Veeky Forums - philosophy

Not everyone can be Mr. Peanutbutter.

Why extroversion specifically? Wouldn't happiness manifest in -anything- minus neuroticism?

You can't be happy alone. At most you can be not unhappy, which you will mistake for happiness since you are incapable of it.

Not him, but blind extroversion wont make you happy either unless you are the one in ten thousand guy.

Half-extroversion would fit better if we follow your theory. So people won't suck all your energy as much if you aren't perfect.

Then you have to wonder why self-actualization is on top of Maslow's hierarchy IF we make it the basis of "happiness". Also, introversion =/= isolation.

Extroversion doesn't imply resistance to alonedness, and neither does introversion imply a prone to alonedness. Take literature or the Internet for example; both are substantially employed by the introverted despite being modes of communication (human-to-human communication being the matrix of nonsolitary behaviour).

>happiness is extroversion minus neuroticism
H = E - N.
condition to happiness E >N. that would mean that a person without any neurotic symptoms (no depression, toc or anything alike proprer from a neurotic personality trait disorder) would be happy. Since Psychotics dont have any of the neurotic traits (they basicly get other symptoms like hallucinations, paranoia etc) Therefore psychotics would be necessarily happy. There for for Psychotics we would have :
H = E
I would suggest adding the psychosis to this formula.
H = E -N

Can autists be properly unhappy by themselves?
They are mostly unhappy when people around them are unhappy, because they recognize the suffering in their faces and expression. I don't think that, especially the far gone really broken ones, can rationalize a world view in which they would be unhappy by themselves.

So if you, the parent of an autistic child, through discipline and force of will, maintain the appearance of happiness in front of your autistic child, it would in turn lead a life of happiness, and would be more happy, for longer, than most "normal" people, who could through intelligence discover reasons to be unhappy for.

Also I think that the words "intelligence" and "wisdom" can find their way into a happiness formula, as intelligence increases tendency towards unhappiness (via seeing more to be unhappy about), while wisdom reduces unhappiness (via lowering expectations).

I really dont belive in those formulas, i just found some plesure writing this shit up. Good exercise. useful ?? no. There are no good ways to measure those things.
>Can autists be properly unhappy by themselves?
structure seems to give them pleasure, the idea behind the classic autism, that one that the person cant comunicate, is that of a global dictator. He in his mind thinks that he is one with nature. His ego cannot understand barriers between himself and the world. He uses the people around him as tools to do his bidding. When he needs something that he cant have, chaos configures and then he falls from the king of the world to a crushing reality were he is just not able to satisfy himself. So happiness is a very bad word when ou are thinking about psychology. ITs just the worse. I prefer the use of satisfaction. If a person is satisfied, there is nothing wrong. if he is not satisfied, or over satisfied (yeah, this is unpleasant too) then you start trying to fulfill your desires and to satisfy yourself. This "happiness" is an illusion created by publicity. Its just like that hot girl we want to fuck, but if we actually get to fuck, mabe we would relize its not that perfect. A job that you allways dreamed of but now that you got it, mabe you should try another one. so happiness to me is a target, that can change once you get there (and its better that it changes, or you can get sick). We are all dogs running after a plastic rabbit.

This pyramid presupposes some very important needs, namely (free) time and education. The 'hierarchy' assumes certain characteristics of a 'self' -- depending on one's disposition, one can "self-actualize" with less than even the 'Physiological' block. "Safeness," "Belongingness," and "Esteem" are all chimeras of matrix sociality.

Extroversion is neither positive or negative. It is a pattern of behavior.

Happiness, if it is a pattern of behavior, remains UNDEFINED.

If this pyramid is true, explain this

Why were a lot of famous artists and musicians depressed?

I'm the type of dude that doesn't like seeing discredited theories, so I am here to tell you that the pyramid of Maslow is one of those.
Maybe not Freud or Myers-Briggs tier, but still discredited.

Question begging. They asked "Why extroversion" and your answer was "Because you can't be happy without being extroverted."

Discuss?

I'd actually argue Myers-Briggs and Freud are both more right that that retarded as fuck pyramid, it literally takes a 12 year old to realize that pyramid makes zero sense

shut up NTgger

>tfw you're only the bottom two

maslows hierarchy is closer to ideology than psychology. its isnt science, it isnt necessarily true though it may help you. the extraversion neuroticism thing is alot more grained in systematic research.

extraversion is actually defined in alot of literature as your propensity to pursue reward or your sensitivity to reward (i guess in the outside world). extraverts tend to be happier because they pursue more positive experiences and social interaction.

On the extreme end though, i think very high extraversion is also linked to being more vulnerable to things like addiction and impulsivity though.

also this gets a ((you))

Atleast Freud has some things right, and Myers Briggs atleast is fun to put on your facebook profile

There is literally nothing right about the maslow pyramid

You would have to check across cultures, extroversion is the social norm in the West, but perhaps not elsewhere, say the East. So extroversion really just lowers neuroticism and raises happiness simply for being the social norm.

I actually recently toyed around with yourmorals.org. So, I think you need to take self-testing questionnaires with a huge pile of salt considering human self-deception.

But anyway there I scored higher as average on happiness (which was actually a keyboard test not a questionnaire) while being low on extroversion and about average neuroticism. I do not even believe in happiness and I have to deal with a mental illness (bipolar disorder), so I was surprised - and again - it was a keyboard test.

But I suppose I could be the outlier. Seems very likely actually. Though wouldn't rule out other factors for happiness, even such a thing as religion.

>extroversion is the social norm in the West

a lot more in the US than in Europe actually

>a lot more in the US than in Europe actually
You are right. I am assuming however that my country the Netherlands is about the same as the US.
Here's my score, though I have to say it is not much higher as the average.

Extraverts actually have longer life expectancy on average

In the USA the parents kick out the child or ask it to pay rent.
In Europe the child lives with the parents, even after marriage sometimes, and often with the grand parents too.

Do americans even have the "extended family" structure? As in, in practice, as a team that plays together, not just as a word.

I am Dutch too, and I think the Netherlands is a lot more introverted than the US is

yeah i heard somewhere that like shyness or reservedness becomes more of a problem for people in western countries than in the east where its naturally more reserved. in a way though i think "extraversion" in terms of social norms is not the same as extraversion in personality though. I dont think they necessarily have to be the same at all.

and god yes, americans are so friendly.

>I dont think they necessarily have to be the same at all.
Possible. The Big Five does assume to be more of a innate model.
We should have access to Asian Big Five results and see if extroversion is about the same or not.

i just think they dont necessarily have to be. I mean, you get other examples of similar behaviours/dysfunction through different kinds of mechanisms so yeah. But i agree that extraversions effect on happiness probably does depend alot on the context you find yourself in and in some contexts may be completely different. think its very possible in other cultures extraversion isnt associated with happiness as much.

Having the self awareness to choose the right suffering, i.e., neurotic suffering is compensatory and misplaced. Real suffering for a goal or desire fully known is the way to go.