Was the Rape on Nanking as horrific as some the stories claim? There is something strange about the whole thing

books.google.com/books?id=N-vXRgEAPU0C&printsec=frontcover&dq=isbn:1845451805&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjuo_Oi5dPQAhXh1IMKHepFBQIQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=40,000&f=false

>These groups didn't actively exterminate an entire city

Sack of Mycales, destruction of Carthage, Indian Island Massacre

>just because they saw them as subhumans.

Literally semantics.

yep. it has been extensively studied as youll find out on a little research, but i advise against it because the whole thing is very very gruesome

Thanks sir! I'll stop thinking about it right this moment!

How did the japanese government manage to do this, and why can't indians and chinese replicate it?

40,000 is the number from Japanese sources.

240,000 is straight from the post-war USA fact finding mission.

Also, I never used the word "genocide" or made that claim.

>destruction of carthage

The Romans clearly saw the Carthagians as an advanced people. Also, no genocide occured.

>semantics
Straight from Japanese high officials mouths 1930-1945.

Lots of US aid, preferential trade deals, and free US military protection.

>why can't
Just because they have not does not mean can not.
China today is as developed and rich as Japan was when it joined the "developed" nations and OECD in 1964.

Yes.

The part that people have a problem with is when you compare it to other colonialists. Some people insist that Japan was uniquely awful as a colonizing power, or that dropping bombs from an aircraft at civilians is okay but shooting bullets from your gun at civilian is not.

Carthage continued to exist pretty much as normal after they were conquered by the Romans?

Or to what the Brits did at Badajoz in 1812

>that was a different time

>it wasn't wrong then

>it became wrong when an enemy of Britain did it

The US never did anything on the scale of Nanking you fucking weeb

>all these whataboutisms

Same with the holocaust

>b-b-but muh census data, surely no one has ever lied to escape inprisonment

There are more than enough people admitting to the atrocities they did during the Holocaust directly after they were convicted, decades after they were convicted and decades after they did it despite never being persecuted.

The USA has sent in it's fighting men to kill civilians in order to compel it's opponents to surrender. Successfully, during their war with Japan.

If Japan had successfully genocided the Chinese, we'd be talking about them in the same way as we talk about native Americans.

6 million of them? Trials and testimony only account for 100-200k at most, a far cry from 6 million.

Are you counting the killings carried out by the Einsatzgruppen?

Are you counting those who died of starvation under nazi policies?

Is there anything more autistic than a /pol/ weeb denying the Holocaust and the Nanking massacre?

>no genocide occurred in Carthage

The third punic war must've been a prank.

You'd never, in any other historiographical topic and in any other aspect of life, demand that standard of evidence that you're demanding here, and that very question also tries to imply that witness testimony is all evidence there is, which is false.

No one ever claimed that Japan successful genocided the Chinese.

The claim is that they attempted to genocide them.

Now kill yourself.

[Citation needed]

There is no evidence that the Romans genocided the Carthagians.

>official "camps" and testimony did not have anywhere near 6 million deaths
>b-but muh death squad killed 5.8 million

>No one ever claimed that Japan successful genocided the Chinese.

Nobody did in this thread, anyway.

>The claim is that they attempted to genocide them.

And if they did, we'd talk about the Chinese the same way we talk about the native Americans.

It's pretty sad that putting bullshit you made up into other people's mouths is all you can do.

Tens of millions of civilians died along the Russian Front. You are claiming that the six million Jews who lived in that area before the war were not among the victims?

>Nobody did in this thread, anyway.

What? Then what is your point? Who were you responding to?

>And if they did, we'd talk about the Chinese the same way we talk about the native Americans.

Do you have a point? A genocide doesn't require all the targeted people to be dead.

Not an argument.

Sure, but they were in uniform or killed by Russians and they should be discounted from le 6 million gassed and ovened

... my point is that if the Japanese had been as successful in genociding the people they conquered, as America had been, we would talk about their victims the same way we talk about native Americans.

>Sure, but they were in uniform or killed by Russians and they should be discounted from le 6 million gassed and ovened

Somebody told you that 6 million Jews were gassed during the War?

Genocide isn't exactly an accurate term to describe the third punic war but it's accepted as a well documented fact that the Romans utterly destroyed Carthage and massacred/enslaved whoever stood against them in the final moments of the war.

From Polybius
>Scipio, when he looked upon the city as it was utterly perishing and in the last throes of its complete destruction, is said to have shed tears and wept openly for his enemies.

What in the fuck are you on about. After Hannibal the hatred for Carthage among Romans was so fervent that Cato The Elder literally finished any and every speech with "Furthermore, Carthage must be utterly destroyed."

It's no exaggeration to say that the final Punic war was done mostly out of spite for the Carthaginian people. However, accounts of Romans salting the earth are entirely unfounded. The Carthaginian lands were very fertile and for Rome to salt those fields after conquering Carthage would be a spectacular JUST moment, especially considering the population boom going on in the city of Rome.

i think i heard somewhere that he wept because he thought that could have happened to rome

Not just Rome, but all cities and all people.

>[Citation needed]
why would the victors of a war record their own atrocities?

you'd be reading about american war crimes if japan won WWII.

>all these legal precedents

is Scipio /ourguy/?

I dont know if Oral Histories are your thing.

But this doc is really good if youre interested in learning more.

youtube.com/watch?v=jfkk-GtM_sI

The figures used by the CCP are probably on the high end but it definitely did happen. You have Rabe and a number of other foreigners who were there at the time.

All the focus on Nanking misdirects attention when the bulk of Japanese war crimes were committed under the 3 Alls policy. As I understand it (I might be wrong), Nanking wasn't really something the higher ups ordered as a strategic decision or whatever. They may not have done much to stop it either, but this differentiates it qualitatively from a strategic policy such as the 3 Alls.

>women refusing to jump from a burning building because people might see their underwear.
That didn't actually happen.

He saw the inevitable fate of all cities, rome included.

They were quite happy to write about it, and one of the most powerful cities in the Mediterranean just fucking vanished from the histories along with their people and wealth.

And the ruins clearly show signs of the fires. There's literally no debate among archeologists as to what happened to carthage.

literally firebombing Tokyo

literally atomic bombs

unironically mass rape during the occupation

The chinese are replicating it right now desu. The difference is that Japan is a tiny island nation and China has a billion people in one of the largest countries' by size. They also have a completely different strategic calculus going for them.

Japan before Meiji was a relative afterthought to the West, who were busy in China trying to extract as much from the sick man of Asia as possible.

China today isn't an afterthought, it is considered the strategic rival/enemy of everyone around it.

India again is a different story; its a miracle the place has not balkanized with how diverse it is.

How dare you. Diversity is their strength.