How does Veeky Forums feel about Obamacare?

not entirely familiar with it but it sounds like a step towards the extremely inefficient and burdensome single-payer system, the choice of mandated monopolist the world over

next thing you see will be a PAYG pension system and you'll be just like us yuropoors, broke and overtaxed with subpar services you cannot opt out of unless you decide to live within the confines of black economy

this system cannot crash soon enough desu senpai

>Muh free market always solves everything ever

There's always a private option you dumb nigger. Again insurance companies do everything they can to not pay out. Insurance is also the middleman driving up health care costs further.

I don't like everything about say Canada for example, but my grandparents hate socialism but ironically can't shut the fuck up about how great their healthcare situation is there versus here. It's cheaper to fly there and have shit done and they never have to worry about going bankrupt. That sounds like freedom to me. The freedom to not get fucked.

There is a lot more potential in complete privatization without governmental interference, your payments will be marginal and quality outstanding, tenfold more than Canada's. Stop comparing the US's system of healthcare to Canada's as to why this suggestion won't work, it's very inaccurate as both are very distinguished.

>There's always a private option you dumb nigger.
There can't be a private option if everyone is forced to pay for the public option.

Tell me exactly how insurance improves the quality of care. You can't because it's entirely overhead. That's what I want in my healthcare, more overhead.

America does have good health outcomes, but it's marginally better and we pay out the ass for it. People talked about death panels are coming when insurance companies have been deciding your life for decades already.

You can still buy private insurance in Canada if you feel you need more.

Insurance improves the quality of care because insurance companies that cover you for higher-quality establishments become less and less expensive.

The typical American is overweight, inactive and ageing... no system private or public is going to be able to deal with the economic mess that's going to cause

By that logic why not just pay the hospital directly instead of paying a middleman who's goal is to make money off you and deny service whenever possible? Come on man insurance does not provide care, they are merely the gatekeeper. The collision between them and the health care industry is why prices are so high.

Insurance does not give a damn about your health and well-being and I'm not sure why you're shilling so hard for them.

Insurance companies that deny service will eventually fail under complete privatization due to competition. Everything will normalize and embody a great favor for a people. You don't pay directly because of the entire appeal of insurance which is to cover you after something.

Except the vast majority of people don't pick their insurance themselves, their employer chooses, and the employer does not care which one has better service, they care which one is cheapest, so your scenario kind of falls apart.

Then an environment where individuals choose their own would flourish if it would allow them to get better service. Employers that allow them to choose would succeed as they will grapple the most competent employees as they'll generate greater pools.

>I pay more into ACA than I get out
>If you take away ACA I'm going to die though
Doesn't check out, he might be right about the first but he's definitely wrong about the second. He makes more than enough to afford insurance under the new legislation, its really not even all that different from ACA.

You live in this idealized fantasy world where it will all just work out. The reality is while people wait for your scenario to maybe work out people will die which isn't very fun.

Single payer works now, is cheaper. Is it without issue? Of course not, it should constantly be improved or until something comes along that's better.

You act as if healthcare isn't something you really need right now, but the fact is when you do need it you really fucking wish you had it.

I think his whole spiel is that he could be denied coverage without the ACA.

Which look yea I hate that he can destroy himself but if we deny him coverage because of that then where does it end?

>"oh you lived near a coal plant you should have known that would be bad for your health, sorry we don't have to cover that but thanks for paying!"

He can't be denied coverage without ACA, the new bill still guarantees coverage to people with preexisting conditions, which I personally think the fatfuck should be denied because being a lazy fatfuck shouldn't be considered a preexisting condition.

Both your solution and mine imply that the issues will only subside over time. They both contain a reality where people will die during the periods of development. Criticizing mine for that is a dull move.
Healthcare will be easily available, of high quality, and completely covered by insurance companies with little exceptions under this proposition.

Show me an example of another country with a solution similiar to yours. I don't buy it. Free market and no regulation always sounds good on paper but I don't want my life in the hands of people who can turn me down because it's financially in their interests to do versus I've payed my taxes I get my healthcare.

I'm again not saying single payer solves everything.

And show me an example of a country that embraces your system that works, you can't. I can say that every capitalist country that existed before the war on poverty complied with my system.

Switzerland.

You get a free right to the waiting queue whereas you'll perish.

Nice meme, there's a reason I didn't list somewhere like the UK.

Are you serious? Many first world countries, UK, Canada, Norway, Australia etc etc and you know what? People love it. They don't have to worry whether or not they'll get laid off and be without health insurance, or that they'll be denied coverage. Tell them how it works here and they cringe. Even our president said that Australia has better healthcare.

Come on dude at least be honest.

Yeah.... you 'Mericans that are a fucking giddy about your failure of Obamacare are dumb as shit.

