Crime and Punishment

Let's talk about Crime and Punishment. Do you think the majority of criminals choose to commit crimes or are put into tough situations that force them to commit crimes?

I myself am a convicted felon, though you wouldn't know it if you had met me. My mother and father were illiterate and by the time I was 13 I was homeless and living on the streets of Miami and spending time in and out of jail, fending for myself. I didn't learn how to read or write until I was 17. My mother was (is) a crack head and my father was murdered when I was 10 in front of our apartment complex over a $20 dice game. That said, I still hold myself accountable for my own actions and once I started doing that I was able to get my life turned around.

Because of all this, I'm curious as to what Veeky Forums thinks about crime and punishment.

Can't we just kill all of the criminals?
That would end all the crimes.

Most criminals choose to commit crimes because it gives them status in their sociteties, and therefore, more access to women.

The best way to fight crime is by restricting female sexuality.

When I was living on my friends couch and robbing taxi cabs I was not thinking about pussy or status.

But I do see what you are saying. However I don't think that's the case at all.

OP you have lived a curious life. What did you do?

Its both. Ultimately the responsibility is on the criminal because your circumstances are no excuse for breaking the law. However, your circumstances often make it easier for you to become misguided and can make crime look more attractive. That being said in a country like the USA you cant be "forced into a life of crime" unless you are literally a hostage or being black mailed. There are both private and federal programs that will give you shelter and food, so "I was starving" is not an excuse here like it is in India or some shit.
And public school is free so everyone is taught the basics of right and wrong. That right there is why I have no sympathy for individual criminals, you were given the resources to improve your life, unfortunate as it is, and you didnt.
However, I do encourage community and federal programs to increase education and programs that help the poor and generally try to prevent people from being in a situation where they rely on crime.

tl;dr ok w/ harsh punishment on crime as long as there are a ton of programs available so the individual clearly had alternate routes.

nice try ISIS

Mature courts and clearly defined laws should allow for a nuanced (or not) judgement of a crime, taking into consideration a persons history and other factors that would have play a factor.

I think the court system here in the Netherlands is okay, albeit a bit soft sometimes. Also locking people up for drugs is fucking retarded

>homeless convicted felon with illiterate crackhead parents
>Miami

Why am I not even shocked? That city should be nuked to hell and back.

>Do you think the majority of criminals choose to commit crimes or are put into tough situations that force them to commit crimes?

Definitely the latter. But "force" is a poor choice of word. They're not forced into it, but it's usually one of the few options available. When you say "criminals," you're talking about people that get arrested for simple drug possession and the like, way too many people are in jail for drugs. Most violent crime certainly seems to be a product of your environment.

tl;dr crime and punishment is fucked in this country.

I find it legit hard to believe people actually commit crimes to feed themselves in first world countries. For a big screen TV and a nice Patek Phillipe yeah, but for food no. So I'd say very few criminals are "forced" to commit crimes the same way a farmer is "forced" to toil the land.

You have no idea how shitty the "ethnic" areas in the US are. Miami is by no means a first world city, it's more similar to Caracas or Santo Domingo than it is to Boston.

It's a bit of both. Most criminals started out of a perceived need, but ultimately you have to have an inclination towards criminality in the first place.

The fact that the average prison inmate is impulsive and low iq suggests some link between being a long-term thinker and avoiding a life of crime.

>The fact that the average prison inmate is impulsive and low iq suggests some link between being a long-term thinker and avoiding a life of crime.
kek.

Well I'm not homeless anymore. Nor do I speak to my mother.

I committed quite a few violent crimes starting from the age of 10 when the older kids made me act as a lookout during some robberies.
Most of the people who were in prison with me that were gang members essentially had no choice because their cousins and fathers and brothers were in gangs. Not joining the gang was the equivalent of the lawyers son not going to law school however the punishment could often be death. Furthermore, some neighborhoods were so unsafe that being in a gang offered a false sense of security. I myself never joined a gang, but in a shitty environment, when your parents are beating on you and there's nothing but old cheetohs to eat at home, someone giving you $50 for being their lookout at the age of 12 means a fucking lot.

