/tekgen/ - Tekken General

IM THE REALEST HERE

Bryan vs Asuka is 10:0 matchup, 100% impossible because he lowcrushes her highs.
Paul is holding me back. By the way I can't do quarter circle motions.
The game is very poorly balanced at low levels.
Steve is shit.
Steve is top tier.
Raven can't open up turtles and can't do anything about pressure.
Kazuya's hellsweep tracks.
Jin's RA is the worst in the game because it's high so it's a free launch.
Miguel's df1,1 is a gimmick because the second hit is high.
It's easy to RA through Claudio's hopkick: just look for when he jumps.
I'm Speedkicks.

>Bryan vs Asuka is 10:0 matchup, 100% impossible because he lowcrushes her highs.
no, it's becouse her highs register as mids.

Play who you want, just make sure you learn fundamentals and not which gimmicks you're able to spam to steal wins

Glad someone's keeping a list of this shit. Reacting to a hopkick with a RA is my favorite and I agree with one of those.

You're the df1 guy aren't you?
If you are, you're the only one on that list who isn't a complete mental case, I put you there just for the sake of having something desu

get stricter criteria for what gimmicks are you donut

>Kazuya's hellsweep tracks.
It does, just not to his right.

>Miguel's df1,1 is a gimmick because the second hit is high.
Yes. It has a massive flaw you have to know about or Miguel goes up at least one tier.

someone please post the webm where the guy tries to react to the hopkick

Isn't it possible?

if you duck for the df1,1 and he only did df1 then you gave him advantage. That's how all df1 followups work.
We're not having this again.

Why isn't Lee considered the definitive counter hit character?

Because Steve has the best ch tools, pham

Got you covered.

In the original thread it said hellsweep tracks both sides, should fix it.

If a Miguel player just shits out ff2,1 df1,1,3 uf3,2,2 d4,1+2 etc they should be considered a gimmicky player even if some of those moves could be used in high level matches.

>that 300iq reaction
SPEED...

...

If any character player just shits out 1 jab all match as their only move then they're a gimmicky player because even though 1 jab frametraps into itself, it can be ducked.

Are 1 jabs gimmicks?

Does he really? Lee has the neutral 4 variations, f,f+4 (which high crushes), b+4 HMS stuff, 5 billion low CH launchers. Steve gets what? b+1 and d/f+2?

Plus, he does like 15+ damage more off his CH launchers than Steve does and has way more wall carry.

>steve gets what? the best counter hit launcher and the second best counter hit launcher?
Yes

No I don't think so. A jab is much more common than a specific string.

So a player literally only doing 1 jab the entire round isn't a gimmicky player

Glad someone has been keeping count
This one is hilarious, but the guy trying to sidestep at -8 to prove the hellsweep ""tracks"" was even better

Learning Alisa is pretty hard desu. Her f2 seems to randomly whiff in combos, might have to go back to using b1, ws1,2 for initial launches. Bit less damage but I think it's more reliable

Also what are her options against people looking to ss your d3? Should I be doing wr3,4 or something else? I know b3 is good but sometimes they aren't that close. If I understand right the long range mixup is wr2, wr3,4 and d3, when should I use her IKIMASU stance?

They're either masher or someone bullying noobs.

How is b+1 better than Lee's standing 4 or 4,4?

Don't King and Miguel have the same b1 thing?

Heihachi, Steve, Katarina, Nina, Bryan, Dragunov, Jin, Kazuya, Akuma, Geese, Eddy, King, Leo, and Paul all have a high extension off of their generic mid poke. I'd say that's pretty damn common

King's and Miguel's are faster than Steve's.

So how is his better...?

I feel like I'm explaining this every thread with how the Steve debate is so popular. Here I go again

With standard CH launchers like magic 4s and mid CH knees, your turn is over once they get blocked, or at least you're put at a disadvantage.
The great thing about Steve's b1 is that it's not just b1. It's b12, b1 flicker jabs, b1 duck cancel, b1d21, b1 sway cancel etc. You can't attack even after you blocked a b1, it's still Steve's turn.

Don't believe me? Look at the matches. King players go for CH b1s maybe once in the entire match, Miguels literally never do, Lee players do magic 4 maybe 3 times in a round ( it is good ).
Now watch a high level Steve. They're literally spamming the shit out of b1. They do it like 20 times in one round, because that shit IS spammable.

As for df2, it's a mid homing CH launcher that is safe on block and that's all there is to it basically

I haven't had any problems with F2 in combos, but your alternative works as well. I only really use boot stance when you can transition into it from other moves. You're right about the long range mixup, its wr2, wr3, 4 and d3. bear in mind at certain ranges even wr3, 4 can be sidewalked which fucks up the entire mixup, it's still risky for them to do so though. If your opponent is good at this consider not using the mixup.

