/niohg/ - Nioh General

as much as i love bb combat , this user is right , nioh combas is the best of any game i've played

Stop soul-matching your gear

Just upgrade it from Revenants or even craft it

I'm not soul-matching, I hit 150 ilvl ceiling.
I mean, I am soul matching, with same + level greens.
And revenant drops don't retain their + level.

Are you matching different things with each other? Because you get a discount for soul matching like with like.

I actually quite like the mission structure, I just don't like the way they do sub-missions.

>Go through main mission and beat boss
>sub mission is just going through the level from the boss room backwards to the start of the level

Nioh has unplayable PvP and PvE combat that is basically broken but gets passed only because it's broken in a way which makes the player feel powerful.
Nioh combat is mostly just masturbation.

Yeah, I remember hearing something like that from the smith. Is the discount that significant?

I'm not sure what that means, but I hope From takes notes from Nioh's combat system for the future Soulsborne games. Loot is kind of wonky, level design is bland and enemy variety was criminally low, but the combat is 10/10. I'm really surprised this game is so niche. There are never any threads about it, and the general is nearly dead. Underrated game desu.

Lady Maria, I'm a karas tengu. Ca-caw!

A weeb should be left well alone.

Gee, Hideyoshi! How come Oda lets you have two elements?

i just started the game is there any tier list for weapons or are they all equally strong?
i wanted to use sword and kusarigama but since they share only 1 stat i was going to change to odachi or duals.

It means a lot of the things you're interpreting as amazing come down to just letting the player move faster, cancel out of things instantly, chain dodges with no recovery, block while dodging, combo human bosses to death from a single opening, heal to full with almost no animation time and come back from the dead.
After Souls it probably feels great to have super-powers, but that's a temporary high while you adjust to that being the new normal. Once you've played for a while you realise that the game has a lot of issues which stem directly from the player character not having enough limitations.
People complain about some of the later stuff being 'unfair bullshit', but the reason it needs to be bullshit is because bullshit is the only way to pose a challenge to the super powered player character.
Things one-shot you or do huge Ki damage leading to a break that kills you, because it's the only way to blow through the excessive elixir healing. It's also the only way to pressure a player who can block+dodge repeatedly out of any offensive string, because dodge has no recovery time and the game lets you do all your defensive stuff at once with no downside.
Humans break the rules because YOU break the rules all day. You can ignore high stance heavy hits to the face with enough toughness and hit LW to turn into superman.

The game has some great advances over Souls, mainly in the wide variety of different attacks and options available at the same time during combat, due to long lists of weapon skills. The Ki and pulse system also works out pretty well, but everything else needs to be reeled back in if you want to be able to challenge the player on higher tier content with enemies that feel fair.

Kat and 2Kat are considered pretty strong form what I know, because of the iai cheese.
Other than that, I think everything is viable. Actually, scratch that, I personally really didn't like the Kusarigama. I thought I'd play NG+ on a ninja build, but I just couldn't handle using kusarigama.
>since they share only 1 stat
Ideally you really should just stick with one weapon type and pump all the points into its corresponding B+ scaling stat. Get your stamina/dexterity/magic/spirit to whatever level you want them, then just go up to 99 with the weapon's primary stat, since the scaling is more or less linear and you never really get diminishing returns.

>block while dodging
>block+dodge
>all your defensive stuff at once with no downside
Not that user, but what? I feel like I'm missing something here.

- Sword
Good normal attacks, good damage potential with Iai, best parry option in the game (Backwave), broken parry followups which let you cheese humans, pretty good LW. A lot of stuff is short range which is the major weakness.

- 2kat
Awful normal attacks, mainly limited in use to SotC and God of Wind. SotC is strong and parry follow ups are broken to the point of making all humans free. Most consistent horn breaking option in the game.

- Odachi
Very good normal attacks, huge effective range, best unlocked area swings for hitting groups. Can swing into most humans to easily break Ki. Skills mostly too slow to be useful, parry is garbage, one of the best LW options.

- Spear
Best dodging attack, good crowd control, skills have long recovery so are unsafe if you don't kill the target. Can cheese humans with twisting spear. Great LW weapon.

- Axe
lol who uses axe?

- Kusa
Garbage normal attacks, everything has long recovery so unsafe. Potentially highest DPS in game if you find something that will just let you stand there at point blank range without moving, but lack of burst damage like Iai is an issue. Can cheese humans with pull into sweep but this is small potatoes next to kat options. Good LW attacks.

- Tonfa
Best Ki breaking with shove. Reliant on later skills and specific gear to deal high damage. Mystic art makes them the safest weapon in the game able to i-frame out of all the things all the time. High mobility. Terrible parry game, probably the worst LW.

