Violence and Religion

So now that you've been given the suras (not "verses"), how seriously are you taking this refutation of non-violent Islam?

>Quran (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
>Quran (5:80) - "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide."
>Quran (53:29) - "Therefore shun those who turn away from Our Message and desire nothing but the life of this world."
>Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
>Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"
>Quran (9:5) "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Read the whole sura, it talks about the war between muslims and pagans (and this war happened because of the persecution of muslims by pagans, which forced muslims to flee to al madina)
You'd know this if you actually seen a bit gulf history, but no you chose to dump from a random website.

>Quran (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them..."
>Quran (9:23) - "O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers"
read in arabic
1/2

2/2
let me elaborate on the "read in arabic" thing i wrote earlier

"if they take pleasure in faith" means indulging in hedonism/sins (shitty translation)
so it's basically saying don't befriend degenerates

The translation he posted, among other things, also translates to friend when the word is closer to "custodian", "protector", "helper"(and it makes more sense in that context).

>Words mean what I say they mean.

i'm a fucking native arabic speaker and i major in literature

get hammered

take your google translate-tier translation somewhere else

Who cares about the translations and the details - you can't follow the koran without cherrypicking and be a part of modern society

those just go against each other, gods do not exist

>you can't follow the koran without cherrypicking and be a part of modern society
that's not an argument unless you specify exactly what parts that makes quran "incompatible" with a modern society

for example
>YOU CANT FOLLOW THE BIBLE WITHOUT CHERRY PICKING AND BE A PART OF MODERN SOCIETY
Is that an argument? fuck no

Islam is deeply rooted in the Arabic language though, it's why non-Arabic versions of the Qur'an aren't considered to have the divine characteristic in their words. Muslims read the Qur'an in Arabic because that's the way they believe it's supposed to be read, so the issue of translation and the details is a very big one

OP here, explain briefly for me, why are the Sunni and Shi'ite fighting each other ? Also after the war why did they make Israel knowing there would be trouble with jews/muslims right next to each other? Or is there some other reason there is this constant conflict palestine etc.

Christianity had a reformation it had an enlightenment...it has always been able to reform its self

Islam is stuck in the 7th century....

There is no difference between this board and pol any more

What do we describe the muslims who live peacefully in countries like UK for example who integrate normally and don't go full hijab and are fully assimilated maybe 2nd 3rd gen brits? Are these the secular muslims or is it something else like westernised secular islam or something?

oh...so we can't question islam and its bloody history

you must be a liberal, a regressive afraid to criticize islam cause you might be seen as "racist"

you idiots just don't get it do you?

>why are the Sunni and Shi'ite fighting each other ?

Nothing actually religious about this,

Several political reasons :
it's just a leftover from Iraq-Iran war
More border tensions
Sunni locals are disgruntled that Khomeini is sending his "islamic revolution" to neighboring sunni counties

>Also after the war why did they make Israel knowing there would be trouble with jews/muslims right next to each other?
the jews thought they'd be pretty safe because they thought they were protected by the Brits/US (see the massive US aid to israel during 1973 or 6 day war)

NOT AN ARGUMENT
SPECIFY

>for example
>>YOU CANT FOLLOW THE BIBLE WITHOUT CHERRY PICKING AND BE A PART OF MODERN SOCIETY
>Is that an argument? fuck no
fuck yes

sounds like your average "non-practicing" muslims
as in they don't go to prayer and consume alcohol but they draw their strict line in not eating bacon

very common amongst the younger generation

>there are people that think Christianity is violent

does god exist

yes or no

> Christianity
> not being violent

yes, he does.
until atheists actually come with a theory that makes sense, i'll stop believing

the big bang in a nutshell:
>nothing exists, but this nothing once blew up for no reason, and it turned into a world, and this world slowly modified itself for some reason and it created live beings.
wow

specify your arguments or get the fuck out

That's not Christian, that's an appropriation or a pure hoax.

Terrible source.

>yes, he does.
proof?

also, because scientists haven't figured out the big bang, i'll just assume an anthropomorphic guy made it all without explain what's his origin because GAWWWD defies logic

almost everything after the big bang makes perfect sense as a model btw

> everything must have the cause!
> except God because... it isn't like everything must have the cause! XD
Wow! Theism is truly more insightful here.

> crusades
> not christian
> orthodox russia
> not christian
Do we need a list of all heretics killed by your barbaric religion or what?

>GAWWWD
Take your rhetoric elsewhere.

>almost everything after the big bang makes perfect sense as a model btw
Why do you presume logic to be infallible, as if when something makes sense it must be true?
Wow an argument from 800+ years ago that is based on an ancient philosopher.
Those aren't Christian either.

