Why were the Irish seen as ''non white'' even tho they are one of the whitest people

True

False

It's not that the weren't seen as non-white just second-class and inferior by default. The were literally the 'white niggers' of new england

This is true.

>The only Europeans in the US who had their whiteness contested were the Finns and a court eventually ruled that they were indeed white.

In the 20th century, sure. But before that the definition was narrower. Even Germans were not considered white in the 1700s.

Again, a myth. Legally they were considered white from day one. Sure Anglos acted condescending to them but that had nothing to do with their legal racial status, otherwise they wouldn't be able to vote and get citizenship.

go look up what Benjamin Franklin said about germans and swedes, among others

I know what you're talking about and Benjamin Franklin's fantasies had absolutely nothing to do with legal whiteness. Show me a single legal document that classified the Germans or the Irish as non-whites, it doesn't exist.

>Even Germans were not considered white in the 1700s.

Is that based on that Ben Franklin quote where he says that only Anglo-Saxons (including the Saxons on continental Europe) belong to the white race? You know that the opinion of one person doesn't mean that it was the consensus at that time?

It's a meme.

Also you need to come up with memes and to justify your beliefs/policies/treatment of your colonial subjects "we won't spend education on x people they are incapable of proper thinking" etc etc.

Ireland was one of the British empires first colonies wasn't it?

prognathism

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Well, Black Irish were a thing. It could be used to argue that there's some close link between all Irish people and the swarthier peoples down south, if you are trying really hard.

Also, bad diets can also stunt your height and inteligence. So extreme poverty tends to prepetuate itself and actually has visible effects on phenotypes. WASPs could use the differences to justify their opression of the Irish, who were extremely poor.

they were only labeled as non-white as a legal excuse for Brits to treat them poorly.

t. Polack scum in my country

Irish people don't even look like that

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It's important to remember how thoroughly anglicised modern Irish Americans are in comparison to the first Irish immigrants to America.

Very few of them spoke English. In fact Latin was more commonly spoken among the Irish than English was.

They dressed really strangely. Long tunics with no pants, usually no shoes, and huge woollen cloaks. It would make them stand out.

Also, Catholicism.

Plus the "non white" thing is a meme. They were looked down upon and treated very poorly but I don't think they were considered non white.

>Saoirse Ronan
The fuck kind of medieval fantasy RPG name is that?

Ugly like all British women

hmm what did he mean by this?

You're not white if you have black hair
wtf is wrong with people these days

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He is definitely not white!
Who is that? Your grandpa?

They make decisions like blacks. That's why most trailer parks are loaded with potato slingers.

An Italian actor. If you honestly don't consider Italians, Spaniards, Greeks, etc. as white you're just being ridiculous.

guy on the bottom right looks like he could be related to the assad family t6h

It was an excuse made by the Upper class anglo's to justify their horrible actions in the Scottish Highlands and Ireland. They basically said here even though these lads are the same as us physically and genetically we will classify them as being an older more primitive idingenous race of Britain and Ireland (Celts) because A. They won't Co-operate with us or be like us, and B. So we have a valid excuse to act out our own interests in their countries via the belief that hey we're racially superior Germanics and you are primitive Iberian Celts because we are superior we can do what we want.

If they're swarthy they're not white

I've always considered caucasian as structural/cranial features rather than coloring.

The Irish aren't 100% Celtic. In fact, they've been race-mixed for over a thousand years with Nordic, Scottish, English and Spanish populations. The modern British Isles is more racially similar than anywhere else in Europe, and differences between Irish and English populations, (excluding secluded rural areas) tend to be small and mostly imagined. The Irish and English have mostly fought in the past due to socio-economic and religious reasons. There is no consequential ethnic difference between the "anglo" and irish.

t. "I don't know the history of the British Isles"

It's both!
I'm a racist bastard though, so don't take my word for it.

Ethiopians are white?

>There is no consequential ethnic difference between the "anglo" and irish.

Sure there is. Anglos are pricks and the Irish are a great bunch of lads.

I'm half Anglo, half Irish

What does that make me?

Yes they are, everybody knows that Obama, for example, is half white.

The other half, of course, being the perfidious beady eternal anglo cockroach.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham
>Stanley Ann Dunham (November 29, 1942 – November 7, 1995) was the mother of Barack Obama, the 44th President of the United States, and an American anthropologist who specialized in economic anthropology and rural development.[1]
>She was of predominantly English ancestry, with some German, Swiss, Scottish, Irish, and Welsh ancestry.

>it quickly devolves into a /pol/ thread complete with morphology, cranium measurements and skin tone debates

Christ, you people can't help yourselves.

it was that from the beginning

It's like a time machine to the 19th century

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You're a cunt, but that's ok. I like cunts.

> labeled white

thanks for proving him right i guess?

Quite cool how the British Isles and Ireland have that kind of phenotype with really dark hair and blue eyes.

Atlantid. That's what they are they're are basically Mediterranean-Nordics. The typical Irishman has brown or black hair and Blue eyes.

It's because original inhabitants of the british isles were from Hispania/Iberia

Wait irish are seen as non white whay about scots?