You're staying in the list.

you forgot yoshimitsu.

Miguel's one has shorter range for one.

The main benefit of Steve's is that you can FLK cancel which makes it significantly better than other b+1s on block (if you don't cancel, it is like -14 or something) and makes it pretty safe when you whiff it at range. It still doesn't make it + on block.

Oh ok that makes sense. I'm not a Steve player so I didn't know he could do all that shit afterwards. Good to know.

There's a lot of people in the other thread talking about Kazuya's "execution barrier" and "not being worth the effort". First things first, you should be able to get an electric at least 8/10 times to be decent, it's true. But that's literally the only hard execution thing about Kazuya unless you go Korean mode and cancel the crouch dash to WS moves - which you'll have to eventually, but not unless people start reliably sidestepping left your 50/50. His combos are retard tier simple, he has like six moves to learn tops, and his game plan is probably the easiest to understand of the whole cast. The whole "you need YEARS to be decent" meme is complete bullshit. If someone is thinking about picking up Kaz don't be scared about the mishima Boogeyman, in reality, mishimas are super easy to understand and have some of the cheapest shit in the franchise.

Who’s a rushdown character that’s scary to play against

Yep. Basically, when CH fishing is involved, a move that lets you do it more often is better than a move that's faster.

Dragunov. Hwoarang kind-of but he's not as solid.

>You can't attack even after you blocked a b1, it's still Steve's turn.
This isn't really true. Steve is still negative after b+1 is blocked, even with FLK. The b+1 follow-ups are rarely used as well because all of them are beaten by crouching.

The benefit of Steve's b+1, as I noted, is the ability to whiff it in neutral because FLK reduces the recovery frames significantly.

I don't mind. I'll be there to defend my opinion.

Hwoarang can be dealt with and forced to play it safe, which isn't that scary.
I shit myself if I find a good Nina.

This as well, absolutely

b1 to FLK to DCK mixup is a great strat though that beats people who duck the followups.
You're absolutely right on the whiff point, it's a great keepout tool for that reason

I can defend at least semi properly to every character in the cast except nina. She always makes me shit the bed for some reason.

If I see a Niner in the loading screen I seriously think about the fastest way of comitting Sudoku.

I would argue, along a similar line, that Lee's b+4 functions as a similarly effective keepout tool. It has a large range, tracks in both directions with HMS transition and is difficult to whiff punish due to the fact that the stance transition moves Lee a long way backwards. It also gives you an 80 damage combo on CH.

So reddit said a weakness to Yoshi is to turtle. Now unless they have a different definition for turtle, couldn't I just Indian Stance Heal for them to come to me?

I'm not saying Lee's b4 is bad, but it's definitely not as good as b1 and df2.

Law

That's bullshit. There's no character with which I have an easier time opening people up. You get a bunch of mixups to choose from and a lot of actually usable unblockables to open their asses up. And yeah indian stance baits work against turtles as well.

Turtling literally doesnt exist in tekken. There's keepout, and it does work well against Yoshi

f2 as a start is more consistent I think, but I was doing df1,1 into f2, which whiffs sometimes for whatever reason.

Good mixup character?

Who’s overall harder Yoshi or Kaz? I can ewgf into ewgf no problem, I know Yoshi just has a bunch of moves but like I’m sure I don’t use them all when I first start.
I was playing lee but his combos are hard online.

yeah it's better to use f2 into d/f1,1 it works off most of her launchers.

The problem with Lee's B4 is how disjointed it seems from the rest of his moves. It doesn't fit with his playstyle. You're never going to throw B4 at range 1 or closer, it's just too slow, and further out Lee can't really play his game. So what ends up happening is you whiff B4 in the neutral and hope your opponent runs into it, which is not a clever way of playing Tekken.

Stance characters are built on the concept of entering a specific stance with an advantage and forcing a mixup with it

Kaz, by far. EWGF is just the tip of the iceberg with that character. You need to have extremely strong movement and game knowledge to make him work.

Yoshi is not very difficult.His execution is babby tier easy and he gets a ton of mileage off other people's character ignorance. He also has oddly favourable match-ups against certain characters (e.g., Steve).

yeah the problem that way is b2,4 is inconsistent as a screw. the df1,1 pushes them a little too far sometimes, where as the f2 gives her more range.

Kaz is overall scarier to face than yoshimitsu. Both are all about the mindgames where yoshimitsu can piss someone off faster so I guess he kind of has an edge there. Overall yoshimitsu isn't that hard to play but it takes a long fucking time to get used to his big ass movelist which you'll have to use because doing the same thing over and over isn't gonna cut it for yoshi. Kaz is a lot simpler in gameplan but requires better execution so you'll really fucking hate yourself on bad days where you'll miss all your electrics. They're both quite a dedication to learn but both fun and rewarding in their own way, it pretty much boils down to: execution or complexity, which one of these are a bigger obstacle?