Your entitlements are coming to an end.

How it works here isn't what I'm fighting for you absolute autist. Read the thread.
What's memeish about it? It's a legitimate issue that wouldn't exist in the free market.

That's a meme too and you're being dishonest. People die here in the states too from a lack of healthcare or guy into debt for the rest of their lives. I'd take some waiting over the alternative. It's not like they don't follow triage.

>Its a legitimate issue
No, long wait queues in Switzerland is not a legitimate issue

>Yeah.... you 'Mericans that are a fucking giddy about your failure of Obamacare are dumb as shit.
>Your entitlements are coming to an end.

shit hits the fan by 2035

Read the damned thread, what he have currently in the United States isn't what I am brawling for, pay attention I had to say this twice. The United States' system doesn't embody the free market system, get it through your skull.

>shit hits the fan by 2035

10 Trillion dollars in 8 fucking years.

THANKS OBAMA!

Alright then, I didn't know that, but regardless.
Tax dollars being sacrificed is an issue, so is the job creation that normally comes along with insurance industries. Also the competitive advantages I elaborated on will not appear under that system.

>10 Trillion dollars in 8 fucking years.
>THANKS OBAMA!

For a black president, it sure seemed like Obama really secretly hated niggers.

>Muh debt

You faggot go to every thread posting this shit. Do realize if the U.S. is fucked the world is fucked as it all rolls downhill.

Either way the U.S. Government doesn't operate like a personal checking account despite what your peepaw may have told you.

>I didn't know that but regardless, people have to pay taxes to pay for this
No shit.
>job creation of insurance companies
Not a problem, Switzerland has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world.

>Do realize if the U.S. is fucked the world is fucked as it all rolls downhill.

Why do moron always assume we can just print or borrow our way out of this when the massive debt is partially caused by our over printing and borrowing.

Just because the buck hasn't stopped doesn't mean it will never stop.

Still have that lackluster development to deal with, also Switzerland is a tax haven for industries as it can trade with the EU. A nation has to be scammed for this to operate.

I'm not arguing that faggot. I don't buy that the free market solves everything just like I don't buy that the government solves everything you libertarian faggot.

Single payer works better than what we have now, I don't buy your idealized dogma.

>be a responsible adult
>buy private health care
>only pay $150 a month and receive great coverage and have a great doctor
>Obama is elected
>he says I'll get to keep my doctor and my coverage
>lose my doctor because Obama lied
>lose my coverage because Obama lied
>now I'm paying $300 a month and I'm getting half the coverage I had before because Obama made my grandfathered plan illegal
>no media outrage about Obama literally taking away my healthcare and giving it to a bunch of lazy, irresponsible morons who couldn't bother to buy private healthcare on their own
>move to Japan
>enroll in Japanese healthcare program
>stop paying for American healthcare and stop paying American taxes

I'm really enjoying watching everyone lose their Obamacare. Now you retards know how I felt years ago when Obama took away mine.

The real joke here is private healthcare used to be cheaper than Obamacare. Now private healthcare is fucked forever. Nice legacy, Obama.

I think that both systems are better than what we have now, just that this one is even better. If you don't buy it than claim why and contribute as opposed to wasting time by not partaking.

>lackluster development
One of the best healthcare systems in the world kind of makes a mockery of that claim
>A nation has to be scammed for this to happen
Why should they care? Its in a nation's best interests to extract every bit of value that they can from every other nation, its only idiotic countries where the people have overly altruistic attitudes that they go around throwing money away instead of putting their own people above foreigners.

Free market is a lie fed to greedy "muh tax dollars" alt-right racists. The financial elite appeal to these low IQ individuals because they're the only ones dumb enough to fall for removing consumer protections and directly hurting themselves in the name of profit. Anyone who fell for the small government, anti-regulation rhetoric got played just like everyone in the 80s.

Then why do their controlled media outlets and educational establishments regurgitate rhetoric against these concepts?
Hence my point, every nation will eventually care. No more scamming, no more tax haven as trade deals that trick a nation cease to exist.

Healthcare costs were and are rising despite the ACA. I bet if you went back and reread your policy you'd notice it didn't cover anything substantial hence the price.

Congratulations though Japan has universal health coverage.

>Every nation will eventually care
No they really don't do you pay no attention to how much money countries like the US throw away in foreign aid? How many low skilled foreigners and "refugees" these countries let in? Most of Western Europe is full of idiotic policies, are easily taken advantage of, and deserve to be taken advantage of.

I think I know my own healthcare plan better than you do.

Then why should the US embrace it, as we are damaged by dangerous trade deals and foreign aid grants? Those taxes would be a whole lot heftier here, dontcha think? You're debating to install this system, which is most optimal for succeeding countries that obtain victory on an international scale, in a country that is losing.