Low stance only but the game also has no restrictions on changing to low stance whenever you want to. Your all purpose defensive option no matter what is happening is to hold block, change low stance, mash dodge while still holding block.

Does it really? Admittedly I rarely use the low stance at all, but I'm pretty sure I tried dodging while blocking, and still got hit.

>lol who uses axe?
I-I do...

Oh fuck right off.

So using a katana for humans and the dual katana for demons should be a good option then?

>best parry option in the game (Backwave)
I can never land Backwave. How do I do it properly?
I use the L1+X -> X parry and it works every time.

>"waaah why game gave me this options!"
you fucking retard, game is good because there is a lot of variety and builds.
soulsfag pls

Backwave is a just-defend, but you then have to press guard again afterwards to knock down.
Wait to press block until just before the attack hits you and you'll know if you succeed because the other guy will bounce off you into a reeling animation.
As soon as you see them bounce off you release block and press it again, that will trigger the follow up. Obviously you need Tempest > Backwave > Backwave II.

>dash preemptively
>try to block the laser instead of dashing second time

>As soon as you see them bounce off you release block
Ah, so the first time, I have to press block firmly, not just tap it?

kat+2kat works fine, they're just fairly similar to each other and good at the same things. Odachi is a good kat secondary because of the coverage of mid stance quick which fills an actual hole in the kat game.

Don't tap block because then you'll get hit if you're too early. The timing is slightly before the attack connects, not at the same time as it connects. It's the safest parry in the game because if you mistime it you'll just block, and there's no recovery.

Imagine being buried so deep in team ninja's anus that you can't read the posts you're replying to.

>reading
You know what? You complained about superman powers but it's irrelevant, when all those powers basically become fully available late late game when you're fighting other supermans that can easily oneshot you.
also
>complaining completely different games
You just shitty soulsfag who can't gitgud for life.

compairing

ok, so it would be a good combination to have katana/2katana for single target and an odachi for group of enemies and invest in the skills for one of the former two and use living weapon with odachi

>People complain about some of the later stuff being 'unfair bullshit'
99% of those things aren't actually bullshit, just retards trying to rush in and button mash getting nailed by moves that'd be easily avoidable if they'd taken the time to hang back and watch how the enemy works.

The game doesn't encourage you to hang back and watch how the enemies work. The game encourages you to learn how to exploit your superman powers, minmaxed gear and support abilities to blow everything up in a way which doesn't require you to know how the enemy works.
You've misunderstood the problem, the problem is not that the game is hard. The game isn't hard, the game is easy. You have the ability to trivialize everything. The problem is the kind of gameplay which the game produces when you make use of everything it gives you in the way you're encouraged to use it.

For example I can out-space all of Maria's melee, poking her from out of her range with an Odachi as she swings. I can step around her dashing attacks without dodging, I can pole vault over energy blasts.
But the game doesn't want me to do any of that. What the game wants me to do is minmax Iai damage, chuck a weakening Talisman at her during her opening animation, then walk behind and one shot her with Iai draw. In which case I don't need to know what any of her attacks even look like.

>game doesn't want me to do any of that
>What the game wants me to do is minmax Iai
Do not listen to voices in your head, seek help

It means the game can't ever be challenging in a good way unless you actively restrict yourself. If you just ramp up the damage and health of a boss to make it harder then as a player your best response to that is to apply more buffs and debuffs, roll better stats on gear and use LW more.
White Tiger seems like it has a moveset that's pretty difficult to deal with. You wouldn't notice though, because the correct way to beat it is to apply 2 status debuffs for discord and then mash it to death while it's permanently staggered.

>restrict yourself
nobody is forcing you to do anything lol. Play as you want. You are making shit up, calm down

Stop using low stance with str weapons, pussy.

Why are you talking about "using low stance" as if that's some sort of choice you make for a fight. You should be dodging in low stance, attacking in high or another stance as needed, using skills from whichever stance they're in, fluxing from high for bonus damage and then back to low to dodge again. If you're choosing a stance for a fight then you're scrubbing it up.

The stance you're in is a choice. And low stance is a pussy's choice.
Unless you're dual-wielding. Then you're equally cancerous in all stances.

>Things one-shot you

Everyone on Veeky Forums has a hard on for maximum damage, and has this retarded >getting hit mentality that drives them all to build their character for 100% damage and 0% defense. If you actually put on some defensive armor sets like Greater Good, Tatenashi, Hiraishi or the earth grace set you DONT get one shot.

Even a physical blow from fucking Orochi wont one hit you in way of the Nioh. You can survive grabs. You can eat a bosses Iai strike just fucking fine. And all of that is before taking debuffs into account.

But for whatever the hell reason every time you bring that crap up you just get “just dodge bro” in response, like they literally forgot what they were JUST bitching about.

