/smtg/ - 真・女神転生/Shin Megami Tensei General

What's the best way to play IMAGINE nowadays? I've seen several methods but which one is the most reliable?

What exactly are you looking for most in the games would you say?

I just want an engrossing experience whether through the world, cast or story. Just something to take my mind off of life and engross me and overwhelm me for a while.

Soul Hackers is pretty good, overall every aspect is pretty well done though it shows its age in a few aspects. The cast has a real charm to them and the plot is enjoyable. I see many say it's "the most 90's game game ever made", take that as you will. However it is rather short, at least by megaten standards. Main story 30 hours, though it also has a binus ending that can only be done on NG+ and some post game content.

The DeSu games are a odd bunch. Personally I find the cast really weak, though DeSu1's is a bit better then DeSu2's. The overall stories have some interesting aspects but I feel the characters sort of bring it down from its full potential. However the gameplay is pretty damn good and addicting. Each one should take 40-45 hours for the main story and post game is quite long in the 3ds version.

The Raidou games are a weird pair. Raidou 1 has maybe the best overall cast and plot in all of SMT with great atmosphere and world but the gameplay can be repetitive. I myself don't think it's as bad as most make it out to be but I can see where they're coming from. Raidou 2 improves gameplay greatly but the plot is just nowhere near as strong. The cast is equally good and the new characters are just as quality as the returning ones but the overall story is just sort of weird with a lot of plotholes and weird concepts that are hit or miss.

Also if you haven't maybe look Strange Journey, or if you're waiting for DSJ then I suppose wait. SJ can be emulated pretty well.

Hope this helps you narrow it down a bit. All are great games though, look into them all when you can.

You know I have to ask, especially to anyone knowledgeable or experienced in Hinduism, does Shiva being chaos seem wrong? I'm not very knowledgeable about him but from what I can tell he uses his destruction as a means to cleanse and rebuild humanity and people in general. I would say he is more neutral it seems, he uses destructive behavior for what is a more or less good cause in most cases. I find it interesting though that Parvati, his wife, is law though.

Depends on the sect we are talking about. Shaivism Shiva (late Puranic) is basically similar to YHVH, but the broader Puranic view would put him in the light neutral to light chaos range.

Isn't the SMT Shiva based on his Destroyer form?

How do the angels being in Yosuga make any sense? Why would a weaker angel join a group where they can just be killed by stronger angels?

Is this the greatest piece of irony ever put into a story?

IDK, but Yosuga has some similarities with the SJ law (whereby those with weaker wills get killed off and the stronger ones all come together as one to praise YHVH forever). So maybe the angels are exempt from this since they are divine?

Angels in Nocturne are sort of weird. Since humans are dead they sort of just wonder aimlessly, divine is actually labeled neutral in nocturne as apposed to every other game where they're obviously law. I imagine it may be the idea that those who too weak to live under their new world, one completely ruled by YHVH due to now being only demons, then you should die. The problem is what Yosuga classifies as weak is sort of weird. If you eliminate the weakest entity then the second weakest entity becomes the weakest and a pointless cycle is created. If this is more like SJ or IV chaos however it might just mean "strong enough to live in a lawless world and fend for yourself, being free to establish your own rule if your strong enough".

Or the developers just wanted to try something weird I suppose.

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>destruction as a means to cleanse and rebuild humanity and people in general

that sounds pretty chaos to me

at least when it comes from the chaos reps mouths, ignoring the demons ruling afterwards they always leave out

I gave it some thought and it also made it seem Yosuga even stranger. I get the impression that chaos in the other games is very loosely organized or not at all. Demons share the same ideal of chaos but that doesn't mean they hang out together. Weaker chaotic demons will avoid stronger ones to protect themselves.
Yosuga's chaos poses some problems because it's an organized group that also blatantly states that it's weaker members are trash. Why would anyone join this group unless they were the strongest demons?

Fair enough. For me I always thought of chaos as more about regarding the individual. Chaos is about someone being able to create influence through their power alone. It's more about destroying social barriers like gender, race, ethnicity, and religion and creating a society where people can determine their value through their own effort.

The problem I guess is that chaos is left a bit more vague compared to law in the games. You have some characters like Chiaki who are literally "WORLD OF STR" and just social darwinist and then you have people like Walter who wanted to just create a more simple and primitive society with more traditional values.

Actual shiva probably wouldn't be chaos, but dharmic things in the games are treated as such. If you notice, shiva and vishnu are treated as chaos and law based on thier qualities series-wide. In if the associations of preservation and metamorphosis / destruction are associated with the alignments without even the hindu element.

You have to keep in mind the psychological element to this. The sides they are on is also meant to represent what they represent as a psychological archetype. Sometimes this involves stretching. But as a whole, shiva's power seems destructive. Note though that being chaos aligned doesn't mean you side with chaos per say.

