him in water bills (almost $400 a quarter for 4 quarters).

Do you like your apartment? Other than this incident has your landlord been out of your hair? Consider paying the bill.

Is your apartment kind of shit? Is the landlord a raging duchebag? "hot water" in a lease generally refers to the cost of heating the water, not the water itself. In any case, your lease says he pays for cold water, he literally has no way of proving if you are using cold or hot water unless he has sub meters installed (highly unlikely, and would be super bizarre to have two submeters for one unit). If the lease is signed, he is shit out of luck. He could try and take you to small claims court, all you would have to do is show the judge your lease and you would be in the clear. I'm 99% sure you dont have to pay his water bill, but you probably wont be able to renew your lease after it has expired.

It's not your problem. Period.

Highlight the part of the lease and send him a picture.

It's not unusual for a landlord to pay the water bill.

I'm a residential landlord and I pay the water bill (but no other utility). I'm also a commercial tennant, water is included but somehow factored into the maintenance portion of the monthly rent.

Hot water starts off as cold water from the tap, dumbass.

In theory just don't pay it and if it's added to the bill deduct it from the amount you do pay.
If he has a problem with that you to small claims court where they will laugh at him. You don't need a lawyer for this, the whole reason it exists is to settle these things.
If he tries to keep your deposit then you get to be the one to initiate small claims proceedings if you think it's worth it.

Just outline to him what the contract says and that you're willing to go to court over it.

Do unpaid water bill liens get attached to the property in your state or something? I dont pay water bills if I can help it, I'll even go as far as blowing several grand getting a additional water service installed on a duplex, it pays for itself after a couple years, and tenants are way less wasteful with water.

I do like the apartment and the landlord has been great thus far. That's why it pains me to do this but I don't want to pay this much every 3 months for this.

The other utility bills are also particularly high (about $265 a month) as well, but I would never complain about those because I am responsible and pay them.

As a residential landlord, do you have any advice as to how I should handle this? I mean obviously just ignoring the landlord's texts and not sending him the requested money will lead to problems. Also, I really like this apartment with my wife and don't want to be kicked out next year, even though I realize this may be inevitable. If that's the case, I would be willing to pay the water bill starting next year if that's an option. However, he has been great to us so far but he just kind of expects us to pay this since he texted us 2 months ago even though I never really saw the text (it was to my wife and our communication wasn't great I guess, so it was kind of a misunderstanding).

Do you have any advice then how I should handle this? Like what do I say to him, what do I do?

The lease specifically says he pays cold, we pay for hot. So I pay all the gas I thought. I don't know what specifically to do though.

There is no "bill" for rent, we just send a check for the rent money through our bank once a month. This "bill" for water is just a picture he is giving us with the information written on it.

Yes, he could keep it from our security deposit. That is the main concern with this I suppose.

But also because we want to keep on good terms with him because he has been great with us and we really do want to live here for a while if we can, not til the lease expires this year.

Does anyone have any advice about what, specifically, I should do now? Like tomorrow, should I text him and what should I say? Should I just wait? Any advice on this?

Sometimes multiple units get their hot water from a single heating source that is paid for by the landlord, and then sub-meters can be installed and have it re-billed to the tenants. So yes, you can be billed for hot water depending on the lease/building.

I know we have a water heater in our laundry room though, so I think in this case our apartment water is being heated from that room.

Yeah there's only one water bill unless hot water means gas that heats up the water. Either way take it to small claims court and settle it there?

But what, now, should I do? Text him? Ignore the bill?

And please consider that, for what it's worth, the landlord has been good to us, no other problems with the apartment at all, we really really don't want to move, and I hope that we can continue living here next year after the lease expires, but I'm worried if we end up not paying the water he'll just find different tenants that do pay it next year. I feel kind of extorted for this though since I used water as I normally would under the assumption that I wasn't directly paying for the amount (not a lot, but still that was my mindset) and thus I wasn't too concerned when there was a leak in the sink for the first few weeks we were in this apartment.

Just talk to him and try and work something out.
>hey joe, I know you want me to pay for water, but thats not what the lease says
>how about I give you $30 a month extra starting this month and we can re-write the lease when its time to renew and move the water bill over to me.

Unless he is completely new to landlording, or a raging asshole, you can negotiate a good deal for the both of you.

Well you need to decide what your willing to put up with. If he's too much of a nigger to even scan the bill it doesn't seem like someone you should worry about staying on good terms with.

You could explain that you can't (key word, *can't*) do it out of principal. That's the most likely to end amicably.