US shouldn't embrace it because we are neither an ethnically nor culturally homogenous population with a strong work ethic.

wut

>muh controlled media
>muh librul academic agenda

I imagine it's because most people don't like the idea that their healthcare is in the hands of people who really are only interested in turning a profit. Hardly surprising.

I'd be surprised if you did because most people don't.

The ACA is a shitty band-aid but both sides of the aisle can claim it as they had to strip it down to this money grab for insurance companies to get it passed.

Foreign aid builds goodwill towards America. It also make countries more open to US businesses which helps maintain American hegemony. That's good for all Americans. We do need to do more at home I agree but the foreign aid budget is a drop in the bucket.

I approve of immigration if we focus on taking other countries skilled workers. Brain drain in our favor is key.

Obamacare is a half ass abomination brought about by partisanship. Single payer is reasonable, but with the amount of geriatric fucks and fat fucks who knows. All I know is that healthcare is expensive as fuck now. But hey the womyn get free condoms which obviously gets rid of all its faults.

>I approve of immigration
Immigration is always harmful unless immigrants are forced to assimilate fully.

It is WAAAAAAYYYY fucking cheaper to subsides contraceptives than it is to pay for 18 years of a bastards life who may or may not turn out to be productive citizen.

This should be a no brainer.

Way to ignore the rest of that sentence.

Generally the skilled workers handle that themselves, it's the people with no skills that come and live in ghettos who shit the place up.

You can still subsidize contraceptives without the monstrosity that obamacare is.

I agree single payer is miles better, I'm not arguing that, but to pick on that one thing in the ACA is asinine.

You think that the media isn't controlled, yet you think that the elite is something that has power over almost everything? Pick one.
And yes. educational establishments have received stimulus packages that the state has dealt with them in return for them to inject liberal-aligned teachings. It's a practical socialized industry,
>Goodwill towards America
Not worth billions in tax dollars, and not worth funding socialistic governments that only wish to bolster their reliant population.
There is really no way to apply filtration to acquire the smart ones.
Then we agree that for the US to encompass the largest amount of prosperity a completely privatized path is the way to go.

I did not ignore the rest of that sentence. The majority of "skilled" workers coming in are Indians who do not full assimilate and who frankly tend to produce shit tier code while driving wages down for high skilled jobs for those already here.

I was just using it to demonstrate that one good thing does not make up for its awfulness.

>Then we agree that for the US to encompass the largest amount of prosperity a completely privatized path is the way to go.
Sure, my issue was with your assertion that single payer can't work anywhere, not that it can't work in the US.

The argument revolved around the US, not any hypothetical environment.

It did, but then you acted like it never works anywhere, demanding an example of it doing just that. Then when provided one you flailed about at first with baseless assumptions to attempt to say that it doesn't work there instead of simply accepting that it does due to different circumstances.

Fair point. I'm just really hesitant on this branch of thinking regarding state intervention and socialism considering it's history.
Also the point of development still stands, and without international trade it'd be pelting Switzerland hard.

>You think that the media isn't controlled, yet you think that the elite is something that has power over almost everything? Pick one.

The media is driven by ratings and ad revenue. They'll push what gets viewers.

>Not worth billions in tax dollars, and not worth funding socialistic governments that only wish to bolster their reliant population.
??? It's pretty cheap price to pay for the amount we gain back in influence.

>There is really no way to apply filtration to acquire the smart ones.
The media is controlled by elties to brainwash the populace but their IS NO WAY TO TELL IF SOMEONE IS A SKILLED WORKER holy shit do you listen to yourself?

I know what you are arguing for, an isolationist America. However, if we stop leading the world we become irrelevant and someone else will take over (Aka China) and reap the decades of benefits we have been exploiting. American hegemony is key to America's growth and safety. We either run the global economy or we get pushed by the wayside.

>without international trade
Yeah, and if gold fell from the sky every time it rained it'd be worthless.

Indians are the highest earning ethnic group in America with lots of Engineers and Doctors so it's odd for you to shit (kek) all over them. These rolls are unfortunately not being filled by Americans so it's in our interest to poach other countries best. As long as the pay their taxes and follow the law who gives a fuck?

I do because median income in my field has fell by tens of thousands of dollars since we started handing out H-1Bs like candy.

Well technically I think it grants states the right to decide whether or not they want to remove that provision or leave it in place

No they have to assimilate if they don't go to church and watch football on sundays they are ruining the country and need to go back

I'm not saying their isn't issues. H1-B1's originally weren't supposed to operate as a source of cheaper skilled labor, but as what I've been suggesting above (a way to poach the best.) Hopefully the new administration addresses the abuse. Either way if you're not earning more now as time advances that's entirely on you because I'm still killing it in IT.

