Philosophy against Internet

You can think whatever you want regardless of my or others opinion.

However you cant say you have confidence in your opinion if you dont accept ENY constructive critique or because you feel "great" not questioning your views.

You can though accept an idea without "constructive critique", all that "critique" is, is a "mind control" to get you to "overthink"

Sure, people you meet will help you with your ideas, but people online work very hard to discredit your ideas

at least on Veeky Forums, it is obvious that people do not actually care about you, your psychological conditions, and they work very hard to strip you of your perfectly valid , to replace them with "this is what we think about the subject, and this is how you should think, because we said so"

It means i can defend my position from criticism better than before, having the same amount of data to support it as before

>thinking is wrong
>critique is mind control
Im done.

>ur opinion a shit :^)
>smuganimu.jpg
>I had sex with your mom

these things hone your debate skills, huh?

Like anyone else said, criticism of your ideas only makes them better, and makes you a better person. The most stupid, disgusting people are the ones who don't want to put themselves in a discussion, because that means they are infantile and deep down they know they are absolutely wrong, no matter how much they try to hide it from themselves. I don't lose "confidence" discussing with people, it's actually one of my favorite things to do.

Well then why are you back? Genuinely curious.

There is nothing wrong with discussing.

Sharing an observation about how this site works, people don't care about "critiquing" they care about weakening your mind.

Some people might care, the word is might

I figured I'd share the love, we need to seek out truth and knowledge for ourselves. A site like this is a waste of time, and after being on here for only 30 minutes I already began to felt bad about the low quality content that people post

I usually avoid shit/bait threads

>share the love
That's not the reason and you know it user.

No it really is.

I just wanted to share how much better I feel about my own mind after I stopped posting on here I hope someone else realizes what this thread is talking about and decides to take control of themselves

If you allow people on Veeky Forums to get to you that's your own fault, weakling

You'll keep coming back though. Why do you think that is?

OP, you are correct, criticism means nothing if the replies are ad homs.

Leave this site forever.

I managed to leave once for 4-5 months, most fruitful period of my life, despite being slightly more lonely.

So why did you come back? Why does everyone come back?

Because you go through a period of boredom (not having friends etc.) and you haven't laughed in a while so you come back on Veeky Forums for a few days to laugh at all the memes and then you start coming back more and more.

Are we really here forever?

I came back to share

No.

If you want to leave Veeky Forums, the best way is to try NOT to leave but rather supplement your day with other things.

So start reading often, exercising, going out, meeting people and watch films and maybe create films. JUST DO ANYTHING ELSE YOU ENJOY.

Then, a point will come where you are doing all these other things and you haven't been on Veeky Forums, but you will decide that it's best not to come back.

If you want to quit a habit, the answer isn't to try to quit the habit, rather, the answer is to fill your life up with other things so that when the time comes where you might want to go back to your habit after a period of not doing it, your mind will kick in and say "no, better not!"

Another thing to do would be to have a constant reminder of it, or a reminder of who you once were. Maybe keep something on your wacll or a video/photograph to keep reminding yourself that you do NOT want to go back to that.

>What happened to actual discussions about ideas? Why doesn't this happen? Why is everyone so bent over backwards trying to prove each other wrong?

Some people get a rise out of pissing other people off, and the anonymity of this site encourages that behavior. There are no stakes here except what you personally invest in opinions or statements; the ones who have been here longer become less invested and prey on those who are overly invested. There is the potential here for reward without the danger of social consequences.

...

After many years I've done a lot to check myself from saying stupid shit and filtering out others who just have a stick up their ass.

So no, I don't feel better when taking a break.

>Which sounds better
Opinions, by their very nature, can't be undermined. You could say "my favorite colour is blue", and there is no way to argue against that. Saying "blue is the best colour" could be argued, but that's not the same as a preference. I would rather be wrong so long as the person who is right isn't an absolute cunt about it so that I could learn more.

>What happened to actual discussions about ideas?

They still exist, you're just having difficulty finding them. Just shitpost until you see some actual discussion, then get serious. That's what I do.

It's like how do you filter through all the nonsense why can't people just be semi serious

>You can though accept an idea without "constructive critique", all that "critique" is, is a "mind control" to get you to "overthink"

>people don't care about "critiquing" they care about weakening your mind.

>Some people might care, the word is might

>I figured I'd share the love

>we need to seek out truth and knowledge for ourselves.