You also might as well read if you have other protections, I don't think you can be kicked out solely for following the lease. But I don't know and that quickly becomes a losing battle.

>>how about I give you $30 a month extra starting this month and we can re-write the lease when its time to renew and move the water bill over to me.

This is "eat the eggs" tier advice

He is completely new to landlording, hence his mistake, but he's not a complete asshole. The thing is he's like 50 something and I'm 21, so he knows he can kind of intimidate me.

Any improvements to his message then?

I mean, I guess I'm kind of entitled to live here til the end of the year, it's just that I don't want to be kicked out starting next year either because this area is right next to where I work so it's nice. Likewise, if something breaks like the drain stops working again or something, I kind of want to be able to call him and have him fix it again, like he did in the past. He takes good care of this place, I'll admit that.

I don't know....

My mother also kind of suggested trying to negotiate it down to like half, but I'm not so sure.

Is this in the UK?

There is no way to differentiate between hot and cold water on a bill.

Either water is included or it isn't. This should be in your lease contract.

>landlord agrees to pay for water
>later changes his mind
>it's criminal to expect him to uphold his end of the bargain
Are you OP's landlord?

This is in the USA.

Well that's the way it's written on the lease contract and he specifically said outloud he was paying for water when we signed the lease. 2 months into it he says he made a mistake and got new information and now 4 months into this we get this bill.

>Any improvements to his message then?
Nope it depends how bad you want to live there. If you're willing to cede a bit to have a good relationship you'll probably have to do something like that.
Paying the water bill going forward would be reasonable enough.

You say he's not an asshole, but he expects you to deal with his mistake. Would you have done the same thing? It's kind of an asshole move in my opinion. And when he jacks up the rent next year, your having paid the water bill out of the goodness of your heart won't mean anything to him. Give an inch and they take a mile.

My advice is that as a renter your only bargaining chip is that you can pick up and move. If you leave he needs to find new tenants.

Just remember people are snakes and you have a business relationship with this man. If the situation was reversed he'd tell you to fuck off so quick. In fact try this, tell him you made a mistake and don't want to pay for hot water. See? Its absurd.

>he has been great with us

Looks like you can ruin your relationship with him or pay right away. Remember, 'winning' is best with no fighting

>UK
>$

>Looks like you can ruin your relationship with him or pay right away. Remember, 'winning' is best with no fighting
This doesn't mean being a bitch though. Be diplomatic and firm, address that you want to maintain a good relationship but you already negotiated the lease.

After a year's time, he's allowed to give 2 months notice if he wants us to move out, as are we to him if we intend to move out.

But it sounds like if I give in and pay the water, I'm essentially gambling $1000+ on this guy not looking for new tenants, because I actually do want to live there longer.

I think somewhere in the middle might be best. Try to split the bill moving forward til the end of the year or something and then take it on after that.

But you agree with the message the other guy suggested though? Anything you would change in his message?

Because if not I will try to initiate this this week with a text message like that.

>Listen, I told you two months ago after speaking with the housing association that you would be responsible for this bill. You should have told me back then.
Anything then?

How do I get someone to back me? I can't afford a lawyer but anyone who could act like that, perhaps even my mother, would suffice. She was there when we negotiated the deal with him for the lease and when I signed it, along with a realtor, so that could work maybe.

First you need to verify if this bill is real or he's just trying to scam you. Ask him to show you the bill and give you a copy. Ask HSA if it's legit. From there you can re-evaluate the situation. I know moving sucks and finding a new place does too but do you really want a landlord that is trying to pull one over you or is so incompetent that they spring this bill on you one month in?

Just start looking for a new apartment and consider small claims. Could very well be a bait and switch situation where he knows to lower the rent costs about 100 before competitors in the area, you move in and then springs a surprise bill on you --- and you just moved so you don't want to look for another apartment and move again. Either way it's a bad situation.

Law fag here. It's his mistake, which he has admitted, so why should you pay for that?

I don't know the position in the US, but here the landlord has an obligation to keep the property in a good state of repair, so you may not need to worry about him keeping the place well maintained if you don't bend to his will (though I realise there are practical issues with this)

Determine if paying will benefit you in the long run. If yes, determine how much your willing to pay.

>The lease says xyz.
Period. Leave it at that. The he said, she said doesn't matter and it's like anything else where talking to much will hurt you.

If your willing to pay:
Depending on the response, you say something like
>lets find a middle ground
Then negotiate it like a job. Get him to give the first number or offer.

If your not willing to pay:
>muh principals, muh want to stay on good terms

Here too he is responsible for certain things like making sure the plumbing works, etc., while we are responsible for other, smaller things.