Shit, even if you do get one hit you can stack unlimited quick change scrolls, stack “survive death if not critical” to 100% or just trigger living weapon at 0 life. You basically have to go out of your way to get killed from a single move. But I’ve played with enough people in co-op who do because they just HAVE to have their A agility one hit kill speed run build because that is what the internet told them was good.

>I play the game in a way that isn’t fun for me
>this is the games fault and not my own

>if you aren’t playing the game the way I do you are a pussy

And this is why the community for this game blows and I’m glad this general is dead as fuck at this point.

Give me your cheesiest LW builds, /niohg/.

>if you aren’t playing the game the way I do
I guess can't see the irony taking all your previous posts into consideration.

Do I get more attack from stamina from nigger samurai set or from equipment weight from Tatenashi?

I’m not telling anyone to change their entire play style, but anyone bitching about getting one shot needs to piece together the fact that they are bringing it on themselves. I’m sick of people blaming the game when it hands you SO fucking many ways around it.

>“just dodge bro”
You don't need to dodge if you stack wind debuff and weaken weapon with heavy armour and enough toughness to just swing into stuff like you don't give a shit.
I don't really see how this is an argument for the game being well designed though, I thought we were talking about how the game encourages you to use gimmicks to walk over the content without learning how to play properly.

>without learning how to play properly.
How's using the tools and mechanics the game has in place for the player ISN'T playing it "properly"?

me in the back

>posting his shit webm from NG again
i thought you killed yourself already. When?

But thats the thing - what is “playing properly”? You don’t have to use onmyo or ninjutsu if you don’t want to, and you can clear all the games content just dodging and blocking. Or you CAN use those mechanics and beat the game just the same. I’m just sick and tired of this dialogue:

>everything in the game kills you in one hit anyway, so I may as well build for pure offense
>Maybe everything is killing you BECAUSE you built for pure offense. You know, you could-
>lol get a load of this fag
>You were JUST complaining abou-
>git gud

stop giving nigger who didn't even get to WotN attention.
He has no idea what he's talking about and salty because his soulsshitty ass got raped on fucking wotS

Imagine that Dark Souls 2's levels were all full of this guy, only with double animation speed and 3x the health.
Except it's OK because the game lets you pick up infinite poison arrows and poison them to death from across the map, or they die in one Dark Orb, or there's a consumable you can farm to despawn them all instead of fighting them.
So somebody complains that actually this might be pretty shitty design. Your response is "lol just use the tools and mechanics the game has to deal with them scrub, git gud".

But that's false analogy, user.

Maybe in a souls style combat game with readable animations and bosses with a wide range of attacks that can be avoided by paying attention, it would be cool if the game primarily wanted you to do exactly that, and not RPG your way around all of the individual fight mechanics so that everything plays like an Onmyo dojo mission.

The game wants you to have fun, dude. The only thing stopping you is yourself. Yeah, the game actually uses the RPG mechanics. I’m sorry to be a downer, but so does Dark Souls. Throw on some heavy armor and a great shield and you dont have to avoid shit. You CAN one shot bosses with Dark Bead or whatever that shotgun dark magic was. But there isn’t anything keeping you away from all of the builds in between.

I think ignoring a boss's attacks and doing moonlit snow until it falls over is a pretty analogous to ignoring a drakekeeper's attacks by firing poison arrows at it from 50 meters away until it falls over. The point is that neither is particularly enjoyable gameplay. I didn't buy Dark Souls 2 to play a slow motion FPS with giant unmissable targets that don't shoot back. I didn't buy Nioh to manage buffs and debuffs and roll pen and paper RPG stats that let me ignore all a fight's mechanics because I have 100% firearms reduction and no GB.

The best encounters in Souls can't be reduced to the same degree they can in Nioh. If you're struggling on a Souls boss the most immediate route to success is paying attention and learning how to deal with what the boss does, not reaching into your inventory.
Even when gimmicks are missed like Pestilent Mercury on Midir, you still need to actually play around the boss in most cases, and it's still faster to man up and hit it on the head with a big stick.

What can I say? You should've done a better research before buying the game.
Or you could've just stopped playing after NG.

I still think you are wrong - pretty much every boss in 1 and 2 can be solved by circling them with a shield up and attacking during their recovery. But lets ignore that for a moment and go back to Nioh.

The shit you are bitching about takes shitloads of grinding and isn’t even possible on your first play through. You can’t stack inheritables or get divine gear until you beat Orochi at the end of the game. You can’t get set reqs -1 until that point either so min/maxing set bonuses isn’t a thing yet either. If you build yourself into that kind of playstyle it was 100% your choice and yours alone.

