Chinese Occupation of Tibet

Yes i went there last summer and there was a post every 20 mins on the highway from the gov and they check ur passport and id and shit. Super annoying. Also a lot of corruption from local police and gov. From what i gather its to surveillance the people in case of uprising. Its understandable since china is made up on such massive demographics that if tibet were to go independent, then the other parts of china (ex.taiwan, mongolia, ethnic muslim groups, and etc) may follow suit and it will be chaos all over. I think china controls their internet for this reason, bc they dont think it would be safe if the current age china suddenly adopted full on western liberties. Just a reminder modern china isnt even 100 years old.

>"Han colonization of Tibet is GENOCIDE!"
>"African colonization of Europe is not white genocide, you racist!"

When I was in China/Tibet the Tibetans were lovely, welcoming people and Han Chinese are the worst people in the world so free Tibet imo

I thought it was the Pakistanis and Arabs we had to worry about, now I can't enjoy West Indian food either? Man, racism is no fun

So can you explain? I'm not denying you, I just want a more cohesive understanding and summary of what's going on there.
Didn't know about that. Just found a source from BBC. Thanks.
Whoa, fuck. That's crazy. Is there any source on experiences like yours I could use? Of course "I found it on Veeky Forums" won't go over well in an academic setting. And also I was under the impression that Mongolia was independent?

Has someone complained that it was a theoarcy yet?

Inner Mongolia i meant. Srry desu its personal experience so no academia reference. But you could say considering how big china is and all the different ethnicities its proper to keep it under control. Taiwan is already a strain on the gov with their call for independence. Ohh also do some research on the religious ppl of Tibet. They are deeply devout to religion and thinks of dala lama as some god king and will do anything he says. And we know the lama is not exactly in best relation with the chinese gov so if he start shit and tell all the ppl to go apeshit, its gonna be bloody, remember majority of locals are very religious. Srry no source all personal experience.

They are not trying to kill them. They are just trying to swamp them with han settlers. It worked very well in Xinjiang so China would be dumb not to pursue that policy in Tibet.

Kind of this. China isn't as brutal as Imperial Japan and its borders are unlikely to extend much further unless Russia collapses internally, in which case I could see Mongolia being annexed, as it should be. Fucking horse niggers will get whats coming for them.

yes

When I was in London all the muslims I met were nice upstanding folk and the white """""people"""" were all fucking chavs or had that trademark anglo look of perfidy.

You guys have no respect for the tibetan people or their culture and beliefs. Fuck all of you

I used to think I was in favor of a free Tibet until I saw how China's borders looked minus Tibet. It just looks fucking ugly.

Sounds about right. Treating a guest well is a very laudable part of their culture

>if tibet were to go independent, then the other parts of china (ex.taiwan
>ex.taiwan
t. Mainlander

>Taiwan is already a strain on the gov with their call for independence.
It already is independent you fucking Mainlander. Holy shit

It'd work if East Turkestan and inner Mongolia became independent as well. Also much of historical Tibet is outside of the TAR too. Ironically all this would barely make a dent in the overall Chinese population

>Already independent
Kek you forgot to say farewell to your britsh 100 year rule and return to papa. Just bc u say u are "independent" doesnt mean u are. Get over it white bois, even the UN recognize Taiwan is part of china

>mfw when taiwanfegs say they rule china when in reality its other way around.

Always pops up. Its a way to easily spot a lunatic leftist and/or a Chinese shill

Tibet prior to the Chinese occupation was a theocracy, almost feudal. Very cool, but life was literally nothing to the peasant under monk rule. Their standard of living went up under the Chinese at first, but is now declining again. Freedom would be most beneficial for Tibet now.

The Nazi's actually had a really good relationship with Tibet, Himmler was infatuated with Central Asia and Shambhala mysticism.

Also Tibetan Buddhists practice literally black magic, like by name.

It's a done thing at this point. The west has been whining about it ever since it happened in the 50s but the PRC's stance has basically been "idc lol", which over the decades has tempered the free tibet movement as people realise the situation is just not going to change. Chinese strategy in the region seems similar to that employed elsewhere, i.e. encourage mass Han migration and encourage calm through economic growth, and that should continue to work fine as long as the economy holds up. China is in it for the long-run, they're willing to endure some unrest and reputational stains in order to get what they want in the long run.

It is pretty justified.

Tibet during the 1700s, was a mess of competing Monasteries who ruled like Feudal kings. It surrendered its sovereignity to China -willingly- in a deal they made during the First and Second Gurkha wars, when Tibet was invaded by the Nepalese Gurkhas and fragmenting Tibet was no position to resist them. China literally had Tibet fall on its lap.