This thread is mostly just me asking what, exactly, I should text to him when dealing with this. We've had no problems until now and he's been really helpful and he didn't seem to consider this a big deal, just something typical since he'd already texted us about it months ago. Disagreeing with him on it could turn him around quickly. So I'm just asking how to approach this as far as texting him, calling him.

>Lease says landlord pays for all "cold water" but tenants pay for "hot water"
That's a big red flag

>Ask HSA if it's legit
Yeah this too (if and only if you are willing to pay).

You also seriously DON'T need a lawyer. Definitely not now and likely not even if things are ugly.
Small claims amounts to:
>what does each person claim
>what does the lease say
Usually one party is delusional or stupid and feels entitled to something even though the paperwork says something completely different. In this case it's open and shut since there is nothing to even argue about, as you'd both agree on the facts the other person just dense.

>"cold water" but tenants pay for "hot water"
It's poorly worded, but pretty clearly means you pay for heating.

Alright, but only because I want to keep a good relationship because I hope to live here next year as well, and let's assume the bill is legit for the sake of this argument (I will verify it and if it's not I can handle it from there no problem).

Is the best opening line to him really
>Hi. My wife let me know that you intend to have me pay for the water, but that's not what's stated in the least agreement.

Is that my opening text to him, for later this week?

Are you retarded? Don't pay. If he wants his money he can lawyer up and you can just lol with a pic of your lease.

That's as good a start as any. Get more information from him regarding this. See what he says to you mentioning the lease terms.

From there you can better determine what you say. If you are set on staying in that property you can try negotiate so that he would be more likely to renew the lease.

I personally would hold him to the exact wording of the lease, but that might discourage lease renewal.

Say what you have suggested as the opener line, and from that you will just need to take it as it comes.

Ok I will start with that line.

>Is the best opening line to him really
Yes. Keep it terse. Be extremely careful of what you say in text, assume if you agree to something you'll be on the hook for it.

You both know where the other person stands so negotiate accordingly. Does he really want to find new tenants? The inbetween time could be as much as the bill itself.

If your apartment has hot water baseboard heating, that's what it's probably referring to, and not domestic hot water.

There's a water heater in this apartment if that's what you mean.

Go to small claims court. No need for a lawyer and it should be less than $50 to file. I had a friend who took his landlord to small claims court for something similar and won

When the heat is on in your apartment where does the warmth come from? Does hot air come in through vents or is there a pipe running around the bottom of the outside walls?

It's a few bucks.

Talk it out with the LL and reach a compromise.

If it's less than $1,000 it ain't worth losing sleep over anons!!!

Damn son! I didn't know water was so expensive in other countries. Here it's 15-35€ month.

>Lease says landlord pays for all "cold water" but tenants pay for "hot water"

It probably meant water is covered by the landlord but electric/gas (whatever your water heater uses) is paid for by the tenant.

Many landlords do this in the USA because water is cheap but electric/gas is more expensive.

>Do we actually have to pay this?

Probably not. Threaten him with legal action if he tries to make you pay.

>My mother also kind of suggested trying to negotiate it down to like half, but I'm not so sure.
>Women in charge of negotiating

Just refuse to pay it, but in a nice way. Say you're fine if he wants to rewrite the terms at the end of the lease, but until then you'll pay what you agreed to pay and nothing more.

>Lease says landlord pays for all "cold water" but tenants pay for "hot water"
Do people honestly not know how this works?
You get a bill for WATER. You have a water heater in you're building that HEATS the water using electricity, that HEATED water flows through when you turn the hot tab and regular city water flows through when you turn the cold.

The only way it's possible to charge someone for """""""""hot"""""""""" water would be to put a separate electric meter on the water heater and that would be expensive and fucking pointless.

Just tell him the lease says you don't have to pay for water and don't pay it. If he does shady stuff or kick you out he will probably do it anyway. Don't be his cuck. If your other utility costs are also this high he is probably already scamming the shit out of you. Contract your utility services if everything is correct.

You either have an electric or gas heater, either way you're paying for hot water. He might as well just not have said anything about hot water at all.

drop dead
serious unironically kys
you need to die

you may want to add another line to soften it (as well as spell lease properly)-- a question at the end?

>I'm really interested in finding a compromise that protects both of us. When might you be free ::tips vape::: milady?/msir?

>compromise
And I thought I was a pushover.

Don't offer a compromise right away.
Don't compromise at all.
But if you insist on being a cuck: let the other guy make his case first. He may just realize it's pointless which is a win for OP.