Yoshi has no execution requirement and is a very normal character, don't let the fergus cuck fool you into thinking he's unorthodox in any way.
He pokes, enters stances, and does mixups.
He has some unique things like Flash which requires you to study specific matchups though.

Kazuya requires a shitload of execution, and I'm not talking about just EWGF. He's nothing without good movement

Then use d4, 1+2 as a screw. It's pretty reliable in my experience.

anyone have an up to date character popularity chart?

Yoshi, become a robot and literally do punish a 6 frame gap in moves with Flash.

Seriously I bet even most Koreans don't know which of their mains safe string extensions can be flashed.

>guy does flowcharty spring kick
>flash it on block

>play as yoshimitsu against my other main
>flash every flashable string and move
>3-0 with 2 perfects
Yoshimitsu is a monster if you have matchup knowledge.

>Adds me on steam
>you are trash get out!

It's pretty obvious with some characters.

>Steve does a dck cancel literally ever?
>Flash
>enjoy your free damage while nullifying half his moveset

Mostly, though, you can just flash idiots who autopilot strings online.

So how does the flash work? Is it a parry? Or is it an attack I need to be up in their face for?

It's a 6 frame mid launcher with zero range

It's a 6 frame launcher (to put that in perspective, jabs are 10 frames) that leads to a shit ton of damage. The catch is that the range is extremely short so you have to use it to interrupt your opponent's strings (i.e., so their hitbox is close enough to hit them with it). This makes the match-up against Yoshi kind of fucked up because, if the Yoshi player knows what he's doing, he can make a lot of safe stuff launch punishable.

No sword stance adds extra range to flash, to the point where you can actually just hit them out of neutral with it if you are close enough.

also with no sword stance it's 8f instead.

yeah I use that one for the standard combo but d4,1+2 takes too long to recover for optimal wall splat with wr 3,4

>Jin's RA is the worst in the game because it's high so it's a free launch.
I missed that one, good shit

Can you choose to just always play him swordless?

You need to know when to use the sword and when not to, depending on what changes.
For example, his f3+4 power crush is very different without his sword and becomes a really good combo tool, but it's not as good as a power crush.
I never played yoshimitsu seriously but I see him as being really heavy on decision-making: there are shitloads of things you could do at any time, but only a few are the good choices. That's what hard about him I feel

Both stances have benefits and you can play him mostly NSS if you want to. The only thing is that some moves/strings will automatically cause him to pull his sword out. NSS generally has better combo damage and, with rage, gives access to the big fuck-off 100+ damage combos.

>Raven can't open up turtles and can't do anything about pressure
Funny story, whenever I versus a Raven I always rush her down and it works so well for some reason. This is around the yellow and orange ranks btw so either Raven players are braindead retards or she really needed that full screen to be good. Not sure about her opening up turtles though.

>has fast crushing launchers and panic moves
>skinny af so her sidestep is good
>parry that teleports her to safety works on literally everything except throws, even works on low attacks
>attacks with built-in parry save her from aggressive players

You're not sure about her opening up turtles? It's fairly easy to convince you on that one, just go in practice mode as Raven and do db4 to see for yourself

Yeah I still struggle with that combo myself as well. If I'm not feeling confident I just go for the BnB combo instead of wallcarry.

Is Law's optimal wall combo 4,3 DDS f+3, or is there a better (even if less consistent) one?

I've seen Law players do the junkyard that ends in dragontail as wall combo

drag main?

Is there an encyclopedia of what strings can be flashed?

I guess the Ravens at yellow are retarded as fuck, literally none of them I versus could escape my pressure. Though I did see some of them do their teleport thing but I just rush back in and fuck her up. Also her db4 is slow as fuck, if you can block a snake edge then you can block her db4, and I can launch punish her with Jin.

No, yellow Feng and Jim.

Raven's db4 is 23-24 frames, it's slow but you're not seeing shit
She's got other good lows like d4, d3 ( 14 frames low poke ), db3 although that's even slower.

Also she's a stance character. She's nothing without her qcf and BT mixups so if the ravens you played weren't doing those then they're trash because that's the whole character

That's only 2-4 frames faster than an average snake edge. It's nowhere as fast as a hellsweep. I know she's a stance character and that's why I never let her get into stances. Wavedash or snakedash right into her face and she's too scared to do shit.

this is a work of art

She's got above average anti-panic moves so I don't get what you're getting at.
Does a character need to have a button that teleports them fullscreen away for you to consider them as being able to withstand pressure?

No but a fast and safe mid CH would, or maybe the red ranks Ravens knows a bit better, because any yellow or even orange Ravens are braindead.

So why does that one faggot character's punch attack take off half my hp?