If God and eternal life aren't real, is life meaningless? Why does anything matter if we're all going to die?

>Why would expect anything else?
why would you expect this :
>of course life is meaningless outside of life.
Seems like quite the radical conclusion to jump to.
>why would anything besides that exist
Tell me why the living world exists, if not for the express purpose of the world of the un-living?
Why might the world of the un-living exist?
Refer to the world of the living and >Do matter while were living them
>while
Your contingency is pathetic, it doesn't matter when Men suppose things are weighed.
No one calls a race halfway through, amigo.
>who cares about everything else
Many many kind and intelligent folks.

>Why does anything matter if we're all going to die?

Why does anything matter if we're not?

>If you do shit with your life, then it had meaning.
why?

>Tell me why the living world exists, if not for the express purpose of the world of the un-living?
Tell me why the un-living world exists, if not for the express purpose of the world of the living?

It's a question that can't be answered, there's no point in asking it.

Let me put it like this.

If there's an afterlife, then life (the living world) matters to both the living and the dead.

If there isn't, then life (the living world) matters to the living.

Either way, life matters, and the things we do and experience in it matter. When I say "who cares", that's what I mean. Whether or not there's an afterlife, your life experiences in this existence still matter.

By "do shit" I meant you made an impact. If you or what you did had an impact, your life had meaning.

because it affects other people who will continue to exist after you don't anymore

>It's a question that can't be answered
why?
Can you prove that?

>If there's an afterlife, then life (the living world) matters to both the living and the dead.
why?

>If there isn't, then life (the living world) matters to the living.
Is this a necessary contingency, if so why?

>Either way, life matters
Now you're really getting ahead of yourself.

>Whether or not there's an afterlife, your life experiences in this existence still matter.
You've yet to give the logical connection.
>If you or what you did had an impact, your life had meaning
Why though?
>because it affects other people who will continue to exist after you don't anymore
Why does this increase or decrease the significance in anyway??

I think thats pretty weak and not at all absolute.

how many people in this world do you think have a tangible meaningful impact on this world?

Why do you want forever?

Life is only fun when you know there's a time limit and that your life could end at any moment. It makes you strive for more, to do more, and more importantly to be alive when it matters.

you're contradicting yourself; telling us life is meaningless, then life matters. life is subjective now youre telling us it matters but you can't back it up. come on dude.

Before I say anything else, I'd like to point out that you haven't offered a single proposition of your own and are simply saying "why?" and "prove it" the whole thread.

>>If there's an afterlife, then life (the living world) matters to both the living and the dead.
>why?
The living world matters to the living because they are experiencing it. For something to "matter" to someone is for them to care about it, and it is demonstrably true that people care about things that exist, such as themselves and their loved ones.

The living world would matter to the dead because, in the scenario of an afterlife, people who die end up in the afterlife - therefore, the world of the dead is populated by the living. If they are the same people that they were before and retain their memories of being alive, then that world has an impact on them by shaping their personalities and opinions.

If you'd argue that people who die don't remember the previous life, then perhaps the living world wouldn't matter to the dead - but regardless, it still matters to the living. That's my point.

>Now you're really getting ahead of yourself.
No, I'm really not. Things that happen in the world matter to the people that live in it. That's a pretty simple thing to understand. If a plane crashed into your house, would that not matter to you? After all, it was something that happened in this life and not in the afterlife, right? If that would matter to you, then it is true that life matters to the living, and in that case, life does matter.

If you really want to assert that nothing in life matters at all and the thoughts, feelings, desires, etc of living people either don't exist or don't deserve consideration by anyone, then please make an actual claim and provide evidence for it.

Just remember though, if all those things don't matter in this life, why would they matter in the next? Why would ANY existence have meaning in that case?

You know in your heart that if socrates was here, he would fuck you up and your lumbering elephantine imagery.

When are you going to go back to you saying life is subjective?

Why would you assume life's value is objective rather than subjective? And if it is objective, from where is that value derived?

> then please make an actual claim and provide evidence for it.

impossible to provide evidence for meaninglessness, only criticise other peoples' descriptions of meaningless.

You could argue though that the physical world is all there is and there is no teleology in the physical or biological world. That can be an answer. Life's meaning is illusory. It exists because it exists and it exists in these forms because it has to or it would cease.

no, im saying hes putting forward a meaning of life as if it was objective.