Fast forward to the decline of the QIng in the late 19th Century, Tibet suddenly want out of the Chinese Empire due to the failures of the Qing. The Chinese saw this as a betrayal and a rebellion, but cant do anything about it when after the 1911 revolution, in 1912, Tibbs declared independence w/ British backing. Multiple Chinese warlords & the ROC vowed that they will Make China Great Again by retaking the territory of the last Imperial Dynasty which by that point they consider China's proper borders. Ergo they made it their mission to one day retake Tibet.

After the Warlord Period, Civil War, Second Sino-Jap War, WWII, Resumption of Civil War, Mao Zedong achieved that promise when Tibet was retaken and the British et al can't do anything about it.

>PERFIDIOUS ALBION ETERNAL ANGLO REEEE
Hi German poster.

You have to consider that we might just have a moral obligation to stand up for Tibet at every chance - not just for the Tibetans but for the world and our children. You want that dominating? A dictatorship that throws u in jail and tortures you for owning a photo of the Dalai Lama?

Still Tibet had an interesting culture. It's a pity to think it will just die off within the next fifty years.

>he actually think the PRoC controls Taiwan
You can't make this up.

Why is a generation bound to unquestioningly uphold the decisions of a dead one?

I don't care if Tibet was a theocracy. Just destroying a whole people for that isn't justified.

>muh rightful clay

Human beings do not live for hundreds of years. Ancestral claims are a spook.

China pretty much has claim to most of the world as well since it is the middle kingdom after all.

Im not saying the party controls taiwan but it certainly would be wrong to deny it as China territory given the history before and after brit 100 years.

>Chinks fugging died building roads and railways going up to Tibet. Infrastructure = Genocide.
>Han settlers- the people who are educated enough to make the area economically viable- being sent to Tibet = genocide.
k

It's not Chinese territory since they don't control it. No one cares about historical claims. The ability and will to enforce your will is the only thing that matters.

>Moral obligation
The west doesn't have much credibility in these kinds of matters, China can spout whataboutisms all day. Like in the SCS matter they can point to some old document showing the legitimacy of the occupation, and while it might not convince the western public it is enough to stall negotations, and that's all they need. China doesn't need to win the tibet debate. They just need to not lose for the next 2 generations, then it won't matter anymore.

I'm not saying I support what the PRC's past or current actions, but there are plenty of other examples of similar things happening around the world and the west is probably better off trying to intervene in other cases where it can actually have an impact.

Oh btw, your pet ROC also makes the same claims. More since they really want to recreate the old Qing borders.

Enforce will you say?

That's resource extraction from the mountain ranges of Tibet. Not only is Tibet a natural border but it's a natural resource for a growing country like China. They have been mining and making bucks from tibet for their own benefit.

There's also the fact that all of their major river originates in Tibet. Which is very crucial.

There won't be a Tibetan people next when the next century comes. That's the truth. Uyghurs are well on their way out already. The natives of inner Mongolia no longer exist as a distinct people already. The provincial Han dominated government maintains a few folkloric dance groups (of mostly ethnic Hans) and buildings to lure tourists but the local culture is dead, its remains embalmed as a spectacle.

>Utilizing the region economically.
>Bad.
K

Wonderful for the average Tibetan and their lives dramatically improved under the Chinese rule, bad for the lamas and landowners who got fucked over by the Chinese collectivization reforms on land. The latter composes the exiled Tibetans who support the Dalai Lama.

Any source on the "standard of living" claim? And also, what about the religious backlash after having the Panchen Lama "removed"? The religious control happened pretty much immediately right?
Very interesting. I didn't know Tibet originally gave themselves to China. Source?
This is a main issue I'm addressing in my papers actually.
I actually know a really nice Tibetan person, and learning about their culture is really incredible.
Seeing as how the western economy and eastern economy are pretty much irreversibly intertwined at this point, wouldn't the West have more impact than implied?
So at this point is it less cultural imperialism and more resource extraction?

Never said it's bad. The fact that they're building roads and infrastructure is not in any way a charity. It's simple resource extraction. The people of tibet benefits little to none of it and in return their identity, culture will be destroyed within few generations.

Well yeah.
The Chinese government is genociding the minority ethnic groups to subvert seperatist movements.
Just move in more and more Han until there are no mor Uyghurs left.

All the good jobs are taken by ethnic Hans and the people are getting increasingly despaired as they see the end of their culture coming. They feel alienated as neighboring city blocks turn entirely foreign and unwelcoming. It's not lamas who are rioting out immolating themselves for the most part but ordinary people getting increasingly desperate.