All this stuff really, really sounds like some kind of new-age bullshit. The kind the fucks people up. Please, user, if you are not baiting, think again about the way you think about things. Rationality it's what gives value to arguments, people rationally trying to confute them is always a good thing.

I started reading Plato's Apology yesterday.

He has Socrates pretty much dissect everything from a victim's perspective of the futility of battling trolls when no matter what you say, they are anonymous, and will persist contiguously between all generations. Even if you address the topic conclusively to the point of irrefutation, by your having done that and proven yourself the wiser, you beckon another camp that attempts to undermine your character using what eventuate in paradoxical fallacies.

It really came to me as a right hook, because it discouraged my future endeavors. What is the point of continuing my efforts if they'll end up snuffed by the conspiring of trolls? There surely can't be as many intelligent people as myself to sympathize with me, since the present state of affairs on earth are like a larger scale Ancient Rome, and one man surely can't make a dent in the established Senate.

But ultimately I know that I put myself in this cynicistic position, do to my very folly addressed by OP. I've spent too much time loitering in a den of vipers and I should known I'd get bit eventually. But it's not just the nature of Veeky Forums that is the problem. It's anything you do, because the mind is a repository for everything. Thought, chemistry that enters your body (the pineal gland is second only to the kidney in stimulating blood flow), melatonin (produced by your pineal gland from the sunlight that enters your eyes), and the subconcious thoughts you collect by reading negativity that in turn become part of your conscious and physical chrysalis.

Thanks OP. I needed a reason to pick up the Bible anyway. I think you've given me a push by finding a fellow empathizer on my thoughts.

>Thought, chemistry that enters your body (the pineal gland is second only to the kidney in stimulating blood flow), melatonin (produced by your pineal gland from the sunlight that enters your eyes), and the subconcious thoughts you collect by reading negativity that in turn become part of your conscious and physical chrysalis.
KEK. Well memed, my friend.

>Which sounds better :
>>A) Having your own confidence in your opinion
>>B) Having your opinion undermined by others
A sounds better but B actually is better.

sophistry is a perfectly valid form of debating as long as it gets the job done

Nah man have a good day

...

I think what a lot of people seem to miss in discussions of Veeky Forums's culture of negativity is that it's not like most of the posts here are well-thought-out criticisms.
For the most part, they wouldn't pass as legitimate logical arguments in a first grade classroom. I'd be okay with people undermining my opinion if they actually fucking gave me a logical argument against it, but that's almost never the case. It's not even negative feedback, it's just pure vitriol. It's self-reinforcing and self-advancing.
This place can't be "saved" by any means, but I can't really see myself frequenting any other sites for actual discussion on a regular basis, so I just make an effort to ignore shitposting and try to create actual discussion whenever possible.

Ultimately, I think we should expect better of Veeky Forums's userbase, but it's hard to say what we can really do.

Be the change you want to see in the world, user.
How do you use logic to demonstrate the value of using logic to someone who doesn't value logic?
Generally, I'll encounter a topic (election, reboot, announcement,...) and come here because I often find interesting enough discussion here. Most other sites feel strained (?) somehow. Barely any of them even have auto-update functionality.

That's kind of obvious. Despite behavior that would imply otherwise, I've never actually heard anyone outright disagree with the idea that critical discussion developes ones mind.
The issue here, imo, is that we're not actually typically engaged in this kind of discussion. It's just two people insulting the shit out of each other while throwing in an argument here and there. Personally I don't care since if I feel I'm not having fun with it I'll move on. It's just that, again imo, this seems to have become 90% of online "discussions."

Anonymity rarely seems to truly breed the kind of discourse that many often tout about.

>It's just two people insulting the shit out of each other while throwing in an argument here and there.
That hasn't really been my experience! I've enjoyed most of the arguments I've had on here.

It is frustrating, though, when the other guy ducks out of the thread with no goodbye when he gets tired of it, or when it's clear he's lost. Which I'll admit to being guilty of too, the times I've waded into a discussion I wasn't ready for and gotten BTFO.

The problem isn't negativity or arguments on this board. It's not criticism at all.

The issue stems from people that don't attempt to/can't make real arguments and instead focus on just one aspect of a discussion or just spam 4 word meme responses.

>How do you use logic to demonstrate the value of using logic to someone who doesn't value logic?

Like you said. Be the change you want to see.