I don't want to justify any if my actions though ,because at the end of the day I could have just stayed in school and stayed in the foster system. Look man we're bad but were not that fucking bad. Not anymore at least.

Miami is a catastrophe on par with developing countries. Absurdly high expenses with absurdly low wages, unreal degree of crime, chock full of third world fresh off the boat fucks from Cuba, Haiti, Puerto Rico, Mexico or El Salvador, many of them can't even speak English, the city is literally only 12% white.

Have you ever been to Miami?

>,because at the end of the day I could have just stayed in school and stayed in the foster system
Could you though? Hindsight is 20/20, but did you actually know better as a kid and you just chose to commit crimes instead?

Criminals are fully accountable for their actions but I don't think punishing them out of a sense of justice should really be the point of the justice system. The main objective should be to rehabilitate criminals as necessary except in cases where this doesn't seem to be possible which is what the death penalty should be for.

I also think that society should be segregated according to a non-hereditary caste system and criminality should effect how someone fits into this but that's another matter.

t. brazilian NEET

Yes and no.

I knew that being in a foster home would have been a more ideal situation for a teenager than living in a drug den. At that same token, bouncing dope house to dope house helping the old dudes out who would help you put food in your stomach and clothes on your back and money in your pocket was easier than living with some random old people with 7 other kids you don't know and you'll still have to fight. It made me feel like a man.

> Did you actually know better as a kid?
Are for fucking real user? You think no one in his life ever said crime was bad? Every teacher ever. Every responsible adult ever. Every cartoon ever.

Unfortunately yes.

>responsible adult
Not many in Overtown
>cartoons
Never watched cartoons until I was in juvie
>teachers
Weren't getting money in the streets. Werent putting food in my stomach. Hind sight being 20/20 would I listen to them? Of course. At the time why would I when the drug dealer next door had what ever he wanted and I didn't even have a TV or lucky charms at home.

He already responded, but there's a difference between knowing something and being told something. Kids frequently do stupid shit because they have the idea in their heads that they have everything figured out and the adults don't know what they're talking about.

Thats no excuse. You knew what you were doing was wrong. I know the situation you were born into is not your fault. I know its difficult for a kid to do the right thing because of the temptation you just mentioned. But there is not much more that anyone can do for you in that situation. You had the resources and social programs to stay out of the streets but you didnt. Your parents are really to blame but at the end the buck stops with you.

The truth is no one does anything bad for the sake of being evil. Everyone is out to get "theirs" or "just trying to get easy money." Either that or they have a mental illness. These circumstance are important so that the state offers alterantives but no one can force you to take them.

There is a difference between understanding and knowing. If you tell someone not to step in a pit and they do it anyway, its not because they didnt know not to step in the pit.
I know child psychology very well, it doesnt excuse the actions tho it just makes them commonplace unfortunately.

Criminals still have free will and agency. Only a small proportion of poor people commit crime. It is no excuse.

Criminals are usually morally bankrupt and possess a low IQ.

Also, crime requires punishment. Not because of any utilitarian argument, but because when you commit a crime you deserve - morally speaking - to suffer.

Low tier criminals (which I assume is what you're trying to discuss here) tend to come from broken families and ares where crime related aesthetics and lifestyle is propagated and praised among the youth. Some become petty criminals out of necessity, others chose more complicated methods as to acquire power, respect, and women. Their view is that of hedonistic materialism. This is a generalization of course. Many factors play into this but I think the general outline given here is accurate.

Concerning ''crime & punishment''; a crime is a crime, and the various systems of the world have seen to it to bring about varying degrees of punishment or ''rehabilitation''.

Personally I don't care, but I do think that most criminals can not be ''rehabilitated'' and that in the end it's their own fault.

All crimes should be punishable by death, even if it's as insignificant as stealing a potato.

What were your thoughts about the victims of your crimes?
Did you feel guilty, or not consider them at all?