>ywn go back in time and prevent communist China from committing cultural genocide

It's an imperialistic agenda for China. Extract all the resources and suppress/remove the native's culture/religion/region, basically a total hegemony at this pont. The language/religion/travel restrictions are there to slowly erode the Tibetan way of living.

>The Chinese government is genociding the minority ethnic groups to subvert seperatist movements.
Western education everyone. If the Nationalists won there wouldn't be any minorities.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_under_Qing_rule#Gorkha_invasions
Though Qing hegemony Tibet started when they establisheda protectorate there vs, the Dzungar Khanate

Well there are still as many Uyghurs. It's just that they become individuals alone in a sea of Hans or small impoverished groups cornered in ghettos waiting for assimilation as the children learn a foreign language at school.

>The natives of inner Mongolia no longer exist as a distinct people already.
The irony of saying this while Inner Mongolians literally are the only Mongols left practicing their own culture as opposed to Mongolia and their Sovietization.

Not to mention why the kek would China "Genocide" one of the more loyal minorities. The only muh Independents group there is founded by Mongol diasporas in fucking America.

>Western education
That's a bit redundant.
Just call it education.

Thanks, appreciate it.
Does the Tibetan culture really pose so much of a threat to Chinese interests that they feel like they have to destroy it?
Also, I haven't heard about the Han immigration there. From context clues I'm guessing that China is giving incentive for Hans to move there, they're getting the best jobs, and through that the Uyghurs (as well as the culture) are dying out through assimilation?

China also sent their army to repel the Japanese from Korea. And recently Vietnam.

China has a history of sending their army to help out their tributaries.

And that makes the current situation good? There still won't be any minorities left. It will just take a century or so of assimilation instead of a straight up genocide.

The Confucian elites had some issue with the Tibetan Buddhist getting special treatment back in the days due to Buddhism being a big thing to some of the emperors.

Currently Tibetan culture is an issue due to it not being Han and the Tibetans not acknowledging themselves as Chinese. This is one of the major thorn to the Chinese becuase the Tibetan still see themselves as separate from the "one China" that mainstream China preaches.

You're damn right, they're all retarded and eat nothing but dairy.

The difference is that the old Chinese regimes never attempted to actively extinguish people. I doubt the Tibetan would mind much if Chinese suzerainty over the land was nominal, with little change in the daily life of people instead of the current large scale Han colonization.

>Also, I haven't heard about the Han immigration there. From context clues I'm guessing that China is giving incentive for Hans to move there, they're getting the best jobs, and through that the Uyghurs (as well as the culture) are dying out through assimilation?
IIRC there were two police organizations in china, where one was closer to a military organization and you had to be han to be part of it. For a career you must speak mandarin, but I don't think that's too strange really.
The goverment build up domestic rails so hans could settle areas with large minority populations, a lot of the infrastructure was built for those han chinese.
I was chatting with my professor like maybe 4 years ago and he mentioned that it had gotten a little better. In previous visits they had segregated schools even and the han school were much better off, but in his last visit they were integrated.

>And that makes the current situation good?
The alternative would be heavily Sinicized minorities such as the Zhuang or She would be considered Han.

> There still won't be any minorities left. It will just take a century or so of assimilation instead of a straight up genocide.
As long as there are advantages to being a minority there will be individuals who claim minority status.

You even have Han who have some non Han ancestors claim to full blooded minorities so they can reap the benefit.

Equating Sinicization with genocide is ludicrous.

>is better than your Buddhist theocracy,
>le tibetan independence people want le theocracy meme

.5 Renminbi has been deposited in your account.

>it will just die off within the next fifty years

it's already been transplanted, USA has second largest Tibetan Buddhist population. Might actually be fastest growing religion in USA, other than potentially Catholicism or maybe Mormonism.

Islam

>IIRC there were two police organizations in china, where one was closer to a military organization and you had to be han to be part of it. For a career you must speak mandarin, but I don't think that's too strange really.
There is no requirement to be Han to be in the People's Armed Police but speaking Mandarin Chinese is a given for any government position.
>The goverment build up domestic rails so hans could settle areas with large minority populations, a lot of the infrastructure was built for those han chinese.
The railways were originally built to supply troops in the Himalayas, especially after the Sino-Indian War where the Chinese were overrunning their supply lines during the offensive.

God damn it I thought the Mexicans would outbalance them.

White people in America claiming to be 1/50th Cherokee don't help keeping the Cherokee culture alive. You're on Veeky Forums. We enjoy studying vibrant, lively, distinct cultures. A dead culture is always a tragedy in an increasingly uniform world. From our point of view (and according to the admittedly broad UN definition) what China is doing is clearly a genocide.