*criticise other people's descriptions of meaning,

I belive biological life holds intrinsic value in itself. Unliving constituent parts arranging themselves into a living system by the forces of coincidence and feedback, it's beautiful. Meaning is something sentient creatures are cursed to contemplate.
I live for the same reason a tree lives.

>Why is it meaningful when it's going to end?
That only makes it more meaningful and valuable.

This is just crap, you don't need to be dead to judge someone's worth and even if you did that wouldn't make up for the fact that they had to die. My motivations in life weren't driven by the fact that I'm mortal, they were despite that.

You're trying to make death sound like a good thing just because you have no choice but to die. It's not.

Because it keeps all you faggots, both retarded and intelligent, posting on Veeky Forums so I can enjoy my daily stroll on this board.

>My motivations in life weren't driven by the fact that I'm mortal, they were despite that.
And that's where you are wrong.

>If God and eternal life aren't real, is life meaningless?

Yes.

Fortunately for some of us, this is not the case.

...and then to be judged.

Because God has provided the Love, Acceptance, Meaning and Purpose that he created us for.

Everyone conceived lives forever.

Quite the opposite. In your worldview, nothing about you or what you do will matter to anyone in a million years.

And why should it? The opinion of those who I will never know or have impact on is as irrelevant as can be.

>prove it.

What a stupid thing to say. All your experiences are filtered thru your brain and your senses, ergo, they are subjective.

>It is not that it does not last forever, it is that the actions do not resonate forever, suppose we die an eternal death and there is no afterlife at all.

Why should your actions resonate forever? Alexander the Great conquered the known world, that's why his actions resonate even today. You shitpost on a pedophile image forum. If you want your actions to resonate, make them matter. But if you want to be remembered forever, then get over yourself. You're not that special.

>There is nothing above us, and frankly that is going to "scare" most people

It only scares people who have been lied to their whole lives. I was raised by non religious parents, the lack of a god has never scared me even tho I don't want to die.

While you are entitled to your own opinions, you are not entitled to your own facts.

The creator of this universe made us eternal beings, and eternal beings we are. In fact, only eternal things matter, which would be obvious if you were not in an open state of rebellion against God. These things we go through in life all fade away, even during this life.

Only the eternal persists.

How do you suppose that benefits Alexander today?

In fact, how do you suppose that effected the world today?

Would that effect be present in a billion years?

Excuse me, I meant as irrelevant to me as can be.

dude its on the same continuum as any other physical system.

I can see that you do not subscribe to the interconnectedness of all things, nor to the butterfly effect.

Would you be so kind as to elaborate?

It provides objective meaning.

no ones listening to you christfag.

actualyl you could argue that alexandrians conquests set up a hellenic middle east which was important for the rise of christianity and christian theology.

>How do you suppose that benefits Alexander today?

I didn't claim that it does, you're the one waffling on about "resonating". You're a nobody living a nothing life, why should you "resonate"?

Well, it's really something that's discussed both on a spiritual level, and on a QM level (entanglement theory and such).

That we're either all part of some sort of godhead (Hindus etc.), striving for godhead (Mormons etc.) or being transformed into the very children of God (Christians).

There are some very cutting edge sciences that are also looking into what can only be described as metaphysical anomalies, where connections exist on a level we actually imagine them to exist, and do not exist where we do not imagine they exist.

Perhaps not, but they are reading what I'm posting and I am convinced that the word of the Lord does not return void.

The only things necessary for Christianity are the divine nature of Jesus of Nazareth and his resurrection, having paid the sin debt of mankind by offering himself as the lamb of God. Everything else has a different purpose.

Did you know that Alexander the Great did not sack Jerusalem because some rabbis showed him in Daniel where he was specifically prophesied to become the next world empire past the Medeo-Persian empire? That he, the leopard, would die childless? That his empire would go to his four generals, and waste away?

No?

Then I'm afraid you don't know much about the man at all, for it is why he stopped conquering the world. He, like Nebuchadnezzar ahead of him, realized that God puts people into power at his discretion, and on his timing.

Ah, but I'm not a nobody living a nothing life. That's only what your worldview tells you (along with some projection).

I'm an adopted son of God, looking forward to ruling and reigning with him for a thousand years over a renewed and refreshed earth, and then to go with the living God into eternity.