"Know, it is as has been given of old, "Lo, it is within thine own self that ye must find peace, if ye would have peace with others." If you would have friends, show thyself friendly, if you would have love, be lovely in thy treatment of an thy association with others. If you would find patience, brotherly love, kindness, manifest it in self and it will come to thee." - Cayce

I don't think that's the issue.
It's like would you rather be happy or would you rather be right?

I think alot of people waste time being unhappy and spend it on trying to win an argument rather than just let it go and do something else

This is a great question OP, I'm actually really excited to answer this because I've been thinking about it a lot lately. It started with a friend of mine abandoning his smart phone for a shitty flippy one (can we call it analog?), anyway, I thought it was ridiculous. This is coming in two parts

pt1

Here's the thing about the internet: it's user sensitive. That's why I always kind of flinch when I here someone talk about the degenerative effects of the internet. Of course there's some of that from a moral relativistic way; People love playing with boundaries and pushing other people's buttons. If you just use the internet to fight with people, which is very easy since there's always someone else who wants to throw down. You have to be really careful with this thing, I'm still getting used to it. Sure there's addiction but I think that's just our innate compulsion to escalate for the next thing. If it wasn't the internet, it'd be gambling, it'd be drinking, maybe even making money on the stock market which is my point: from a morally relativistic stand point, yeah, you're probably right that it can have a negative effect on people in that it just offered more ways we can hurt ourselves, however, we're going to hurt ourselves regardless. There's nothing inherent in the internet, drugs, or vegas that MAKES us glom onto them, that's something in us.

Secondly, this parts going to be a bit speculative and it might be completely wrong and just simply the result having a very shallow understanding of these topics. That said, I think the internet can you make you smarter. First though, I want to challenge our perception of being "smart" or "intelligent" and establish some common terms. People often tend to confuse those for being "knowledgeable," I don't think I agree with that but I could see how they could be correlated and mistaken for each other.

pt 2

One of my biggest issues with how we interpret intelligence. I feel like it's often seen too individualistically. Simply put, I think you're a reflection of all the people and things you've read around you. In a more technical way, you are as smart as the network of information you have access too, this includes people, neighbors, libraries, just imagine all those things listed in this imaginary matrix. I want you to picture what that looked like in the 70s, and then what that looks like now. The difference is like the resolution of your gameboy and 4k tv (didn't do the math).

Now that's all well and good but what do I have to prove this? Feral children. If you look at children that grew up outside civilization, or more importantly language, they never get passed, mentally, age 6 or so. Not sure this proves anything yet but it does help establish that your environment can definitely put a ceiling on you intellectually.

Time for the big guns now, there's this semi-popular idea that started floating around recently called Holonomic Brain Theory, or the Hologram Brain. Basically, without getting to technical, sentience, or at least the way we store information, can be represented at any size. Even simpler, imagine you're a youtube video running at 4k, that's a lot of data. Now, someone comes up to you, cracks open your head and melon balls a big chunk of your brain out, sure things will be kind of weird for a little while, maybe decreased motor function, I don't know depends what got scooped. My point is, eventually your brain can learn to adapt and rewire itself around the extrusion. Back to the youtube video, in order to compensate for that loss, rather than just skipping like a scratched record the resolution drops from 4k to 1080p.

All of this is based on networks of information. I think intelligence is less about you and the poverty of your network. But how does this relate to your question? Here it is: Of course there are some things that are bad about the internet, I agree. However, I think what it means to humanity greatly outweighs the losses. Sure, you can bang your fingers with hammers but does that mean you should make about about the "philosophy against hammers?" That's fucking retarded.

^that was pt 3 btw

Also, I want to mention Holonomic Brain theory in terms of just information storage, like on servers.

Basically, you've got 2 different types of connections TCP and UDP. One is for secure connections, where high fidelity is paramount, think of banks and things like the stock market. You check your hashes and you confirm that's the other person you want to talk to and you shake hands. Then you have UDP, which is for dealing with a massive amount of data usually from streaming, thinking netflix. How are they so consistent? Same could be said of tech giants, like facebook. Well, they use a method of holonomic data storage. Rather than keeping a couple servers and one guy to manage them to make sure they never fail, they assume it will fail and simply use hundreds, if not thousand, redundancies.

>Why is everyone so bent over backwards trying to prove each other wrong?
When 2 people agree the conversation ends. When 2 people argue the thread gets bumped. When a person is dumb (or a troll) they tend to argue more.

The solution is to avoid dumb or trolling anons without sweeping up honest anons in the mix, or go to reddit, though in reddit banter and discussion of anything controversial is banned/downvoted.