To me I feel like what chaos means to demons is more diverse compared to what law means to demons. Law means order, all law demons seek order, just to varying degrees and by different means. Chaos meanwhile sort is a weird case. For some demons chaos is just that, chaos. Some demons genuinely want a lawless world where they can do as they please with no repercussions. Meanwhile others advocating chaos are more along the lines of the concept of freedom. They want "chaos" in the concept of differing ideals existing and be settled through physical conflict.

Yosuga is like the worst parts of chaos mixed with the worst parts of law to make a world where STR is law. Literally the worst alignment in any smt game.

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In nocturne its not supposed to make sense. The world is literally an inverted world. So the logic of reality is breaking down. Why this is happening and what it means is ambiguous. Are these regular angels who now free from the law side are making their own side? Or is even the archetype of "angel" breaking down, and so maybe they are beings who weren't even angels in their original world? Its not meant to cohere to ordinary alignments, but to specifically fly against them. Though the reason is left ambiguous.

What is really being admitted here is that the goal chaos wants is still a type of order. In mainline its just called chaos since you get to it via rebellion, and it is defined as what just kind of exists in that state of struggle. Here you remove the aspect of rebellion. The world is simply that way from the beginning. And so while it is still chaotic in a sense, it is simply the order of the world. Its an odd way to distinguish it, but in a way they are asking whether what you liked about chaos was this aspect, or mainly the rebellion aspect. So would you still like it without the latter? It seems like a pointless distinction, because rebellion for the sake of rebellion is stupid. If you don't like the goal, why aim towards it?

But yeah, basically. They're just kind of pointing out that what chaos is is not inherently chaotic. It can be a system in and of itself.

never fought the fiends in IV, is this accurate?

youtube.com/watch?v=ioBuaFxYpqc

No, finding them is waay harder than fighting them.

In my headcanon it's that the creation is YHVH's will, and Yosuga is the only option with possibility for the cycle continuing after it's set in place, so the angels are on board because it's the closest to god's will

that or they're just not connected with god in this game and they're the same as regular demons

Metatron's connected with god, I don't see why the Archangels wouldn't be

I did get that sense as well. Chaos demons want power, but what do they want to do with that power? Probably impose their will on others and create a version of order that's okay with them.
Do you mean that in Nocturne, it's a choice between peace and conflict? That seems to be a lot more interesting than the other games since as you said the two sides are basically the same except one is the status quo.

This makes no sense. The game never implies that only chaotic worlds will continue to cycle. It implies that all worlds by definition have a finite lifespan. It can be stretched or compressed, but not preserved forever. As far as anyone knows, that is. God here is foreshadowing what yhvh wants in later games. Note how in SJ the restored demiurge doesn't care what world you make, but has a small preference to law. And note how in iva he doesn't even want law. In nocturne, his sole goal seems to be moderating, and staying in control of the system, and making sure that specific worlds have a built in plan to them. What the plan is is secondary.

How would the cycle continue with Hikawa's world? It's stillness forever, no one or nothing doing anything for eternity. Who's gonna invoke the creation again in a world like that?

The conception doesn't just happen when people call it. It happens eventually anyways. Hikawa just realized it was coming, and called it faster in a way that would allow him to prepare for a new world in it.

Well, what it is is that even though the games express this poorly, in mainline the alignments are called what they are because law demons are implied to be the ones with more power, so chaos is not just a different ideology, but it is also the act of rebellion against this power. And it is an intersection between the freedom of rebellion and this new system. In a world designed with that ideology in power as the actual plan of the world, it wouldn't be an act of rebellion. It would just be there. The question then is whether the chaotic would still want it if the system didn't place emphasis on the freedom of rebellion, and simply existed. Or is the difference not really one that matters.

Note how in games like desu, it inverted the sides. Ronaldo was the underdog, and yamato was the structure. Yamato never emphasizes freedom, only hierarchy. So technically the roles can be inverted. Though atlus seems to imply that law leaning ideology by its nature can never be super freedom oriented.

Basically, in mainline the only reason the alignments have the names they do according to atlus is because law is the presiding structure. But this isn't inherently the case. When something else can just be the structure outright those terms aren't used. This might even be the case in a chaotic world. If you watch IVs chaos end, lucifer says "SADLY this new world is filled with chaos." In other words, perpetual chaos isn't necessarily the goal, but is tied to rebellion. The new structure will be a chaos leaning structure, but its still a kind of structure.

this

Anybody playing SMT Liberation?

Your example about Lucifer is really interesting then, because it seems he isn't a "true" representative of chaos as you describe it. He's more concerned with rebellion against an outside force than the act of struggling. Who would you say is the best representative?

>tfw you jizz inside your harpy and she wants you dead now

wtf bros

Well, think of how chaos is depicted in-game. Even though at first glance we assume that it is "about" fallen angels, that is actually not true. Demons like belial, beelzebub, baal, belphegor, etc are not interpreted as fallen angels, but demonized gods. Which is true to their origins even if middle ages demonology thought otherwise. The side of chaos actually has less figures that are meant to be fallen angels than you might think if you actually stop and try to find out which ones are depicted as fallen angels in-game.