The same opportunity is open to you, as well.

Here's the thing: The more people like you post this retarded shit, the less credible and indeed sane you seem. You ARE hurting your own cause by posting this drivel, you're revealing your beliefs for the laughable idiocy they are.

You're a moron. My only regret is that you'll know how stupid you are, not in this life and not when you're dead.

you are god you fucking retard.
being god is boring so you come back here to forsake godhood.

No.

Thanks for the advice, but I'll keep doing what my God tells me to do, and you can keep doing what your god tells you to do, and we'll see just where the chips land.

You're right. I'll never think I'm a moron for choosing good, life, God and heaven over evil, death, satan and hell.

I've got a friend who cites daniel alot too.

I've studied alexander the great in university; i probably know alot more about him than you do. You should also read some ancient christian history about the many circumstances, events and streams of thought that are all factored into the outcome of roman and post-roman christianity and its theology.

You are in for a rude awakening. I suggest you shed yourself of your ignorance and learn the truth about your nature from your creator, and not from people sinking in the same boat you're in.

what are your beliefs about election and eschatology. do you believe you will be on god's committe governing from heaven?

I'm not really a fan of Rome, the Roman Empire, or the Roman Church, and I cannot imagine ever becoming one.

its almost impossible to think of christianity being around today if it didnt infect the roman empire. You probably wouldn't be christian. That's not to say people would'nt be religious. Manichaeism or zoarastianism or some other religion might have infected the roman empire. I doubt though that pagan religions would survive at all by now if they had been the main religion. There would probably be alot more atheists and maybe deists or something today

fan or not, some of if not a significant amount of your christian beliefs would have originated or been consolidated in the roman empire.

Not from heaven; heaven's coming here. The city you've heard about, the one with pearls for gates and a street of gold, is a satellite city 1,500 miles wide, 1,500 miles long, and 1,500 miles high. I say satellite city because it's clearly too big to rest on the earth, being about 2/3 the size of the moon.

Jesus says to men clearly that due to their faith and decisions, they will be ruling over a certain number of cities in his kingdom here on earth. Right now, those cities are ruled by angels loyal to satan, the god of this world. They will be replaced by us, and Jesus will replace all of the rulers of earth with his own kingly presence.

This will last for a thousand years, with the devil and his demons bound, until they are loosed for a bit, start another war against God, and are annihilated again. Then the great white throne judgment, then eternity.

As to election, I have never seen the problem with me choosing to be in God's family, confessing that Jesus is Lord, risen from the dead, and God's foreknowledge that I would do that from before he made the earth. He chose me before he made the earth, knowing that I would choose him in my lifetime. Same reason I see no conflict between our free will agency and God's foreknowledge, as he does not tell us everything and we cannot read his mind.

It may be impossible for you to consider, because you think there is a synchronicity between Catholics and Christians that I know not to exist.

The bible was written in the first century; the catholic church created in the fourth. I stick to the word of God, not man's traditions. To the greatest extent I can, of course. I have not made up new names for the days of the week, nor cared much for Ishtar and Saturnalia, but I do love having an evergreen tree in my house in the dead of winter.

and non-believers are arisen from the dead and go into the lake of fire? or do you believe they stay dead.

im just saying the roman empire is an important part of christianities history. Roman catholics and protestants will inevitably share some beliefs and some of those were consolidated during the roman empire.

Just prior to the great white throne judgment, death and the sea and hades, hell's waiting room, will disgorge all of the dead, and all of the dead will stand trial.

However, there will be survivors of that last war, people with the opportunity to be saved under whatever conditions apply to that time, and they too will be judged.

As Daniel and John both wrote, there are two resurrections; one unto shame and destruction in eternal fire, and one to glory and life with the living God. Everyone will have one or the other to wear as a new body forever.

You have to watch what you mean by "dead", as we mean "cessation of life functions" basically. To God, who is Life, being "dead" is being separated from him. He who has the Spirit has life; he who has not the Spirit has not life.

So people who choose to have nothing to do with God, who want to be separated from God forever, have chosen the second death, which is the Lake of Fire.

Your statement is akin to saying that the Holocaust was an important part of Judaism.

but is it a literal lake of fire?

Council of Nicaea.
What was Christianity was decided on.

how so?