That's not better. It means that there are enough pupils to force Mandarin onto Tibetan kids.

Genocide is destruction of another culture. Sinicization of tibet is done by the state to destroy the Tibetan culture/identity. It's by definition a genocide. Genocide doesnt have to be a violent confrontation, you can commit genocide in many ways with suppression, forced migration, displacement, etc.

So rather than let them have cultural and religious autonomy while still using the area for resource extraction and creating new jobs from said resource extraction for the natives, they'd rather engage in cultural imperialism and cause Tibetan sentiment to worsen? That doesn't really make sense to me.
Minorities being the native inhabitants of Tibet?
What advantages does a minority in Tibet have?
>Sino-Indian War
hoo boy I forgot about that completely. How much does that tie into the Tibet occupation?

I may have my work cut out for me this time.

>a fucking theocrat

i hope this fake buddhist cult leader will fuck off soon

Roman cuckolics are only 17% of the population. They were 26% 20 years ago

Read journey to the west

Indo-China relation will always be about Tibet as long as China continues to antagonize Tibet. Indo-china war is due to the new border definition due to Chinese takeover of Tibet. Both sides claim borders, they overlap and war ensued. A more direct message of the war was about India sheltering the Tibetan refugees and dalai lama.

It's not about the now but about the future. If you destroy the native culture and settle your own people you ensure the area will always remain under your control or at least under your influence no matter what kind of setback (defeat at war, civil war) you meet. China plans long term. It doesn't want to have peripheral dominions taken away from its control again.

>So rather than let them have cultural and religious autonomy while still using the area for resource extraction and creating new jobs from said resource extraction for the natives

History teaches us that shit never works like intended and it simply leads to the region going nationalist at some point and declaring independence which in turn leads to civil wars, people of some specific ethnic getting tossed into the holiday camps and foreign powers taking advantage of the situation

Totalitarian communist mass murderers

vs

Extremist theocracy

East Asia was 40k

That image just screams extremist theology

Yeah just like how Hong Kong or Taiwan is oh so loyal to a Mainland state rite?

Hong Kong as a separate entity is no more. The local government are all CCP now and the people have no choice but to eat up their propaganda. Any calls for democracy is squashed.

I know

It just doesn't scream like a yak breeder being impaled on bamboo spears in front of the village for daring to make eye contact with the Lama

Loss of traditional culture is inevitable,you can't blame Sinicization for modernity.

Even the formation of a "Tibetan" identity was the result of conquest.

How is Tibetan culture being destroyed? All I see in this thread is unsubstantiated claims repeated ad nauseam.

Tibetan Buddhism isn't the only religion that suffers from oppression.

>What advantages does a minority in Tibet have?
Affirmative action.

Got it. I'll look into it more. Sino-Indian war in 1962 right?
So if this is obvious, what is being done about it (if anything)? What really can be done about it?
Nice trips, Satan.
I suppose you're right. But if regardless of whether the oppressing nation makes life subjectively better for the oppressed, there's bound to be nationalism and all the problems that ensue, then what purpose is there really for systematically destroying a people and culture in the eyes of literally the whole world? Which also refers back to my previous question of what can be done about it, if anything?

Now imagine the current situation with an Taiwan-aboriginese majority Taiwan instead of a Han majority one. The Chinese case becomes much weaker.

Tbf, Hong Cucks are pussies.

Also tbf, as a Filipino cunt, Hong Kong sure loves prattling about how different they are from the mainland but when they have to be racists towards Southeast Asians, the Chinese pride starts being thrown about.

S-Seriously? Have they taken it too far?

It's called propaganda

To play Devil's Advocate here, isn't the majority of Hong Kong ethnically Chinese to begin with? What separation from the mainland did they really have before the modern era of China? Weren't they a secession by China to England to use as an economic port?
>affirmative action

No one cares about traditional culture. The obsession with it is /pol/ bullshit. It's all about keeping a distinct, lively, culture that will of course evolve under modernity. The Tibetan culture is not going to evolve. It will just die out.

The Han ideology is different from mainland to hongkong (was) to Taiwan to Singapore to Chinese American.

You mean reverse affirmative action. Good luck landing a managerial job if you're not Han.

Well there is actually an advantage. The one child policy does not apply to minorities. Not that it matters when there are ten settlers for every Tibetan kids born.

Yep the Tibetans are fucked right now. To evolve they need drag ideas, however given that their region is literally closed off politically, culturally, religiously and physically, thats impossible. The only "frsh" idea they get is Han sinized version. Since they don't like that, their economy will continue to tank while the Han migrants will get richer off the land.