Same fag here again. I forgot to mention the most important part. It's going to sound cheesey but I need you to bare with me, I promise this is going somewhere and I'm sorry for blowing up your thread like this. I think Veeky Forums is a beautiful place.

Everyone starts off with the assumption that Veeky Forums is a shithole full of shitty fucking people. And it is, for the most part. Here's the thing I like about it though, no pretense. In your typical day to day, you've got a reputation so you have to honey your words and because most people aren't that confrontational, they'll usually agree with whatever you have to say because they don't want to hurt your feelings. This is why academia is fucked. What's that Max Planck quote, "Science moves at the rate of obituaries?" People get too enmeshed in their ideas and they mistake them for themselves since they were taught that the way they make a living was through their reputation, which they took to be their "ideas". That doesn't exist here. Everyone is Anonymous. This is the perfect place to share ideas.

That's not even the best part. I want to talk about it's ugliness because Veeky Forums does something that I don't think I've ever seen done outside of Brutalism and early Punk Rock. Have you ever tried repeating a word? Doesn't matter what, any word, just repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it, and repeat it. Eventually the word starts to blur in your mouth, the edges begin to bleed together until finally it's just a smear of sound. That's what Veeky Forums does, except with it's filth. After awhile it just fades into the background and what's left over are is something you could only find on the broadest bandwidth of humanity. The reason people hate us and treat us like the attic child of the internet is because they haven't experienced this. Why would they? We built civilization, cable television and the suburbs to away from this which is the harshness of nature.

pt1

pt2

Then we became polite to reflect our environment. A polite world with polite people.

That's not real though. That worlds ends right at our borders. We've fractured ourselves from humanity and called ourselves "good people."

Good people suffer. Humans suffer. I can't tell you how many people I've seen die on this fucking site. I don't do it because I have some weird perversion, I do it because it knocks the rose colored glasses off my face. The wind becomes harsher while the sun stings your eyes almost intentionally. That's why I'm here, to feel the most complete and sincere expression of humanity on the internet. It's fucking beautiful and how dare fucking come onto my board and proselytize to me about our sins.

I hope the polar ice caps melt and you die drowning. get fucked op.

gay

Redundancies are different from backups when it comes to databases.

>tfw you cant even be real about trump and talk about him because trump supporters demand trump correctness of Veeky Forums

>The most stupid, disgusting people are the ones who don't want to put themselves in a discussion, because that means they are infantile and deep down they know they are absolutely wrong
maybe some people just know they're dumb and accept their limits, and instead of debating geo politics on Facebook just go watch honey boo boo instead

literally nothing wrong with that

cuck

You might be right, this is totally out of my wheel house. Redundancies might be the wrong word because I wasn't talking about backups. I guess I just called them that because of the fractal nature that information is stored. One little grouping of servers in Pennsatucky can have the same data, albeit at a smaller resolution, than some giant server farm Northern California.

You're right. People are fucking shit about having an honest dialog. Trump's a meme though, good look trying to pry that away from Veeky Forums. Just think of it like an ideological flu. In a few months, maybe years, once we've felt the full extent of Trump, including appointing a climate change denier to the EPA, people will swing back around.

lol, it's like Veeky Forums has tourettes

I seek multiple different opinions on things I am researching, to see which one stands up to reason/fact the most. Even when I'm sure, I'd like to hear what others have to say that might question the validity to my standings. As long as their line of thought/reasoning is sound, I will probably have something new/interesting to hear about.

>Do you also like traps?
I understand what you said and it helped me understand OP. For me Veeky Forums is the holy grail of learning. You have the Veeky Forums wiki, the Veeky Forums wiki and the /int/ wiki and there are probably more of these that are good and I don't know about.
I've never really felt any negativity, like the one OP is describing. Probably because I very rarely post here. Maybe it is a different experience for lurkers, shitposters and people getting shitposted. But is the real world that different from Veeky Forums? Daily in my university people are being disregarded for being greek, turk or from Cyprus; for talking funny or being unattractive and generally stupid. It's nothing new under the sun. Yet OP claims he feels a great difference when he stops. I think OP is either baiting hard or is a thin-skinned crybaby.
If 2 4 6 8 or 0 OP is baiting
If 1 3 5 7 9 OP is a fag

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people not admitting to themselves that they are stupid or that they can be wrong, but being convinced of having the absolute truth while avoiding any actual occasion to test it.

Who still wastes time here?