Im sorry but it is... being the main religion of rome essentially set it up as the main religion of europe and through colonization, the world. I think it would be atleast somewhat less likely you would be christian today if it weren't for the roman empire... even if you don't share any interesting theology with with it.

probably a little bit more than that but yes, see, rome! alot of people dont realise how different or how many different ways mainstream christianity could have gone, only some of those being remnant today in very small places like maybe near east, ethiopia. All of those alternative being bullied out of the roman empire pretty much on socio-political reasons.

I think it is worse than a lake of fire, a pitch black lake of fire, by the way, but "pitch black lake of fire" is probably the best our language can do to convey the horror of it all.

Nothing to do with that council, or any other council.

1. Divinity of Jesus Christ; and
2. Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

As Romans 10:9-10 states, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead, you will be saved; i.e., you will be a Christian.

Rome, the Roman church, killed over 68,000,000 Christians and Jews in the past thousand years. By my count, that would be over 11 times worse than the Holocaust, which they also perpetrated.

I actually like that everything will sooner or later be lost in time. It makes stuff more special.

you wouldn't be christian if you never heard about it.

That's why you believe lies. It makes you feel better.

I'm not sure that's true. As Jesus said, any man who believed Moses and the prophets believed in Jesus, because they talked about Jesus (the messiah).

Anyone who contemplates the universe, and contemplates that it has to have some purpose to it, and some agency behind it, has already opened their heart to the gospel. I believe every man hears from the Holy Spirit at least once that there is a God, that God loves him, and has a plan for his life. And thus a choice, whether conscious or not, to want to be with God, or to have nothing to do with God, ever.

christianity became roman churches is main religion. and they oppressed them for political reasons, not becasue they didnt like the theology.

Also, i dont know where u get ur statistics, but i feel like it wouldnt be too ridiculous to make an educated guess that christianity has been the single biggest oppressor of other cultures and belief systems.

Who said anything had to matter
It doesnt
Just enjoy the ride

but they wouldn't believe in jesus.

>plan for his life.

>tfw when 68% of Veeky Forums will live and die NEET and alone. What kind of plan is that.

Belief in God is important to salvation.

Belief in the messiah is important to salvation.

Jesus is God.

Jesus is the messiah, the Anointed One.

It's a plan people choose when they do not consider the reality of an eternal life with the living God a real option.

but they wouldn't know the story of salvation, crucifixtion so how could they believe in jesus.

so you mean god doesn't have an individual plan for everyone in this life.

You're asking me how the ignorant savage is saved. I have already given you my answer to that. The Holy Spirit is witness to the fact that Jesus is Lord, and that Jesus rose from the dead. No man is beyond the communication abilities of the Holy Spirit. A man will hear the Holy Spirit if he wants to, and will not if he does not. God speaks directly to the heart of a man, to his center of being. And God makes good decisions.

Your question not only skips over a far more important question to you personally, which is "are you saved", but glosses right over the fact that the entire human race deserves to go to hell for the rebellion of Adam against God, and the natural consequences of being separated from God forever by that rebellion.

In fact, if you must know, what your spiritual father is saying through you is that God is not fair, God is not loving, and God is not just.

Perhaps it's time to stop learning about an imaginary god through the filter of your current spiritual father, aka the father of lies, and maybe it's time to meet God directly, for yourself.

Is that possible?

He does, but very few men allow God to direct their path in such a perfect way. If you leave here today with only one thought about God, it's that God will not force himself on anyone.

Shit source of meaning, eventually they'll be dead too. Eventually everyone will be dead. You should pursue what is meaningful to you personally.

but they dont get a chance to repent if they cannot hear the message.

are you telling me the holy spirit will specifically tell people about jesus?

>if

Because for a brief, glorious moment, we're not dead.

Think about it this way. From the beginning of the universe to the moment of your birth, you did not exist as a conscious entity. From the moment of your death to the end of the universe, as far as we can ever possibly know from our mortal perspective, you cease to exist as a conscious entity. In the brief timespan from your birth to your death, however, you are alive and conscious and can do whatever you wish (with some opposition, depending on what it is you want to do). This life that you have is all that matters, user. Whether you want to find meaning in it or not is your decision.

>Why does anything matter if we're all going to die?
It doesn't. But you might as well try to enjoy it.

you are right nothing matters. you are just programmed to care.

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