If you think this guy is white, you have no business discussion who is white and not.

Hell fucking no, they're mixed race at best and black at worst.

He's pretty white to me.

t. Black guy who acknowledges whites come in different colors and ethnic groups.

He's not black I'll tell ya hwat

at best or worst?
Nice way to show you are being impartial.

Half nigger lad! Top of the morning to ya, otherwise!

because they act like niggers

he only said they're swarthier then anglos, which is true. He was trying to restrict whiteness to the fairest skinned people of europe, he wasn't contesting the genetic racial purity of germans or swedes

How the fuck were Irish Iberian? When did Spaniards develop Irish people? Wtf

>Spanish populations
Wat

Arabs are considered White in the US.

What are the good colours I'm this map?

This.

Then why exactly are irish and scots a based, non-autistic semi-barbarian bro tier race and the anglos are all autistic faggots?

Kind of like Norwegians or Finns as compared to Swedes.

>that map
Does this mean that the Irish, Welsh, Scottish, English, French and Spanish are all the same people basically? Interesting.

>he only said they're swarthier then anglos, which is true
What? Is this 18th century shitposting.
English are much swarthier than Germans, Swedes, and white Americans based on immigrants and tourists that come to my country New Zealand.

And Germans, Belgian, Dutch etc.

Also shows that Danes are in fact not Scandinavian.

y dna has little to do with anything, based on y dna Hitler was north African.
Autosomal DNA is the accurate way of comparing ethnicities.

I didn't mean "at best" as for my personal preference. It's just that whenever I see people group Ethiopians under Caucasoid, I have to ask: which ones? There are dozens of people native to Ethiopia who range from borderline North Africa to almost blue-black.

This is true on a genetic scale. Europeans and Middle Easterners/North Africans are two parts of a whole race.

>Spanish populations
I hope you're talking about the original Iberian populations and not buying into that stupid shit about the Spanish armada

"White" = caucasian.
You know it to be true.

>people think ''''white'''' and ''''black'''' are races or ethnicities
This shit is an American invention because they're all mongrels.

We came from Iberia before the Spanish and Portuguese existed.

Germans and Scandis are Slavs?

euros think different shades of white people is on the same level of diversity as it is in the US lol

An American white, black and chinaman have more in common than a Norwegian, Spaniard and German would.

(u)

He was trying to restrict whiteness to the fairest skinned people of Europe

That would be East and West Slavs, not Saxons.

I presume you've never read H. P. Lovecraft's work?He stated many times that Germans were treated like shit because they were cheaper to hire and were quite inept at assimilating into American culture.

>That would be East and West Slavs, not Saxons.

Delusion of this pan-slavist faggot is reaching new heights.

>t. "I don't know the history of the British Isles"

This is literally how anglos justified the highland clearances

Current East Germany was mostly Slavic back in the day, but it was slowly conquered by Charlemagne's Empire.

Anglo propaganda.

Celt-Iberian.

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Also, Irich mythology talks about invasion of Celtiberians, which overthrew Tuatha Dé Danann.

Order of settling of Ireland in Irish mythology:
>The Lebor Gabála tells of Ireland being settled (or 'taken') six times by six groups of people: the people of Cessair, the people of Partholón, the people of Nemed, the Fir Bolg, the Tuatha Dé Danann, and the Milesians. The first four groups are wiped out or forced to abandon the island, the fifth group represent Ireland's pagan gods,[1] while the final group represent the Irish people (the Gaels).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebor_Gabála_Érenn which in this case, is as good source as any.

>and a court eventually ruled that they were indeed white.

You may be joking but Finnish kids were regularly bullied as "China-Swedes" and "Roundheads" by proper white people. What's been considered white in Sweden (and the length they would go to ensure it stayed that way) is a great way to show how cultural and historical context shape what's considered white, a strange term to begin with since people tend to be pink and not white.

news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/199706/10_losurem_finnpoor/finnpoor2.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=wdyu_Fr-pR0

Delusions based on modern-day genetic and anthropological studies, not 19th century pseudo-history and political racialism.

Fun fact, the gene for blondness correlates the strongest with the R1a, of whom the most populous distributors in Europe are Slavic, not Germanic people.

Besides, it'd be better for you to provide counterarguments instead of mere insults, if you have any, of course.

>Irish seen as ''non white''
You've been spending too much time on /pol/, friend.
And the Anglos are hacks who call anyone they don't like "non whites"

Bullshit
What about the wogs in australia?
^This dude is right.

>They never were seen as non white and neither were Slavs or Italians

Preposterous lie, the Poles were even targeted by the KKK.

Because racism is literally a political tool.
Go read Rotem Kowner's papers summarizing European attitudes towards the Japanese for example, see how they regularly did 180° turns. The Ainu got a similar treatment, people guessed they were everything from white-skinned australoids to quasi-Inuits to our long-lost Aryan cousins depending on their agenda.
If you want a full treatment of the conceptual history of race, Michael devotes many chapters in Blumenbach Hijacked to discussing historical views:
michael1988.com/