Firearms reduction is only the most ridiculous example, it's true that this isn't practical on a first playthrough but the fact that it exists at all is a problem. Applying confusion to every Yokai boss is available almost immediately though, and turns all of them into punching bags including and especially Hundred Eyes. The worst anti-climax of the game who just gets confused during his spawn animation and then dies from full life without doing anything.
Parry combos on humans are available immediately, headshots instead of actually learning the boss are available to everyone.
Keeping Nioh challenging isn't just a case of avoiding one obscure exploit, you have to actively work to avoid spoiling everything.

Redpill me on firearms damage reduction. What does it actually affect?

Basically everything that isn't melee, and it stacks additively all the way to 100%. This means things like bosses firing magical shit from swords, Hiro-enma HUUAHHs, fire on the ground and the fire trail from wheelmonks etc. all disappears to zero damage.
If you add No Guard Break projectiles to that then you also don't get interrupted. So you can have 3 bazooka Yokai firing at you and just ignore them while you make a sandwich.

That sounds really fun. I should work on stacking that.
Can I do it with ilvl 150 gear? Or do I need to go up to WotN?

I don’t see it as a problem, though. Its basic shit to exploit weakness and protect against an enemies strengths. Fucking Flamelurker was made a lot easier by stacking fire resist and using magic damage, but his boss fight was still fun as hell. You still have to know when you actually can get a headshot in and not all moves can be parried. Not all Yokai are easy to keep confused - white tiger on higher difficulties is a good example because the fucker leaps away the moment your combo ends. You gotta fucking - get this - learn that shit, before you can really exploit it to the fullest. And once again, nothing is forcing you.

Replace “firearms” with “projectile”. It works on a shitload of stuff but you still get flinched by energy waves and crap so you still benefit from avoiding stuff.

You may need one of the sets with firearms reduction bonus to hit 100% if you don't have the titles and accessories. It's possible at 150 with Tatenashi and inheritable firearms.
Even if you're not using Tatenashi it only makes sense to start adding it to your gear on a late game setup, so you'd have to make a conscious decision to not want to nullify a load of boss mechanics to not be immune to this stuff in WotN.

I'm rolling with a heavy armor build anyway, so why not. Although, I've no idea where to get the recipe for it.

Huuaahs still paralyze you and anything that isnt from a bow / gun / cannon still flinches you. Blocking a cannon by mistake still shits all over your guard. Some attacks like izuna rushing you still deal damage and apply bluster. Its not an end all be all solution.

You need inheritable fire arms reduction from helmets and body armor. I think you have to have Hiraishi or Tatenashi or a couple accessories with it to hit 100%.

>Huuaahs still paralyze you
They paralyze you and then the 2nd one unparalyzes you, and neither of them do any damage. You can't seriously suggest firearms reduction doesn't completely change the game at higher gear tiers.

The first one paralyzes you, and there is no second one. She runs up and beats your defenseless ass with a spin kick or a grab. You still have to keep paralysis cures at the ready.

Yeah, it makes a lot of fights a lot easier but you can’t turn your brain off just because specific attacks don’t do damage. Status ailments still land from kelly spikes and other attacks. Breath attacks and lasers still hurt. And it obviously doesn’t do jack shit against melee - meaning you still have to keep a little distance when bosses are sending sword slashes at you because the sword itself still hurts. If you just rush in Hideyori and mitsunari are still going to debuff the shit out of you and leave you pretty well crippled.

Some bosses are blocked a lot harder by it than others but all it ultimately does is make it a lot easier to stay in their face and keep the pressure on.

But harder difficulty modes are supposed to be harder user.

>Learning Flash Attack prevents you from doing pulse swap into Iai draw and can't be disabled
This fucking game.

They ARE harder though. Bosses start applying multiple debuffs on hit, hit harder and have way more ki. But wouldn’t you know it, by the time you beat the game 4 times over you’ve gotten a lot better at it. What a crazy concept.

What should I use droplets of defilement on? It can be anything, right?

used to defiling along with amrita to get etheral items past floor31+

but is there a reason to not just use a piece of pirate armor for that

what the fuck are you even asking m8

i think hes asking what defiling actually does to the item you pick

If you really want an Ethereal pirate hat sure. Different armour pieces have different toughness/def/weight, and some have unique rolls. You defile the gear you want.

currently a few missions into way of the demon and it feels like im not supposed to be here yet. not really sure what im doing wrong though, am i supposed to be minmaxing with armor sets and yasakani already?

is there any benefit to defiling anything that already has a set bonus, like sarutobi, etc.?

Ethereal items can roll stats that don't appear on divine.

Does everything that's completed on the first play through stay that way once you unlock the next difficulty? Twilight missions for later regions stay unlocked on regular difficulty, I just need to complete the appropriate missions on the new difficulty to unlock the corresponding twilights. Is this correct?