Death Toll of Communism and Socialism

What is the total death count of these ideologies? If you know how much were caused by wars do to with them as well, include them.

They couldn't beat the Roman Catholic kill count of 120 million people.

Also, if anyone can interpret this table and it's deaths due to communist and socialist states/quasi-States etc. that would be great. I'm having a hard time understanding it

It's a pointless endeavor to do with any sort of accuracy. Because how to accurately define the phrase killed by communism or socialism.

Not applicable to the question, also the absolute lowest estimate for deaths is 94 million, so it could easily beat it. Is this death count since the inception of the religion? I'd say over how long that ideology has lasted that's pretty low, especially compared to the total over 100 year or so time period since the first application of communism. Also if you felt like you had to bring it up to counter this thread without addressing the question I'd presume you sympathise with this ideology/hate the religion so I'd have to see what your including in it to get that figure.

>Death toll of authoritarianism

What's the total death count of this ideology? Including people killed in wars to do with it.

Is anyone going to answer the question or address it at least or will everyone dodge or bring up shit that isn't even related like this? Not all authoritarianism is created equal, you'd be including the entirety of the top part of the political spectrum, comparing slightly authoritarianism capitalism to Stalism, Maoism, feudalism etc

>Did x person die due to the policies, actions, or lack of action by a group of people/politicians espousing adherence to Socialist, Communist, Marxist, Leninist, Maoist, or Stalinist ideals?
If the answer is yes, then that person can be said to have been "killed by Communism or socialism".

Well it's a dumb question. you could post figures detailing the deaths caused by policies of leaders associated with Marxist ideology. But most of those deaths probably have very little to do with Marx/Engel etc's thought of systems of capital. Sending political prisoners to gulags and deliberately starving areas of the country you don't like, for example, have nothing to do with communism.

Communism necessitates an all powerful state for its goals to be met. There is no way to create a libertarian communist state, the fundamental of communism is to create a classless society (correct me if this doesn't accurately describe it to you). How does one make an inherently class based species, like the majority of mammals, especially social mammals are biologically?

Also, mass killings are an inherent part of communism unlike what you have stated. Marx knew that they were necessary to advance the ideology

Well would you call the people in Stalins purges a death toll of communism. I mean they weren't killed for any socialistic reason they were killed because Stalin's need for power and paranoia.
I don't think it is fair to blame communism and socialism for every death caused by leaders who stated they it followed. I feel the same way about any sort of dictator who followed capatism.

Stalins need for power directly would have stemmed from his communist/socialist ideology, or vice versa. I understand what you mean, but you'd have to bring up an individual mass killing or even killing under his regime and it be analyse individually to see if it should for under "death by communism" but if your logic is that this individual event shouldn't just because of his power hunger, than it should be included, as like I've said communism needs all powerful states that kill anyone they suspect of going against their agenda. Nowhere is the statement "power corrupts an absolute power corrupts absolutely" more true for communism

>posting fake quotes

Half the quote comes from Marx, half the quote comes from Engel, so still holds true, you fuck wit. Also, you're not addressing any of the argument, using non-arguments, still haven't addressed the question etc. So reddit for you? Maybe some lefty Facebook page like OD or "being liberal"?

>Half the quote comes from Marx, half the quote comes from Engel, so still holds true, you fuck wit.
Is it, now? Would you mind posting the original text where marx mentions a "revolutionary holocaust"?

>Also, you're not addressing any of the argument, using non-arguments, still haven't addressed the question etc
I'm not the person you're arguing with. Although i'm pretty sure pointing out your lie constitutes an argument.

Communism only necessitates an all powerful state for its goals to be met if you consider the State to be equivalent to the People.

Which is basically how modern representative governments are justified at all, but that doesn't make it actually true. It's just the best that could have been done at that time.

In theory, ownership of the means of production could be achieved through the decentralization of the means of production- an easy example being the decentralization of the means by which electricity is generated, through the gradual distribution of, say, solar panels or whatever.

'Course, that brings up the matter of how to distribute the chain of production that gives rise to solar panels. Stuff like 3D printers are a pretty decent precursor for the sort've tech that'd be needed.

And then you have the question of simple raw materials, which is the most difficult question of all. How can something like that be decentralized? You'd have to make going to space trivial, which we won't see in our lifetimes.

But you can see how, gradually, these things could be distributed amongst the populace for collective ownership of the means of production via decentralized individual ownership.

>Half the quote comes from Marx, half the quote comes from Engel
You're forgetting about the "holocaust" bit, which comes from nowhere and is clearly a disingenuous attempt on the part of the maker of the image to mislead people into thinking that Marx and Engels advocated for the systematic mass killing of whole groups of peoples.

The actual term used in the original text, Weltsturm, does not translate well to holocaust.

Anyway, what is your argument actually? All you've posted so far is low-level bait.

>only 38k die to famine in democracies while 45M die under communist regimes
wew

0, since those ideologies have never been tried.

>"Oh hey Tommy, I see you got 95% on your final exam, but because you didn't get 100%, you get absolutely no credit whatsoever"

Not that many. State capitalism sure killed a lot though

>Oh hey Tommy, for your paper on communism and socialism I see that you chose to write about nationalistic authoritarian regimes who pander to far-left ideals. It was a very well written paper, but nonetheless I have to give you a failing grade because you didn't address the topic at hand.

The eternal question for commies and socialists is how many more people need to die before they call off this retarded bullshit.

The rest of the world seems to have answered this question, but they wish we'd keep going.

Religions can't kill you stupid ideologue.
Imagine a tribal society, now remove all hierarchies from it including those of gender, age, etc. Now inject capitalist technology, productivity, etc., into it while keeping the structure. The result is a society where there is always enough, there is no alienation because comfortable living is inherent, and all labour is a voluntary creative force done for its own sake. One's labour is both their own and their gift to all others, and it is perfectly mutual of all proportional to their creative capacity.
Everybody has to die, really. Contemporary capitalism makes everyone a capitalist (the creation of more was predicted, but as far as I know not to this extent.)

>The result is a society where there is always enough

Scarcity will always exist (especially once you realize time itself for each life is limited, so time is indeed scarce), so this is false.

>no alienation

Marxist gobbledygook.

>One's labour is both their own and their gift to all others, and it is perfectly mutual of all proportional to their creative capacity.

Utopian, just beyond a level Marx and Engels would have dared state even if they dreamed it.

>Contemporary capitalism makes everyone a capitalist

So we are all capitalists, but when was capitalism's beginning? If you are following Marxist historiography, when did the bourgeoisie revolution deliver us capitalism and establish the bourgeoisie in power? Surely there is a provable beginning to this thing we are (apparently) obviously in.

What's the death count on capitalism? How many people has the west killed since the birth of capitalism? Abroad and at home

Honestly in terms of direct responsability, it cant be over 200,000,000

I will give you that the many of communist states have promotes the formation of these absolutist governments.

That's retarded. By your logic, essentially every murder victim was killed by capitalism

Between 90 and 100 million.

Even if that's not bullshit, communism got pretty close in a 20th of the time Catholicism has existed.