>barbaric
Take your rhetoric elsewhere.

> nothing exists, but this nothing once blew up for no reason
It wasn't literal explosion and there was no nothing before it, but something that with pretty known properties.

we're talking God here
the same entity who can make square circles, and generally defy logic as he likes

>almost everything after the big bang makes perfect sense as a model btw
no it doesn't

if the world actually existed before the big bang, then that would imply that the world existed since eternity, which would defy logic too

your own theories disprove the "logic" you always seem to parrot

>Take your rhetoric elsewhere.
i'm sorry i hurt your feels, atheists are so dumb and mean
>Why do you presume logic to be infallible, as if when something makes sense it must be true?
typical religious gang member

> Those aren't Christian either.
Of course they are. They were literally sanctioned by Pope i.e. the one true christian on the planet.

> Wow an argument from 800+ years ago
That still works because religion doesn't changed in 2000 years. It was destroyed 800+ years ago, and it is destroyed now.

>Is Political Islam always associated with violence?
It shouldn't be. It has many violent aspects, but I would associate it more with oppression than violence.
>Is the use of violence or conflict intrinsic to Islam or religion for that matter?
No. Islam is a unique case though, it was spread specifically through warfare in a very short amount of time, so it necessarily has many themes regarding conflict and violence.

i do get it

you are afraid to criticize islam

>the burden of proof is on atheists, not believers

No wonder you believe in a magical sky daddy, logic and reason are completely foreign to you.

> which would defy logic too
Logic of Biblical Fairy Tales?! Of course! But we know that it is bullshit anyway... No person ever seen how something begin to exist from nothing so eternal existence is absolute logical solution.

good posts

> the same entity who can make square circles, and generally defy logic as he likes
The same entity twho doesn't need to exist to create a world, therefore atheism is as logical as your theistic believes.

t. totally not the same person

This.

>god needs a world to exist
he doesn't
he doesn't even exist on this world

>god is beyond logic and existence

the absolute state of believers

God is in a state of Being/Non-Being
waaaaaaah i cant understand it with my autistic and archaic tools

> God is in a state of Being/Non-Being
Like schroedinger cat?

kek

The last resort of the losing muslim whose quran is being thrown in his face.

>B..b..but you can't know what it REALLY means unless you're a native Arabic speaker!

>Then go on to say the quran is universal, never get the irony, die worshiping satan and end up in hellfire.

>Catholics
>Christians

ffs learn the difference

No, take your pop philosophy somewhere else.

yeah there is. no constant antisemitism, memes and right wing circlejerking and there's actual knowledgable people here.

so many fedoratippers here though

>Nazi Germany
>Christian

Lol

Tbh with you famalam your post looks like a "false flag" b8

>who cares about the translations and the details

Those things are INCREDIBLY important it's why you get Amish and evangelicals

Furthermore it makes sense that you will have trouble reading it in its native language for the above reasons
The bible is similar, unless you know Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic and the historical connontations/contexts of the day

The context is also huge, otherwise you could believe Jesus is a warmongerer here to seperate families physically (when he was clearly referencing how people would react)

I refuse to believe you are not a false flag, your statements are TOO obviously stupid

Also, if it matters and it shouldn't, I'm a Christian and I view Islam as a blight

Literally nobody on this website likes islam it's not just /pol/ that hates it, you can fuck off back to plebbit if you don't like it.

>read in arabic

The Quran is one of the most incoherent books of all time, not even arabic speakers can decipher what the hell anything means even though it says to be perfectly clear.

>There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end. Surah (6:38)

> Say: “Shall I seek for judge other than Allah?—when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail.” They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt. Surah (6:114)

>A Book, the verses are explained in detail—a Qur’an in Arabic, for people who understand Surah (41:3)

Ibn Kathir the greatest of the commentators (I prefer Tabari though) even says this:

> Meaning the allowed, the prohibited, the preferred and the disliked matters. The Qur'an deals with the acts of worship, the obligatory and recommended matters, forbids the unlawful and discourages from the disliked. The Qur'an contains major facts regarding the existence and about matters of the future in general terms or in detail. The Qur'an tells us about the Lord, the Exalted and Most Honored, and about His Names and Attributes and teaches us that Allah is glorified from being similar in any way to the creation. Hence, the Qur'an is.. Surah (12:111)

There's a difference between people being killed by someone who claims to profess Christianity and someone killing people for Christianity. Your pic shows Nazi Germany, yet Hitler didn't believe in Christianity, and it also shows the slave trade, despite the slaves being traded for imperialistic, not Christian, reasons.