This shows the process. In the ancient world, these chaos leaning gods ruled. Over time, more orderly (or neutral gods) began taking power over them, until ultimately yhvh got a position of supreme power. Lucifer then rebelled, bringing a few angels with him, and siding with the old gods of chaos. So those gods in and of themselves are old gods of power. Lucifer is a later addition to their side who specifically represents rebellion.

Most fallen angels in-game aren't the rulers of chaos, but are lesser demons of the fallen race who don't even have plot roles. Major tyrant demons tend to be something else. The major fallen angel story charcters are limited to a few notable examples close to lucifer like lilith and lucifuge.

So that's the interesting point about chaos. Who the rep is for it itself is any strong demon. Because its about those people doing what they want. Lucifer represents the united force of chaos against law. But that only really needs to exist when against law. It would likely erode in a world of chaos itself.

That's a lot of interesting insight from you. Thanks so much. I understand a lot more now.

Should I play Persona 1 and 2?

2 is nonsense but it's fun nonsense

emulate it because battles are frequent and slow unless you have estoma

Are you stupid?

P1 is the greatest game of all time, so yes.

How good are the characters in SMT if... ?

They're not really detailed enough to be called characters. Hazama has the most characterization and he's a fucking annoying baby.

Forgettable/10
They aren't what you can call fleshed out characters. They sort of just narrate shit. Imagine all of them like the Chrono Cross party members who aren't Kid or Serge and thats them except for Reiko,your picture who leaves your ass to be with Hazama effectively making the MC a cuck

Damn... I totally wanted to lez out with her.

But tamaki is a female...

Pretty sure you can also play as a male in SMT if...

>page 9

...

Considering the canon established by Persona Revelations, sure. But that doesn't mean there isn't a male Tamaki.

And Persona 2.

>the only time Abaddon's locusts make an appearance is in Raidou
>In Raidou, they can mnake you really lucky/unlucky
>In the bible, they're giant flying torture machines that will torture you for all of eternity if they can catch, and they're also really relentless
Man Revelations was pretty fucking metal

Still salty you cant fuse your own Destroyers.

But they let you fuse those those shitty Soulless Army goons.

youtube.com/watch?v=y1oCHIF9tQo

>There are people out there who thought this wasn't the best 25th Anniversary track

That's my second favorite.
youtube.com/watch?v=n3mhMcG64qY

Technically the torture machine types are also in Raidou 2. The Apollyons were locust-shaped.

>implying it wasn't this, the remix that took the absolute worst town theme in the entire series and turned it into something amazing

wew, I forgot to post the fucking link BRB suicide
youtube.com/watch?v=tlsT_aNIwGc

The Apollyons in Raidou 2 (at least as far as I can remember and also according the wiki) made people really depressed, they didn't torture people, they were just really scary looking

They have giant sawblades that come out of their faces. And they killed a few people.

Yeah, but a giant bug that kills people isn't as cool as a flying relentless torture machine

>page 10

Makoto's chest seems bigger than usual.

Does Shin Megami Tensei Dx2 have skill inheritance? Please respond or else

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I thought Reiko and Hazama were siblings?

Never really understood the hate for this track. It's so comfy and cute I love it. Not fitting for an SMT game I'm guessing?

If I bought Raidou 1 and Soul Hackers would that lead to good experiences?

She's big enough where it counts.

Raidou 1 is one of those games where everything is good except for the gameplay. Soul Hackers is dated, but pretty fun and has a really great setting.

Probably one of the few here who doesn't outright hate 4A, but Kinshicho's theme sounds like something that belongs in a Pokemon game.

What does /smtg/ think about the If... movie?

What did you expect?

is there porn of brown

I made a Cu Chulainn in Strange Journey and his skills are:
>Grand Tack
>Taunt
>Charge
>Gun Boost
>Gun Pleroma
Wich one of these sources would be better for his final skill? Shooting Spree or Void Elec?

>question mark instead of colon
fuck

The white were right.

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I want to hug the Muh Shuvuu!

I want to breed with her

Are they good escapism?

>Not being an elitist

I bet you're a fucking pleb

I haven't played soul hackers, but Raidou 1 is definitely good escapism. You fight Rasputin in that game and a transformer

>>>/pg/

No.

Shuvuu is for petting only

I'll pet her womb with my dick

started playing DDS2, the first hour of this game is not great

Hey, you. Yes, you!

What megaten game are you playing?

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About to fight Krishna in IV:A.

I wish I had something constructive and thoughtful to say but I'll just beat the dead horse and say great gameplay but shit writing and characters. I set it to apocalypse mode befpre entering the cosmic egg but I guess I made myself too omyspowered as so far I've killed every boss in two tries or less. Hopefully Vishnu-Flynn gives a good challenge.