So I'm reading the Bible, done with the book of Genesis, and about 10 chapters into Exodus (no pun intended) at the moment.
Where do Christians get the idea that god is omnipotent and omniscient? He doesn't seem to have any of these properties. Maybe really powerful, and close to all knowing, but in no way having those two properties in full.
In fact a lot of discrepancies and inconsistencies are solved if you read it "sola scriptura".
you dont think so? read the rest and see how he just repeatedly takes people out without fucks given.
Omnipotent means having ultimate power, right? Being all-powerful? ALL-powerful.
That means nothing should be impossible. He should be able to snap his fingers and make anything happen, but he can't. Great things, sure, but not anything.
Same goes for omniscient, he doesn't seem to know everything, past, present and future.
>Where do Christians get the idea that god is omnipotent and omniscient?
By changing their god to better appeal to those familiar with Greek philosophy.
Because Yahweh was originally a pagan war god. Only over time did he become an all powerful deity
The first thing you need to understand is that the bible is not a single book but a bunch of books tied up together.
In some of the books G_D is omniscient and omnipotent, while in another he's just a god among many others.
>Where do Christians get the idea that god is omnipotent and omniscient?
Gee I dunno, maybe the part at the very fucking beginning of the book where He creates the whole universe and everything in it? Gee what a fucking mystery.
That doesn't make him either omnipotent or omniscient.
>maybe the part at the very fucking beginning of the book where He creates the whole universe and everything in it
It doesn't say that though
>create literally everything
>not all-powerful
Atheist logic at work
But creating everything doesn't make him all-powerful
That isn't the definition of all powerful, which is self contradicting anyway
> Where do Christians get the idea that god is omnipotent and omniscient?
From reading Plat and Aristotle.
Really? What work(s)?
Republic, Timaeus and Metaphysics,
The Greeks wrote works on the Hebrew bible?
No, but Jews at the time of Jesus wrote works on the intersection of Greek Philosophy and Hebrew Bible, see Philo.
POTENTIA ABSOLUTA AND NEOPLATONISM
LMAO
Fun fact: when most of the OT was recorded, the Jews were henotheists, not monotheists. God being omnipotent is a rabbinical retcon.
Read the entire 66 books faggot
Yes I realize that, in fact I'm an atheist, but there's no point in discussion theology if I'm just going to go "lel it's not like he exists anyway xD". It's obvious, at least from the first two books, that they were henotheists, and YHWH just evolved from multiple different gods into one.
That's the exact reason why I asked, and didn't tell.
You have to read it with commentary from a Biblical scholar, it is very hard to simply read the Bible and understand it at face value.
that's bullshit but i believe it
I am reading it with notes though, currently reading the Oxford one, NRSV.
>Where do Christians get the idea that god is omnipotent
Job 42:2
>and omniscient
Psalm 147:5
Not just the Christians, as there is no need for the New Testament to assert those basic feautres.
In that case, back to the chapters you supposedly read:
biblegateway.com
Isn't God Almighty just a title though? A rendering of the Hebrew El Shaddai? It's separate from other titles given to him:
en.wikipedia.org
Job 42:2 is man saying that God is almighty, that might be false. Psalm 147:5 doesn't say he is almighty or omniscient, just abundant in power, and unmeasurable in knowledge.
unmeasurable =/= infinite.
>warrior god
he was a 3rd tier god tops at start and gained rank later
>A rendering of the Hebrew El Shaddai?
And in the article you link me it mentions that ye olden Jewish interpretation is:
>a god who is sufficient in himself, a self-determined eternal being qua being, for whom limited descriptive names cannot apply
There is no lack of Jews in the NRSV translation team, particularly when the Torah is involved, and I see no particular problem with this word choice of theirs. It is an interpretive translation, but that's inseparable from the process of any Bible translation to begin with.
>Job 42:2 is man saying that God is almighty, that might be false.
It's immediately after God went out of his way to prove it to Job, Job originally didn't know (verse 3) but now he does. As Job isn't any ordinary man but God's most faithful servant, he wouldn't even joke about bearing false witness, not in the very presence of God of all times, and especially not after all the hardships God had him suffer throughout the previous chapters of the book.
Read your Job, it discusses a variety of attributes of God in other places.
>infinite
That's not what omnis means either. Would you like a Job 21:22 or even a 1 John 3:20?
The Jews.
As time goes on, Yahweh's powers grow. He used to live in a box and get shit on by iron chariots, and now he's the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator of everything. He's a theological Mary Sue.
How was god not aware that Satan was attempting to deceive Eve? There were literally 2 people and a forbidden tree of knowledge in basically the whole of the world, and yet somehow God still wasn't aware that one of his angelic children (that he also created but without free will, but then how does Satan deceive unless he was designed to do that?) was trying to fuck everything up?
Differrent user, I need a passage proving omniscience, preferrably from the New Testament (however, I don't recall finding such a passage in the New Testament, and never bothered reading the Old, as it is diluted and distorted by history and mythology).
On a differrent note, presupposing omniscience, how do catholics defend free will?
1 John 3:20
Choose whatever translation you like, they all say that God knows everything/all things.
Also, if you're not going to read the Old Testament, don't even bother reading the New.
Thanks.
>Also, if you're not going to read the Old Testament, don't even bother reading the New.
Why? A lot of things became irrelevant due to the New Covenant, and parts of the Old Testament were shown to be false, which means those parts are not from God, as He would not decieve us. What was affirmed of the Old Testament (in the New Testament) is prophets, the Messianic prophecy and laws. But not all of the Old Testament was written by prophets.
Anyway, how does catholic theology respond to omniscience, as it retains the notion of free will? What explanation is used for God's change of behaviour in the New Testament? Does Mt 5:17 apply only to converted Jews?
>Why?
Here's what will happen if you start reading the New Testament without ever reading the Old Testament, just using the very first verse as an example:
Matthew 1:1 - The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham
"Who is David? Who is Abraham?"
>A lot of things became irrelevant due to the New Covenant, and parts of the Old Testament were shown to be false, which means those parts are not from God, as He would not decieve us.
Matthew 5:17-18
2 Timothy 3:16-17
>What was affirmed of the Old Testament (in the New Testament) is prophets, the Messianic prophecy and laws. But not all of the Old Testament was written by prophets.
See 2 Timothy 3:16-17 again.
>What explanation is used for God's change of behaviour in the New Testament?
God does not change.
>Does Mt 5:17 apply only to converted Jews?
No.
It's literally him speaking all that exists into being. Pagan gods had to struggle to create the world, YHWH just speaks that something shall exist and is suddenly is.
The same reason that Judaism/Christianity became monotheistic.
>my god is better than YOUR god
Repeat for thousands of years. YHVH's qualities were continually exaggerated until he became a single perfect and all-present and all-powerful and all-knowing being. That's marketing, for you.