>If they have no desire to assimilate and if they keep the culture of wearing a burka, oppressing their women, oppressing religious freedoms & rights, then they need to go back to their racist shitholes.

Well said my friend

>thinks poaching Indians is in any way poaching the best
>obviously hasn't dealt with their coding practices
Stop bullshitting, you're not in IT.

Agreed.

>>IT is entirely made up of just coders
Sorry you're a code-monkey, but our company only hires the best Hungarian coders. I just consult aka shitpost half the day for great pay. (^:

The American media is heavily incorporated to the state, received many of stimulus packages that keeps most outlets running, and dined with the Clintons a day before her campaign. It's spearheaded by Comcast, one of the biggest lobbies, and you truly believe that views is the only driving force of each outlet, especially when each major one spews the precise same libtard narrative except for Fox, who was staunchly against Trump during the republican primaries.
I don't want to allow these different states to rapidly grow under a communist government, the influence we get back is surely not worth our tax dollars especially with our military might.
And yes, it's very difficult to exclusively allow entrance to a group based off of intelligence, and very expensive to do so at that.
>Muh media being ideologically influence is RIDICULOUS, by the way let's use our trusty mind reading skills to determine the worthy workers.
Daft twit.

>poos wear burkas

>
>I do because median income in my field has fell
>has fell

Might just be your income, usually you are stuck with low wages when uneducated

>Tries to debunk his personal experience online by stating that no person in IT ever has any time at all to browse a thread on Veeky Forums for roughly an hour
>Once refuted, just calls opposition uneducated
Typical.

>received many of stimulus packages that keeps most outlets running

Are you ranting about NPR?

Private news makes plenty off of ad revenue. But if they are oh so powerful how do they let a conman get the presidency?

If you don't think Trump isn't apart of the state now boy get ready to be very disappointed.

>I don't want to allow these different states to rapidly grow under a communist government, the influence we get back is surely not worth our tax dollars especially with our military might.

But it is and the military agrees that the state department foreign aid is a good thing. Also the military is preparing heavily for the affects of global warming but that's all just a conspiracy amiright?

Are you going to start talking about pizzagate next? Go back to your containment board.

That isn't me you dumb nigger.

And then I said, "you can keep your doctor."

I am a different user, and my native language isn't even English and yet I still would never have made a mistake like that. Because of education.

And to the point itself. Maybe the median income in IT fell, but it was not because of worse workers (who are worth only lower wages) but instead because they simply demanded less money for the same job, as happens all the time in a market economy.

>force employers to pay for insurance
>use it as an argument against privatization
>force opponent to do do something you can blame them for later

liberals never change

Also I'd argue the media was inadvertently Trump's biggest ally, yea they all shit on him but he received free 24/7 coverage. No candidate got as much air time has he did. Are you telling me the powers that may be are so inept?

I'm more so against their culture of incest, deterrence from Western principles of economic freedom, polyamory, deterrence from any and all western principles including economic freedom, and teen pregnancy being upon a silver platter. But yeah, screw the burka and domestic violence that refuses to prop up stable marriages, the male should be the dominant figure but not to this degree.
They tried to steal the presidency from Trump, videos of voting machines rigged for Hillary Rotten, word of Democrats busing illegals to voting stations, and employees who mandated the polls being allowed to wear BLM shirts are some examples. All of these tactics deployed by clients of the state, therefore indirect affiliates of the media.
Allowing foreign populations to skyrocket under communism is not only cruel but also destructive to the development of our world, as the elites will be inclined to import these people (See the refugee crisis)
>Muh pizzagate is 100% DEBUNKED and RIDICULOUS
There is very viable and substantial evidence that reinforces this theory, stemming from that goldfish picture of Podesta to statues of ancient pedophiles meeting with praise by the elites.
If you are against the elites, you cannot be a socialist or liberal, as they are spreading both of these things while slashing their opposition. You trust the media as something not in their grasp which is stupid.
I bet you watch Colbert or John Oliver, or perhaps read that shitty book written by Sanders and found your entire ideology off of what's projected there.
They expended every effort into denouncing Trump and bolstering Hillary which drove suspicion against them. They even still produce propaganda against Trump's principles, and place Hillary on a pedestal beyond criticism, even if the contrary would've clearly been better business for them. If they were his biggest ally they would've spoke positively about him while simultaneously granting him the most attention.

Molymeme is on the money when he says the left cannot defend itself through logic so it has to do anything it can whether its importing 70 iq inbred apes from Africa to pollute the high IQ native vote or outright brainwashing kids with pseudoscience.

Funny how this hypothesis is really not plausible considering that these professional jobs provide less and less revenue that declines alongside the growth of foreign imports.
Sorry, the names were both a dark blue and had the incentive to debate that guy.